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maxqubit
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#1

Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:08

Having played xbox and 360 since the release, and never touched a pc game since (mainly because of my game/pc setup at home) i finally resurrected my (music)pc to run pc games on a decent table near the digital piano. This all in prep for the coming ArmA (only need a proper gfx card).

Now, i'm not converted to pc gaming but i installed OFP:GOTY and even on my midrange pc with shitty gfx card it runs fine.

Then i noticed of course the mission editor, and yes that is mucho better equiped than the elite editor, so on pc you can pratically create everything you think of. It is a programmer/gamers heaven (as i see it now)

Onto the mods, and again i was surprised how much mod can improve vanilla OFP. I'm now using WGL mod and this makes things very realistic (that's what i like).

Sooo, now i'm in a good position to enjoy ArmA.

---

Well i played 'Clean Sweep' on pc and xbox. 'Clean Sweep' single mission is EXACTLY the same on both.

The hires and viewdistance things are great on pc, but Elite has the much more 'living' environment (waves, grass, bees) and this is just miles better then pc. For the 'living' environment pc gamers really have to play ArmA.

Now, because of this grass if you spot 3-4 enemy soldiers and you dive to the ground this grass is partly blocking your view! (and little bees are there to annoy or relax you:) ... this 'blocked view' reduces gameplay speed ... gameplay tends to get slower!

Mouse & Keyboard? I found that in fact mouse & keyboard makes the gameplay faster. Compare the 2 and you almost think pc is more 'arcade' ... Well THAT is not the case but i still have the impression aiming with the controller is MORE REALISTIC (in terms of speed/handling) than aiming with the mouse. If i'm confronted with 4 enemies it is much easier/quicker to kill them with the mouse than with the controller. It feels a bit like a Clint Eastwood Spagetti Western. Imho(!) the aiming with the mouse is too easy, even with WGL mod.

Moving, navigating (esp. INSIDE buildings) and looking around with the mouse is better
Flying is beter with the controller (especially turning the helo and stuff)
Shooting by using the right trigger (and breath holding) is of course better with controller

So, because aiming is better with controller but moving is better with mouse + keyboard you get a mixed feeling. Sniping 4 enemies feels 'better' in Elite (cause you ain't moving) but CQB is mucho better with PC because you move/look heavily.

All in all, in 'slow' mission you could prefer the controller, but i hectic 'fast' missions (where the enemy could be everywhere) the mouse+keyboard would be a better match to reality because you look around heavily.

Of course a device like TrackIR on PC (or console?) could change things a bit

---

All in all, i'm impressed what 'old OFP' still can do (and it does some things much better than Elite), but Elite has a few good points over the pc version.

But the idea is that ArmA will surpass all ... esp. when some great mods are implemented on top of ArmA

---

So, i 'decided' to partly revert to pc gaming to catch up with OFP and to play the coming ArmA ... but for all other games i probably stick to 360 (games like RS:Vegas, PES, Forza, Bioshock, Mass Effect) ... 360 gaming and Xbox Live are just too relaxed to neglect:)




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Chris Death
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#2

Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:56

Quote[/b] ]Moving, navigating (esp. INSIDE buildings) and looking around with the mouse is better
Flying is beter with the controller (especially turning the helo and stuff)
Shooting by using the right trigger (and breath holding) is of course better with controller


To this i can only add:

You can setup a controller for OFP aswell as you can do it
with a Joystick.

I got that Saitek X52 lately and flying in OFP with this piece works like a charm. Posted Image

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#3

Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:23

I would rather play OPF on the PC for 5 more years that Armed Assault on a console Posted Image .

Seriously, maybe Armed Assault will come out for the 360 or PS3 in the future but what you can do with the PC version (like proper editing) is what makes it rock, you can do everything the developers do and even more. You wont go back to a console version of arma to play simplistic missions with a bunch of kids.

Armed Assault is also the last survivor of a genre that was "consolised" (GR, RS) to ridiculous standards (RS: Vegas...urgh!Posted Image this is a strong reason for many people not to be very fond of consoles around here, i can tell that if Arma was one of those "multiplatform" games it wouldnt be as good, it wouldnt have to be.

I hope that with its success (and i strongly believe that Arma will succeed against many odds) more publishers will realise that there is money to be made out of more "serious" products.

