Jump to content

Photo
- - - - -

Flashlights on the guns?


  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic
Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#1

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:00

Never in OFP or Arma has there been any implementation of tactical lights on the guns. While I realize the Army and Marines are mostly using NVGs instead, this isn't quite the same. For once, lights would give you broader field of view, in other contrast/colors.

In Stalker (I know it's not a tactical shooter, but pretty awesome game) the light also adds a lot of atmosphere in otherwise totally dark nights.

So, lets have player-flashlights, the graphics engine obviously can handle vehicle headlights just fine.

Killerwatt
Killerwatt

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 405 posts

#2

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:09

Isn't that a bit like holding a "Shoot at this point" neon sign wherever you go?
Cheers,
Stewart.
__________________

And do not you realize we are very community oriented company, we support modding as much as we can and that we are not going change in this approach as this is what we like the most about our work?
Marek Spanel - CEO www.bistudio.com

Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#3

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:17

If you use it indoors, no. If you use it outdoors - might be, might not, depending on the situation. It's not as stealthy as NVGs, but - for example for guerillas and less-well equipped soldiers - it's more realistic.

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#4

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:21

Maybe on ASG *bling bling* meetings.
There's noone stupid enought to use flashlight beams, cause they're ineffective at the distances bigger than 5meters, and they're threat to the carrier. Poorly equipped soldiers would rather throw a torch toward enemy position instead of being a torch in dark by themselves.
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#5

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:37

Yeah, I guess all those companies selling tactical flashlights for gun mounting are just stupid, right? After all, you guys here know everthing and no one ever uses those.

Just that nobody told the Marine on this picture (second one) who uses a Surefire light.
http://www.spareammo...category/ar-15/

Wait a minute, aren't we modelling Marines in this game? What a coincidence.

A bit less arrogance when commenting other people's ideas might be a good thing.

Edited by Helmut_AUT, 04 June 2009 - 11:39.


dm
dm

    Major

  • Members
  • 7876 posts

#6

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:38

There's noone stupid enought to use flashlight beams, cause they're ineffective at the distances bigger than 5meters, and they're threat to the carrier.


Its interesting then that the US Army and Marine Corps and various other armed forces use both visual and IR illuminators almost daily (or should that be nightly...) in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Do a bit of research and you'll find they're actually quite effective out to 30m+ more than enough in an urban environment.

Better to see and be seen, than not to see at all...

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#7

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:49

IR frequency is out of reach by taliban forces. But flashlights on guns? Srsly, review your source. They're mounted only for special needs, not combat-wise. Yes, they use visual lightning for navigating in dark, but whenever it's safe because it's needed to perform usual tasks. Otherwise, if they use bundled flashlights in firefights, that would mean they deployed very dumb youngsters there.
Mounting a flashlight to a gun is not for combat purpose! (unless you consider searching drawers as combat activity)
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#8

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:51

Obviously then the Israeli Forces also deploy "very dumb youngsters":
http://farm3.static....4e9f48f.jpg?v=0

Do some legwork and search Google for "Surefire M16" or a similar combo you will find quite a few images of Army guns with flashlights attached, and if we're talking about SpecOps/Law Enforcement you find even more.

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#9

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:53

Can you provide a photo with someone *USING* that flashlight, especially in firefight my master? It would really help, to have that photo taken _AT NIGHT_.
I can't deny, that having a normal light is handy, and IR-light is even useful in combat. But please, don't say bullshit like this visal light emitter is vital in any combat mode, except blinding at close range suspects in policing (note the difference between police and military)

Edited by sidhellfire, 04 June 2009 - 11:56.

Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

maxter
maxter

    Corporal

  • Members
  • 95 posts

#10

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:55

It's a fact that mounted flashlights are quite common, then just let the player decide if and when to use it or not, you can't deny it would be a realistic addition.
Posted Image

Balschoiw
Balschoiw

    Bavarian Battlesmurf

  • Members
  • 6856 posts

#11

Posted 04 June 2009 - 11:58

But flashlights on guns? Srsly, review your source.

We´ve also used maglites in the miles fitting on the G3 back in the days, especially for checkpoint duty and house-searching.
My source: Reality.
For the G36 there´s a surefire module that´s also used.

Edited by Balschoiw, 04 June 2009 - 12:04.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Online 1.08 face reference gallery
UPDATED ! My interim musicspace with excerpts from commercial productions UPDATED !
NOTE to 1.08 users who have missing weapons: Remove custom addons !

dm
dm

    Major

  • Members
  • 7876 posts

#12

Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:09

But flashlights on guns? Srsly, review your source.


My source is active duty Marines and Soldiers, how about you?

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#13

Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:24

We´ve also used brain back in days.
My source are non-active soldiers. (Alive ones)
Before we run towards penis comparison you realise you both are missing something, don't you?
Don't bother checking militaryphotos.net, couldn't find a clue of usage of these.
Let me ask Helmut one thing - would you turn on your magnificent flashlight in night time if you were searching for armed enemy? Would you ever consider turning that shit on if you knew that he's somewhere near in dark?
I don't give a damn on implementing a one big "shoot me" sign, which would be useless anyway, into the game, but just can't stand that moronic statement that they are needed anyhow. And claims, that they're effective on lighting up targets that are 30m away are fantasy stories, or they're lighting up terrorists in safety vests.
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#14

Posted 04 June 2009 - 12:45

The reason you won't find pictures where they are used might be that it's generally hard to take pictures when it's dark (I photograph for military magazines, I should know).

