ArmA 2 I/O analysis results

[Tobie 10]

i thought about buying a SSD. but now ive seen this. what is faster and cheaper? ram disk or SSD?

[PuFu 4591]

Also... It would be nice if someone of community could find explanation why buildings in Arma 2 are such a fps killer.

As stated in other threads, and confirmed by BIS developers, the impact on FPS is not directly related to Polycount, but rather the amount of sections a model is using (textures materials etc...). Which translates in the game loading up textures from your hdd (pretty straight forwards and simplistic explanation)

Since there is no MLODs for A2, no one can confirm it, but my 2 cents is this: the section count on the buildings are way larger than most units...I guess one could just look over the amount of textures in a pbo file to find what the real reason is....

BTW: great amount of info there mate!

[Pappy60 10]

i am not able to use sym links on winXP using hardlinkshellextender. hardlinks just work inside one ntfs volume. i cannot create a link from my ram-disk to my harddisk (both ntfs). anyone got that working on xp?

Actually on XP , you need to move the files into a mod folder and then junction to the mod folder from your ram drive, I did it but did not see a significant performance increase...I am going to play with it again today and see where I land....

I also tried putting the paging file in the ramdrive with no increase in performance....

One other note, if you are doing it as mod folder, you will not be able to play on servers that don't allow mods...which is an issue for me.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Okay, implemented the partial ram drive that LiquidPinky described and got it done properly with a Junction to mod folder containing the heavy files. (the only way to do it in XP) This TOTALLY REMOVED THE STUTTER ! I am flying a helo at native res of 1920x1050 and FPS in country of 60 and in towns around 25 is the lowest but still no stutter at all, very smooth!

Now the bad news, MP on my server still stutters...actually worse than it did before (because I have higher graphic settings now?) And of course since I am running the ramdrive as a mod folder, I had to turn off signatures on my server, and this means that I cannot play on other servers that do require mod signatures.

So the question begs....do I need to put the MP folder in my ramdrive as well to increase the performance of MP ?

Edited October 18, 2009 by Pappy60
ramdrive update

[thr0tt 12]

I would like to see how original unpatched ArmA 1 deals with it as I think this way of streaming was added in a much later patch, that would determine if this a design decision to get performance for some and effect other in a more diverse way like the graphical corruption type issues.

[.kju 3240]

> significant performance increase

This is not about FPS. It is about micro stutters and time length it takes to load different

resolution LODs and mipmaps (textures).

> i'm in a jet going really low and fast

Disable clutter and you wont see the problem.

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

Fantastic analysis, thank you for this!

People should really test their HDD speed, easy tool for this is HDTach.

http://lee.plankton.ch/A2_HDTACH_VelociRaptor_Raid.jpg

Screen shows the performance of my Velociraptor SATA Raid0.

MfG Lee

my test, same single HDD, no raid setup. :lecture:

[tcp 10]

I understand the RAMdisk is more reliable, but Windows does the file caching, ArmA doesn't need to support it. How big was your cache set to and which files were being cached (some files MUST have been in cache).

[whisper 0]

And of course since I am running the ramdrive as a mod folder, I had to turn off signatures on my server, and this means that I cannot play on other servers that do require mod signatures.

This is wrong. The addons you have put in your RAMDrive addon folder are signed by BI, and the BI key is in every dedicated server, so you will never be kicked because of this modfolder, and you can reactivate the signatures on your own server

[tcp 10]

Just make sure you copied the associated BISIGN along with each PBO. You can be kicked for missing signatures files, not banned though.

Although its expensive to put quality, matching RAM into our system, if we were to do it externally with less expensive RAM it would be more feasible. Forget SSD, and start collecting DDR2 RAM. They are manufacturing SATA interfaces for RAMdisk drives: http://techreport.com/articles.x/16255

[qwertz 10]

I understand the RAMdisk is more reliable, but Windows does the file caching, ArmA doesn't need to support it. How big was your cache set to and which files were being cached (some files MUST have been in cache).