OffT: I really like your landing movie, its odd that the chinook doesnt leave the area after unloading the troops but very nice movie imo Posted Image .

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maxqubit
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#4

Posted 19 October 2006 - 10:25

I would rather play OPF on the PC for 5 more years that Armed Assault on a console :) .

Seriously, maybe Armed Assault will come out for the 360 or PS3 in the future but what you can do with the PC version (like proper editing) is what makes it rock, you can do everything the developers do and even more. You wont go back to a console version of arma to play simplistic missions with a bunch of kids.

Armed Assault is also the last survivor of a genre that was "consolised" (GR, RS) to ridiculous standards (RS: Vegas...urgh!) this is a strong reason for many people not to be very fond of consoles around here, i can tell that if Arma was one of those "multiplatform" games it wouldnt be as good, it wouldnt have to be.

I hope that with its success (and i strongly believe that Arma will succeed against many odds) more publishers will realise that there is money to be made out of more "serious" products.

OffT: I really like your landing movie, its odd that the chinook doesnt leave the area after unloading the troops but very nice movie imo :) .

Many valid points made, but i really don't think Elite got a proper chance. It is/was a stunning game but otoh seemed to be half-finished, like the 'lite' editor with no extr DLC.

Now, imho if 'it' (be it Elite or ArmA) came with the FULL editor you really wouldn't have a kiddy game. It would be as serious as it pc brother with the only (important) exception of mods ... but you know, were there is a will there is a way, and imho quality mods could make it to the console thru DLC.

You speak 'highly' of my landing vid. Thx:) but realize that it was made with the 'lite' editor and that the chinook doesn't take off cause i used a getout and want the chinook later to fly back ... Playing the 'landing' co-op wasn't kiddy at all. Very serious co-op but yes, limited perhaps by the 'lite' editor limitations.

To end my usual pro-console view:) If, like you say, see that there are less and less mature, serious games out there you can of course consolidate flashpoint on PC, but i think it is an option to invade console territory again with a proper ArmA console version. Perhaps Elite is/was a beachhead/tryout which ultimately failed (like
Dieppe 1942) but why could ArmA/360 not be a kind of 1944 D-day invasion? :)
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#5

Posted 19 October 2006 - 11:18

I used to play OFP:Ebut my Xbox broke down, so I bought OFP:GOTY (Doesnt run well on my home PC, but plays on my uncles PC) And I prefer PC... Because of the mods/addons and Editor.

Otherwise I dont notice mutch difference. Mods/addons make PC OFP better...

Max, I use WGL too... LOVE! IT! And do you use your X360 online?

If so, add me, my Tag is AllGunzBlazin
But I might sell my 360, all its games, all my (crappy) PS2 games, my (Crappy) PS2, and all my Xbox games to buy a PC that can play ArmA

EDIT: I just watched your Landing vid, and it reminded me how mutch the atmousphere in OFP:E was better... Alot better... It seems mutch more solid a game. But I found that OFP:E aiming was mutch to easy (Crosshair turns red, too mutch accuracy...)
It just seems like a typical "Consolised" game. Dumbed down and made mutch "closer"... if you know what I mean... I cant explain it.




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maxqubit
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#6

Posted 19 October 2006 - 11:45

EDIT: I just watched your Landing vid, and it reminded me how mutch the atmousphere in OFP:E was better... Alot better... It seems mutch more solid a game. But I found that OFP:E aiming was mutch to easy (Crosshair turns red, too mutch accuracy...)
It just seems like a typical "Consolised" game. Dumbed down and made mutch "closer"... if you know what I mean... I cant explain it.

Iron Sight doesn't turn enemy up 'red' but yes the non-IS view does with some auto-aim, even on elite/veteran and that's not 100% hard-core. Valid point!

To come back on the editor and the 'landing' vid ... Now, sometimes less is more:) We all know why you don't have unlimited saves in veteran mode, cause it will ruin the experience ... in this landing mission i, cause of the 'lite' editor, couldn't use a sync. Normally you would sync the arrival of the chinook with the destruction of the shilka ... or radio in or something ... Now, we don't have these things in Elite editor. Frustrating you could say. Yes, but think about this. I now made the backup chinook arrive by letting him fly some waypoints and then land. This put pressure on elimination the shilka at all costs. Many a times we didn't succeed at this in time so our backups were shot out of the sky. You felt you really had failed! I won't say you can't make this with the FULL editor, but then again, WILL you make it like that, or will you sync/radio the chinook because it is possible.

