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Helicopter CONTROLS


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#1 Vlad_13

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 20:15

Hi, decided to register, I would like to put some of my input to this game.

This game became very interesting to me as soon as i saw the gunships! Because I'm a huuuuuge hElo lover :yay: Anyway I got 200+ hours in flying a hElo in BF2 and 100+ in 2142, played almost avery helicopter sim you can find, including DCS Ka-50 Black Shark So seeing this game with gunships in action was an insta buy for me! But when i got the game i was not so happy with the Helicopter controls...

1st and main Turning. Why turning in helicopter in Arma 2 is not allowed? You only get a brief moments at the start when you can turn the bird to left and right when you are hoovering or minimal speed... After few seconds turning gets switched to "roll" where did my "turn" go??? all of a sudden it rolls? wtf
Don't tell me this is a sim... or w/e Helicopters can turn in real life ;) Can you imaging if they couldn't? lol that's why there is a back rotor and with increasing/decreasing rpm on it hElo turns to left/right accordingly.

2nd thing... all of the helicopters are on ice scating? I know you get a speed from the main rotor, tilt nose down and there ya go, but when you want to stop gee... i'm on ICE floating with my unbelievable inertia... Dont really care about this i can manage with this game mechanics, main thing is turning...



Hopefully a dev will read this, I'm sure this is easy to fix.

Regards,
Vlad.

Edited by Vlad_13, 28 June 2009 - 21:09.


#2 Spec_Ops_Sniper

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 20:42

*FACE PALM*



The game simulates the fact that at high speed the rudder has higher authority, however here is your problem, your not using a joystick.

with the key board its useless, unless you ar using a joy stick then you should check the controls.

Oh and for the 2nd thing try and tilt the nose back..... LOL

#3 Vlad_13

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 21:08

Logitech 3D Pro, sorry forgot to mention... Controls are manually set/configured also ;) You think i would go fly on preset controls? right..

Like I said I don't really care about #2, its game mechanics... But #1 "turn" gets switched to "roll" also pedals are disabled at that instance too... is something needs to be done.

Edited by Vlad_13, 28 June 2009 - 21:10.


#4 Spec_Ops_Sniper

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 21:11

Oh hmmm
odd. All works fine for me.Are you tilting and pulling back on the stick that s how you turn in RL in a helo going 200, remeamber rudder authority is lost over 90 speed but there should be some rudder left.

#5 Vlad_13

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 21:18

In 200 yes... but not 20-40... "turn" gets switched to "roll" automatically... unless you come to a complete stop then it magically returns...

Have you tried pointing a guner at a target with these controls? It is impossible... cuz there are no turn just roll, magically got switched/off.

#6 Steaksauce1337

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 21:56

the faster a chopper goes the more it behaves like a fixed wing aircraft and the tail rotor has little authority.. you stated yourself that when you slow down you are able to turn. The problem is not the game or joystick.... or control mappings....

#7 Frederf

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 22:02

Your controls should look like this:

Right Turn: Not bound
Left Turn: Not bound
Right Roll: Joystick +X
Left Roll: Joystick -X
Right Pedal: Joystick -Z Rot
Left Pedal: Joystick +Z Rot

The "Right Turn" and "Left Turn" commands are BOOBY TRAPS FOR NOOBS. You do not want to use them! This game is from the same Czechoslovakians that think "Ltn." is the abbreviation for Lieutenant and "Fall Back" is another way of saying "Return to formation."

#8 Bascule42

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 22:48

Nothing wrong with either the flight controls or using a keyboard for flying the helicopters. If you want your gunners to shoot from the side mounts, perhaps flying straight towards them and expecting to get a good position at 100m while doing 200kmp/h, (or is it mph? <shrug>) isn't the best way to do it.

Say your target is directly to the north of you, don't fly north all the way in, about 250-400m away, start to bank say about 15 degrees the left, so you heading is 335, (or NNE), then fly in a wide arc around your target. Make full use of the free look too, (double tap left alt), to check for new targets etc. Obviously, you can go to the right, and go heading 025, or NNW.

As for landing. Flare, ( pull your nose up to about 45 degrees for a fast brake) the heli at about 200m from your landing spot, while holding down the z key, or I suppose on a stick it would be dropping the throttle. Decreasing the collective anyway. You will still rise up a bit, but if you hold the heli at a 45 degree angle with the nose up, it will soon slow down. Then level off when your speed drops to around 30. Then you can always pitch back slightly to come to a halt. A good tip for landing is to do the emergency landing part of the helicopter Boot Camp mission.

Edited by Bascule42, 28 June 2009 - 22:53.