Hey tcp, pls read the original post here - all the read access to the PBO files use the IRP_NOCACHE flag. That means that Windows caching is DISABLED for the A2 streams.:(

"In the NT operating system, user processes are allowed to specify at the time of opening a file whether data for the file should be buffered in memory. Only those files opened without the IRP_NOCACHE flag—to indicate that data for the file can be buffered—have their data cached in system memory." http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:K93j3a6BdPQJ:zhainan.kilu.de/FileSystem/Chapter6.pdf+IRP_NOCACHE&cd=110&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Edited December 31, 2009 by qwertz

[jw custom 56]

Just make sure you copied the associated BISIGN along with each PBO. You can be kicked for missing signatures files, not banned though.

Although its expensive to put quality, matching RAM into our system, if we were to do it externally with less expensive RAM it would be more feasible. Forget SSD, and start collecting DDR2 RAM. They are manufacturing SATA interfaces for RAMdisk drives: http://techreport.com/articles.x/16255

Thanks for the link, interesting article :cool:

[Colossus 2]

Forget SSD, and start collecting DDR2 RAM. They are manufacturing SATA interfaces for RAMdisk drives: http://techreport.com/articles.x/16255

Thank you. Quite interesting article I might say. Not to mention Latest News Stories "Saturday science subject: Placebo" :p

But back to the original test. Would caching in future BI products be possible, if that any means it actually can have a benefit?

Edited October 18, 2009 by colossus

[tcp 10]

I did read the original post. I just didn't know ArmA has it disabled, which is different from saying it's not supported.

I respect your work. However, it's being treated as a viable solution to ArmA2 performance problems when only less than 10% of the ArmA2 players can fully implement it. Can the game really only run well on top-of-the-line hardware? If you don't explore alternative methods to deal with this bottleneck, you're going to alienate a lot of players. The game can't afford to be considered anymore elite than it already is.

Edited October 18, 2009 by tcp

[KeyCat 131]

here's the results of a few hours of analysis (I will just post them and comment later/tomorrow in detail) - very interesting findings:

<snip>

I haven't had enough time (yet) to read everything here (nor in the old thread) but I just wanted to say thanks to qwertz for compiling and posting this info!

That means that Windows caching is DISABLED for the A2 streams.:(

I probably just show my lack of knowledge here but I don't get it? What would be the benefit to not enabling cache in a streaming engine like ArmA II's (except for lower RAM usage)?

/KC

Edited October 19, 2009 by KeyCat

[Dwarden 1124]

Just make sure you copied the associated BISIGN along with each PBO. You can be kicked for missing signatures files, not banned though.

Although its expensive to put quality, matching RAM into our system, if we were to do it externally with less expensive RAM it would be more feasible. Forget SSD, and start collecting DDR2 RAM. They are manufacturing SATA interfaces for RAMdisk drives: http://techreport.com/articles.x/16255

it's nice piece of hardware totally degraded by use of SATA2 interface ...

at best it have 2 connectors with 385 MB maximum

in short it cost more than SSD and it's nearly as slow ...

the two slot variant is extremely expensive and even the single slot one is still to expensive

only usable external ramdrive would be if 4-16x PCIexpress card used (ofcourse support running even in 1x) or HT port ...

so all in all best is plug 4x4GB or 3x8GB into your system and back it up with SSD for OS :)

Intel SSD on 32nm process are way better price / performance / power demand / size choice ...

Edited October 19, 2009 by Dwarden

[ModeZt 0]

what about server performance?

does the server suffer from the same kind of hdd limitations?

[-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0]

correct me if I am wrong, but the graphics aren't being processed by the server, thus the streaming is not being done, and a negative on your question...

I can run the server exe and join it running the client exe on the same rig, if both were streaming the terrain my computer would catch on fire. :computer:

[tcp 10]

it's nice piece of hardware totally degraded by use of SATA2 interface ...

at best it have 2 connectors with 385 MB maximum

in short it cost more than SSD and it's nearly as slow ...

the two slot variant is extremely expensive and even the single slot one is still to expensive

only usable external ramdrive would be if 4-16x PCIexpress card used (ofcourse support running even in 1x) or HT port ...

so all in all best is plug 4x4GB or 3x8GB into your system and back it up with SSD for OS :)

Intel SSD on 32nm process are way better price / performance / power demand / size choice ...

Yea, I mistakenly thought SATAII was 3GB/s when sadly its only 3Gbits or 384 megabytes.

The problem is DDR3 RAM is at least $200 a piece for a single 4GB stick.

Edited October 19, 2009 by tcp

[BCA Cat Toaster 10]

Very interesting Analysis qwertz! Nice work!