My co-op perhaps is less elaborate but perhaps it therefor turns own to be more fresh. Just a gut feeling i have.

Btw, I LOVE the pc editor (partly cause i'm a programmer) but keep that 'lite' thing in mind... don't overdo missions, i takes away the surprise. I tended do use less and less waypoints, just a lot of GUARDS (not all of course but you get the idea:) and let the AI figure it out themselves.
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Kirby
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#7

Posted 19 October 2006 - 12:57

I tend to make missions where the player is caught as the disadvantage, my best mission was actualy on Elite. We had our squad and a bunch of AI patroling on safe mode around this lil complex in a vally, then the Chinook flying randomly around gets blown out the sky and its raining enemy troops from Ruskie choppers...

I try to make my PC missions as realistic as possible.

I basicly agree with you, PC I find overall better myself, but Elite does do a few things better...

Edit: OFP is whats making me want to sell my 360.




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Denz
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#8

Posted 19 October 2006 - 14:09

I would rather play OPF on the PC for 5 more years that Armed Assault on a console Posted Image .

It all comes down to personal preference. Yours is the pc, mine the console. I much prefer being able to stretch out on the sofa to play games rather than sat upright plus I spend all day sat in front of a pc at work the last thing I want is to do the same thing at night.
The only time I'm hampered by the xbox controller is when placing things in the mission editor. But with OFP I will now have the best of both worlds - use the pc editor to make missions and then play them on the xbox.

OFP:Elite never really had a chance. Released at the end of the xbox's life cycle as everyone was gearing up for X360. I hope BIS do take the chance on a X360 version - though please less of the "dumbing" down and the option in the mission editor for advanced or easy same as the pc. Not everyone who plays consoles are kids.
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#9

Posted 19 October 2006 - 18:27

Doesn't it have to be "dumbed down" to an extent in order to function within the constraints of a console's controller? That is my main beef with console games. Also, I'm not as "immersed" in the game world while playing from the couch as I am on my pc with my fresnel and surround sound. Just my opinion.
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#10

Posted 19 October 2006 - 19:15

The sync feature is one of the most important, basic features of the editor, not including it in Elite was a big oversight Posted Image . About the landing movie i thought the chinook arrival was synced with the shilka destruction when i first saw it.

I dont know if the numbers of console users who like more serious games are enough market to justify a Arma version, i believe that the game would have to be altered significantly in its unique gameplay to appeal to such a market, if this was the case you could end up with a console game even you wouldnt like, not many were able to see past the not so flashy OPF:E graphics or demanding gameplay, ofcourse there were other reasons for the game not to do so well... heck i would problably rather play Elite on a xbox than BF2 on the PC (would have to find a way to hook a mouse/keyboard though) Posted Image .

But if they venture into the console market (again) with a straight Arma version it would be smart to make the PC editor compatible with the console game imo.

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#11

Posted 19 October 2006 - 21:32

Guys, there is a void on consoles, a void for some serious not dumbed down, good looking tactical game.

You know, just this afternoon the Arma teaser 'night fight' or something was available link. You know waht a xbox friend said, a friend who plays all sorts of games(!) 'danm...ziet er goed uit...' meaning Damn that looks good:) He would have gone straight to the gameshop to buy it, and he isn't even a hardcore tac gamer.

Now, most of these guys like shooters but they just have graw, rsv or bf on consoles, they are 20 to 40 years .... So what DO YOU think, that they wouldn't love ArmA???

I just won't buy this idea/argument. There IS a market, the game DOESN'T have to be dumbed down, it IS perfectly playable with a controller, XBL is online HEAVEN ... The Editor must be the same as the pc version ..... and Yes, we can't make mods, mods, mods ... but okay, at that point we look to our ArmA PC brothers and beg if quality mods could be made available for DLC.

Don't tell me it can't be done. It can, there is a market. If 20.000.000 million 360 will be sold in 2 years, and 4.000.000 players have XBL ... now if you just could get 1% of those gamers interested in ArmA you still have massive numbers. I mean you are talking RS:BA hey days here with multiple 10.000 gamers online ... doesn't that sound damned nice.