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#9 galzohar

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 22:49

I wish all controls in this game (and not just helo controls) would get a proper description... At least in the manual but preferably in game! I had to re-do a lot of keybindings once I found out what they actually do, which wasn't anywhere near what I imagined based on their description.
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#10 DieterWeber

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Posted 28 June 2009 - 22:52

C and X turn while flying.

#11 Vlad_13

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 00:13

Your controls should look like this:

Right Turn: Not bound
Left Turn: Not bound
Right Roll: Joystick +X
Left Roll: Joystick -X
Right Pedal: Joystick -Z Rot
Left Pedal: Joystick +Z Rot

The "Right Turn" and "Left Turn" commands are BOOBY TRAPS FOR NOOBS. You do not want to use them! This game is from the same Czechoslovakians that think "Ltn." is the abbreviation for Lieutenant and "Fall Back" is another way of saying "Return to formation."



FINELY! Now this works! Thanks you :yay:

#12 Frederf

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:03

Just to clarify, "Right Turn" and "Left Turn" are weird hybrid control that try to make one joystick axis do what should take two joystick axes by switching from yaw authority to bank authority based on speed.

#13 Teddybear1

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 09:24

;)Can someone please make a .dat file for X52 combo?
very greateful if you would.....
Teddybear 1 out.;)

#14 AJsarge

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 15:39

You're all missing the pink elephant in the room. The freaking cyclic. You press one button to go up, one to go down. If you don't it sits there. And the airplanes are a pain to taxi with as you can't set your thrust to a certain level, and instead have to move in bursts.

Analog thrust control please. None of this "accelerating" stuff. It's a basic principle that got glossed over when it shouldn't have.

I think that that takes more precedence over something that is already up to par (though not quite perfect)

#15 Frederf

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 19:55

"Throttle" in ArmA2 is speed-based for airplanes and altitude-based for helicopters instead of the more obvious and real "thrust" or "engine power" that it should be, yes.

#16 chopper.uk

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 23:35

i agree rudder controls need sorting out had every heli sim goin this is not good it is also the reason i bought the game in the first place

#17 Sabrefox

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 04:50

So, let me get this right, there are two posters complaining that with all their wisdom and experience of virtually flying Helicopters in different games (BF Helicopters are nothing like the real thing, they were dumbed right down for ease of use) they feel that BIS have got it wrong?

Arma II is not perfect, though the helicopter flight model is fairly accurate. This is expected from a 'jack of all trades' simulator rather than a specific flight /infantry /vehicle simulator.

What is actually being complained about is the actual realistic way a helicopter flies, it is obvious that you have not experienced a realistic helicopter flight model, other than DCS Black Shark, and that helicopter is an exception, in its typical Kamov co-axial rotor design it uses a rudder control surface which allows for higher manouverability at speed.

The problem is not with the flight model in Arma II, it is with your misunderstanding of an accurate flight model through the experience of games rather than simulators on the whole.

Take time out and clock up some hours in the editor and give the helicopter some respect and assume you do not know it all and you will be all the more satisfied when you master it.

Learn, adapt and enjoy. :)

Edited by Sabrefox, 30 June 2009 - 04:59.


#18 Frederf

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 05:06

I think you can stow that attitude Sabrefox. I'm a pilot, physicist, and I've used some of the better simulator games. I can separate the B.S. from the truth pretty well.

The OP was being ambushed by BIS's "Rollbank axis" that switches modes from yaw to bank as speed increases. It's a real wTF-er if you know flying inside our or are very new. To either party it's just hugely unnatural and to people that know flying, completely unexpected. That was pretty much the majority of the problem addressed by this thread.

The rest of the flight model for helicopters isn't too bad. The big issues are yaw authority vs speed and the collective. The helicopters only deserve a marginal amount of respect since the coding that went into them is only marginally respectable.

P.S. Adding a smiley at the end of your controversial post is akin to flipping someone the middle finger. Don't do it again.

#19 Sabrefox

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 06:52

Ah, a fellow pilot.

I hope you enjoyed expressing your opinion as much as I did. :)

Edited by Sabrefox, 30 June 2009 - 07:05.


#20 nzjono

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 10:09

C and X turn while flying.




Ditto that C and X buttons, its very easy and very contollable. this give no roll what so ever, what on earth are you on about Vlad 13, you are obviously using the wrong controls. People really shouldnt post up complaints if they havent even bothered to read the manual.

Helicopter flies fine with even mouse and keyboard. I fly solo with manual fire all the time and do very well. I prefer the mouse and keyboard than a joystick for the helis in this, you have more precise small movement control once you get the hang of it.