To be clear for those who said or might think it: A SSD-Drive isn´t a solution at all (for ArmA2). If you compare qwertz´s VelociRaptor Kamikaze-RAID I/O-Values with those of a Samsung PBJ-22 256GB SSD you see superior values for the SSD of course but you are still not able to go from the Countryside to Chernogorks or Elekrozavodsk without that massive stuttering, no matter if you walk, drive or fly. So a RAM-Drive might be the only solution to get rid of that.

Add a Radeon 5870 and an E8600 @ 4GHz with 8GB DDR3-RAM and I´m still not able to get more than 20fps in 1920x1200 with minimum AA and normal object detail in those cities, even if I stand still with little Streaming-Activity at all the engine sucks delivering performance. So if you get rid off one bottleneck you´re just facing the next. What is it worth to remove the stuttering if you can´t play in cities anyway with the same settings you just had 60fps with on the countryside without lowering the details?

If you have that amount of RAM and don´t use it anyway it´s worth a try but no one should consider buying a SSD or more RAM just for ArmA2 in my opinion.

[afp 1]

I belive its BIS job to provide an auto-cache mechanism or whatever is needed to provide a smoother game. All of us are tired trying all sort of optimisations.

Maybe a system performance auto-detection should be added and most of settings should be automatically configured for best performance-quality balance.

I see no point in having "super vegetation no other game has" when most of us disable it... Sometimes I regret the simple rotating texture grass old games use to have, where you could both hide and shoot throught...

[qwertz 10]

Hi guys,

I have pimped my analysis tool a little so that everyone can download and use it to easily analyze his/her own ArmA 2 disk performance.

I am not a programmer so this is one large Excel file. It includes all instructions, and the process is rather simple (read the instructions carefully though).

If you use it, It would be great if you guys would share the results here in the forum so we can all learn more.

Here's the download link to the file (NEW VERSION 0.21 - should work with everyone's data now):

http://www.mediafire.com/qwertz

Please let me know what you think, i.e. if there are any problems with the tool.

Have fun,

qwertz

Edited December 31, 2009 by qwertz

[whisper 0]

I belive its BIS job to provide an auto-cache mechanism or whatever is needed to provide a smoother game.

It is indeed

[zaira 10]

Point is, if u have i7 1366 u can buy 6x2GB for 240$ and 12 GB is more than enough for whole ARMA2 in ram (and that is for people who are buying whole new system).

And most people who have i7 1366 already have some RAM instaled so they need invest, like 100$ to fill al their slots up.

This realy isnt so expensive as you might tihink in first place.

And u can use it for more aplications than just arma2.

[Pappy60 10]

Just make sure you copied the associated BISIGN along with each PBO. You can be kicked for missing signatures files, not banned though.

Thanks , I did not not realize the bisign were the signature files (duh) I will put them in the ram drive as well.

I have a stutter free game now in SP, but I am thinking I need to move the MP folder to my ramdrive as well, as the stuttering returns on MP game play...

short distance painting is still an issue though, while annoying it doesn't really hamper my ability to play...I read in one of the posts that I should disable "clutter" is that a setting in my profile?

[reilar 10]

Hi guys,

I have pimped my analysis tool a little so that everyone can download and use it to easily analyze his/her own ArmA 2 disk performan.

I am not a programmer so this is one large Excel file. It includes all instructions, and the process is rather simple (read the instructions carefully though).

If you use it, It would be great if you guys would share the results here in the forum so we can all learn more.

Here's the download link to the file:

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=97f7ee7f2d29be9a90a82c7bb0fad7ade04e75f6e8ebb871

Please let me know what you think, i.e. if there are any problems with the tool.

Have fun,

qwertz

Very nice thread!

I've tested your analyse tool but don't get it to work.

The "PBO Analysis" sheet doesn't show anything other than default values in the "Ranked by PBO name" chart. The other two charts are empty.

I get a graph showing IOPS which seem to cover the time interval of data I've pasted in the Data Input sheet. The other two graphs don't show anything though.

You seemed to have password procted the forumulas in the sheets so I cannot find the problems in the formulas by myself.

Maybe the formulas are dependent on local (I'm living in Sweden)?

Also the import of the CSV-file maybe should be done in some special way. Can you be more specific on how you import the file into excel.