And for god sake do some agressive advertising, like ArmA blows away GRAW and BF. And tease ... say something like 'You have to be 18+ for this game, it is just too f*cking serious' ... get the attention of those sofa gamers. And blow them out of their seats:)

And fresnel lenses and stuff. The gamers i talk about have the money to buy the latest hd tv setup. Man, they will play ArmA on a screen of 40" or more. I have a friend who hardly plays games but has a private cinema and beamer. He is crazy enough to buy ArmA just for fun, to show of a mil sim on his cinema screen and enjoy it.

Millions mostly older gamers on 360. Boys, who like to play shooters. What is holding BIS back? For gods sake ArmA is the ubershooter. Give those boys their toys, and be surprised that it will work (albeit with some major, agressive advertising, i think that is neccessary to get it going, just create a hype)

Just make ArmA f*cking beautiful (without dumbing it down). Everybody knows THAT sells. And this 'night fight' teaser vid is 'beautiful' it is impressive, and as soon as gamers get that feeling they want to get their hands on it.
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#12

Posted 20 October 2006 - 00:13

Guys, there is a void on consoles, a void for some serious not dumbed down, good looking tactical game.

You know, just this afternoon the Arma teaser 'night fight' or something was available link. You know waht a xbox friend said, a friend who plays all sorts of games(!Posted Image 'danm...ziet er goed uit...' meaning Damn that looks good:) He would have gone straight to the gameshop to buy it, and he isn't even a hardcore tac gamer.

Now, most of these guys like shooters but they just have graw, rsv or bf on consoles, they are 20 to 40 years .... So what DO YOU think, that they wouldn't love ArmA???

I just won't buy this idea/argument. There IS a market, the game DOESN'T have to be dumbed down, it IS perfectly playable with a controller, XBL is online HEAVEN ... The Editor must be the same as the pc version ..... and  Yes, we can't make mods, mods, mods ... but okay, at that point we look to our ArmA PC brothers and beg if quality mods could be made available for DLC.

Don't tell me it can't be done. It can, there is a market. If 20.000.000 million 360 will be sold in 2 years, and 4.000.000 players have XBL ... now if you just could get 1% of those gamers interested in ArmA you still have massive numbers. I mean you are talking RS:BA hey days here with multiple 10.000 gamers online ... doesn't that sound damned nice.

And for god sake do some agressive advertising, like ArmA blows away GRAW and BF. And tease ... say something like 'You have to be 18+ for this game, it is just too f*cking serious' ... get the attention of those sofa gamers. And blow them out of their seats:)

And fresnel lenses and stuff. The gamers i talk about have the money to buy the latest hd tv setup. Man, they will play ArmA on a screen of 40" or more. I have a friend who hardly plays games but has a private cinema and beamer. He is crazy enough to buy ArmA just for fun, to show of a mil sim on his cinema screen and enjoy it.

Millions mostly older gamers on 360. Boys, who like to play shooters. What is holding BIS back? For gods sake ArmA is the ubershooter. Give those boys their toys, and be surprised that it will work (albeit with some major, agressive advertising, i think that is neccessary to get it going, just create a hype)

Just make ArmA f*cking beautiful (without dumbing it down). Everybody knows THAT sells. And this 'night fight' teaser vid is 'beautiful' it is impressive, and as soon as gamers get that feeling they want to get their hands on it.

Anyone know what specs will be needed to play armed assault on your PC when it arrives? Stupid question i know but im still asking! cant wait to see if it does come out on the 360 cos its more conveniant plus the fact u can have system link etc even though PC enables u to tech everything up!

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#13

Posted 20 October 2006 - 08:39

Well said Maxqubit!!!
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#14

Posted 20 October 2006 - 14:22

ARMA FOR 360! NO CHANGES! WOOT! Thats what I want.
Then I might consider keeping my beautiful white box of love!

Addons could be downloaded over XBL. But even stock ArmA (WITHOUT STUFF TAKEN OUT) would be amazing!