Would you rather walk into a house at night and search for an enemy using a NVG that restricts your FOV down to maybe 60 degrees, as in the game? Or risk the goggles shutting you blind when you step into a room with a light on? Not to mention that the NVGs I have worn were terrible blurry on objects close up.

Obviously these flashlights have their tactical applications, not 300m firefights in the fields, but Arma does simulate a lot more than that. After all in Arma2 we now even have shot guns.

Besides, a most curious observation which is quite regulary found when making game suggestions: Why are people against something that is OPTIONAL? How exactly will it disturb your game if BIS implements the code for some weapons to have flashlights? Will you be forced to use them?

Edited by Helmut_AUT, 04 June 2009 - 12:47.


sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#15

Posted 04 June 2009 - 13:39

Because in contrary to most of "I wanna this one, please" players I am aware of fact, that some things are more important, and some are just waste of time, at least at that stage.
I've seen many photos and videos taken at night. None with that silly flashlight mounts. In fact, no one bothers quality when he has an opportunity to record something, that he came for.
You say that it won't take much time. Check then: http://dev-heaven.ne...ects/cis/issues and notice that most of things are "easy to implement/fix".
The author of "fast rope" thread also said that it's "easy to implement". Was that anywhere near "needed at all"?
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

Balschoiw
Balschoiw

    Bavarian Battlesmurf

  • Members
  • 6856 posts

#16

Posted 04 June 2009 - 14:27

Because in contrary to most of "I wanna this one, please" players I am aware of fact, that some things are more important, and some are just waste of time, at least at that stage.

Since when are you the one to decide things at BIS ?
Just because you are not aware of the useage of flashlights in a combat scenario it doesn´t mean that it´s not there. It is there for multiple useage.
Arma 2 is meant to be a Milsim that covers a variety of scenarios. Modern warfare also includes housesearching and checkpoint duty. Just because you in you holiness do not value this means that we all have to think your way just to please you ?
You know shit of todays combat duties but you tell others that you are the originator of ultimate truth.
Eat it with a spoon: Infantery units DO use Surefire modules on a regular base and it would be a nice addition to have them ingame.
If YOU like that or not is not in anyone´s interest as your military knowlegde seems to be somewhat limited anyway.
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Online 1.08 face reference gallery
UPDATED ! My interim musicspace with excerpts from commercial productions UPDATED !
NOTE to 1.08 users who have missing weapons: Remove custom addons !

Thread Starter
Helmut_AUT
Helmut_AUT

    Gunnery Sergeant

  • Members
  • 431 posts

#17

Posted 04 June 2009 - 14:37

Nothing to add for what Balshoiw said. This is a suggestions board, being jumped for suggesting some realistic equipment addons is insane.

BTW, just tested some more of the game - and I could swear that at least some rifles already have the flashlights on the 3d model. Check the camouflaged M4 with holo sight and M203 for example, what's that on it's left side of the barrel?

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#18

Posted 04 June 2009 - 14:52

This is discussion board above all, and I feel right to question suggestions here.
You don't realise, that usage of these is very limited, and consequences of that feature would result in mostly tons of players ruining the MP experience by being a running lantern and beaming up others in group? Your mind capacities seems to be somewhat limited anyway Balschoiw. Go check, if it does work with attachTo command if it does, you've wasted enough time already if not, try to at least convince me I'm wrong.
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.

FlexCopMNPD
FlexCopMNPD

    Private First Class

  • Members
  • 26 posts

#19

Posted 04 June 2009 - 16:19

I for one would love to see the weapons mounted flashlights modeled into arma2 by someone (doesn't necessarily need to be BIS). If you look closely at a lot of pictures of military weapons with mounted illumination devices a good many of them have flip up IR filters installed.

I can tell you from REAL WORLD experience, both military (going on my 12th year of service with 8 of those being USMC Infantry) and civilian Law Enforcement (going on my 13th there) that the light as a tactical option has almost unlimited usage possibilities. With the high powered lighting systems on the market now combined with the IR filters you can dramatically increase your view distance and hence your engagement range at night. And the tactical advantages of blinding/dazzling your opponent at night goes without saying.

Hell, they are even mounting light systems capable of both visible and IR illumination on vehicle mounted weapons systems.

I guess everyone else has it wrong, right?
What you cant see WILL kill you

Posted Image

sidhellfire
sidhellfire

    Staff Sergeant

  • Members
  • 339 posts

#20

Posted 04 June 2009 - 16:57

Unfortunately.
Posted Image
Sarge: Get over here! Give me a boost!
Caboose: Ok.
Caboose runs up
Caboose:You are a good person -- and people say nice things about you.
Sarge: Not a morale boost, moron, a physical one. I need to see what's in that window.
Caboose: That window is very high. I don't think you are tall enough.
Sarge: I know. I need you to help me look through it.
Caboose: I don't think I am tall enough either. Also, my head is round. That window is square.