^ Basicly: I want what Max wants! ^

As for editor "Needing a keyboard" theres always an on screen one ( Maybe Simpler scripts, EG, changeweapon "M16,AK74" rather than this removeallweapons; yadahyadah "blahblah"; yadahblah "blahyadah"; ) or just hook up a USB keyboard ( They work on 360 dont they?! )




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Denz
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#15

Posted 20 October 2006 - 14:50

Don't see why a usb keyboard wouldn't work.
I'd be happy with scrolling through letters using the d:pad if it meant a proper mission editor.
I have no problem putting a mod chip in my X360 when the chips come out as long as I could do more than I can now with a modded xbox. Mainly an easy path for addons animation to work. This is the problem those of us with modded xboxs are having, we can actually port a hell of a lot of pc addons but only a very small number work correctly due to the animation.




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#16

Posted 20 October 2006 - 23:14

i dont like modding my hardware.
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#17

Posted 21 October 2006 - 08:59

or just hook up a USB keyboard ( They work on 360 dont they?! )

Technically speaking yeah, but microsoft is quite paranoid about making X360 appear like a computer.

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#18

Posted 24 October 2006 - 22:21

I totally agree that ArmA should be released on the 360.
There is a huge group of 360 gamers that are unsatisfied. Since Ghost Recon 1 came out on Xbox lot's of gamers were hooked on it because of it's realistic style of gameplay, which formed the perfect alternative for the Halo/Unreal kind of games. Unfortunately for many Ghost Recon surprisingly turned from a down to earth tactical first person shooter into a dumbed down futuristic 3rd person action game (GR2/GRAW).

Since this change lot's of people have been complaining about this on the GR boards up until this day.
The game that once formed the alternative for all of the standard fast paced shooters is now awfully close in becoming one. And now the alternative is as good as gone there is a huge group of players unsatisfied with the current selection of games, some fall back on the older GR versions or some even move to pc gaming (like me) because there simple isn't anything interesting for them.

So imo Armed Assault would be the perfect answer to fill in this huge gap. Only thing is that if you guys would release it please don't make the same mistake as you did with OFP:E by releasing it way over time. That game had lot's of potential if released like 2 years earlier, and not a few months before the new 360 arrived.

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#19

Posted 26 October 2006 - 15:08

i dont like modding my hardware.

No one said you had to mate.
I have got really into editing the OFP files/pbos now and enjoy the extra "freedom" it gives me and will probably never be happy with a bog standard console again. Certainly not for a game like Op. Flashpoint or Armed Assault where I want to (and can to a certain extent) be able to do the same as those who use the pc version.
-----------
Agree totally with Tactical Jerky and with what Maxqubit said previously. There is a huge gap in the console market for games like Armed Assault. People are fed up with what Ghost Recon and other similar shooters have turned into.
Now I'm no programmer but from the bits and pieces I've looked into and as I recall, Recoil stated a while ago, the recoding for an X360 version should'nt be as time consuming as many people think, not like if there was to be a PS3 version -of which I don't care if there was anyway. The file structure for Armed Assault is similar to what we are using now in Elite.
I can't see it delaying Game2 any more than it already has been with the added bonus (if an X360 version comes along) of more money and recognition for BIS!




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#20

Posted 18 November 2006 - 21:31

I don't think Microsoft likes the idea of people making (free content/3rd party) for games on their DLC/XBLIVE ,without MS getting their cut. And DLC would make the addon maker have to jump through hoops (*compatibility problems with other addons*) they don't have to on the PC. So fan made addons for XB/360 machines seems kinda pointless to me.

And addons have made an excellent game even better. One of many reasons this game has remained on so many PC hard drives for the last 5 years... longer if you count demos.

So I'm not asking BIS to make (AA/and beyond) PC exclusives, I am asking them to make them for PC first without the console limitations.

The console gamers that bought Elite are a gifted few that understand what makes a fantastic mil sim...... The vast majority of console gamers are not looking for realistic mil sims though.
They want movie games on rails, instant action/arcade play, non realistic hit point systems, auto aim, load times , episodic DLC/micro pay horse armor.

So remember elite owners, you are the smart ones for picking up this game. You deserve more than a console can give you no matter if it's next gen or not.





** When 2 addons conflict with each other, you can alter them yourself, or separate them in addon folders. I don't see that happening much with consoles. An addon maker would have to have free access to all addons made to prevent conflicts. Granted ,many conflicts happen when makers barrow parts form other addons...but not always.
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