The truth about Canadian peacekeepers.

[Tovarish 0]

I just wanted to add a little tidbit of information that might add to people's knowledge of "the truth" about Canadian peacekeepers. During the war, Ottawa took in a pretty sizeable number of refugees from the region. Before the war I have never heard anyone mention a Bosnian community, but it definitely exists now. I work with one of these former refugees, and apparently a month or two ago, he went to a Canadian military base where former refugees were invited to a farewell party for a contingent of departing peacekeepers. The former refugees brought traditional foods and did their best to familiarize the peacekeepers with their culture.

[drow 0]

And yes, we do have a few idiots, more than a few, but this is not representative of the overall CDN forces.  

As I said, NEXT.

we only have a "few" troops :P

anyways, Canadas soldiers are usually more specialized, we have a really small military but theres lots of guys who train different soldiers all over the world,,,

then we have the unlucky "normal" soldiers, but they're just friendly fire targets for the US Military...

[bn880 5]

And yes, we do have a few idiots, more than a few, but this is not representative of the overall CDN forces.

As I said, NEXT.

we only have a "few" troops :P

anyways, Canadas soldiers are usually more specialized, we have a really small military but theres lots of guys who train different soldiers all over the world,,,

then we have the unlucky "normal" soldiers, but they're just friendly fire targets for the US Military...

Oh yeah, I was talking mostly about reserves and general public. It's no secret that our troops are better trained than the Yanks.

And let the flamefest begin...

[DracoPaladore 0]

Well, we only have, what? 10% of the US population in our country(300mil US, 32mil CA)? You can only expect that we have under 1/3 the size of the US army.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Larium? Brutal psychizophrenic behaviour? Nobody mentioned that when I was taking it, and when 50 of my peers were taking it... worst thing that happened was some people had some weird dreams. (which I was looking forward to and didn't get )

[bn880 5]

Well, we only have, what? 10% of the US population in our country(300mil US, 32mil CA)? You can only expect that we have under 1/3 the size of the US army.

It is not the size that matters... heh

hmm, I wonder why a moderator has not renamed this topic yet, it.

[CanadianTerror 0]

So I sit down with my coffee and cigarette to enjoy a nice thread on how my country is full of murdering bastards and as usual, the Yanks have to step in and turn into a murdering bastard thread about them.

It's not always about the U.S eh.

Blame Canada!

   

EDIT: Btw, I know plenty of guys who go on UN missions all over the world. These guys are top notch. There's a difference between a real soldier and a guy holding a gun playing one.

[bn880 5]

Are you sure, because even this forum has one of these

God damn biased moderating I say!

how about one of these then

Plus we rank much better:

http://www.canada.com/nationa....ea7c61b

[DracoPaladore 0]

Are you sure, because even this forum has one of these

Assault(CAN)? Is he off somewheres? Havn't seen him post in awhile.

[miles teg 1]

Larium?  Brutal psychizophrenic behaviour?  Nobody mentioned that when I was taking it, and when 50 of my peers were taking it... worst thing that happened was some people had some weird dreams.  (which I was looking forward to and didn't get )

LOL! Ah that explains the odd behavior. LOL!

As I mentioned, in *some* individuals it has very very nasty psychotic effects, while for others it has few side effects or very mild side effects. There loads of stuff about it on the internet and various publications.

I believe it was 60 minutes or 20/20 that did a show about it and interviewed several soldiers who suffered severe side effects from it.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I believe it was 60 minutes or 20/20 that did a show about it and interviewed several soldiers who

CLAIMED TO HAVE

Quote[/b] ]

suffered severe side effects from it.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Balschoiw 0]

Lariam is said to have nasty side effects. Even the Us military is investigating it. BTW Baron, when did you have to take it ?

I´m always a bit sceptical about malaria drugs. One product only provides safety for a few limited sorts of malaria but if you take Congo for example you have 100 dreds of malaria kinds on a few square kilometers. Most of the times I take the pills prior mission and a soft version that I buy or get from local doctors or UNHCR staff at the location. They know best what helps or not.

Military's use of malaria drug in question

Quote[/b] ]CNN) -- U.S. Army Chief Warrant Officer Bill Howell began taking Lariam before going to Iraq in 2003. In March, three weeks after returning home, Howell fatally shot himself in his front yard.

Sgt. 1st Class Rigoberto Nieves also took the anti-malarial medication during his tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2002. Two days after coming home, he killed his wife and himself.

Although grieving families and some experts suspect a link between Lariam and the deaths, the Pentagon said it isn't sure. And until its conclusion of a study into the matter, the Defense Department said it intends to hand out the drug to U.S. military service personnel in some regions where malaria is a threat.

"The combination of the anecdotal reports and the perceptions have led me to conclude that we need to perform a study to ... see if there are the adverse outcomes that some believe there might be," said Dr. William Winkenwerder, assistant secretary of defense for health affairs.

There is no timeline for the probe, Winkenwerder said, but he has requested its completion as soon as possible.

"To take a proven effective drug out of the armamentarium to protect our soldiers is not something that we have the scientific basis to do at this time," he said.

Concern prompts FDA move

Since the Food and Drug Administration approved Lariam in 1989, more than 20 million people have received it, according to its maker, Roche Pharmaceuticals.

Roche warns that in rare cases Lariam can trigger nausea, sleep disorders, nightmares or thoughts of suicide. "Some patients taking Lariam think about killing themselves, and there have been rare reports of suicides," says company literature on the drug. "We do not know if Lariam was responsible for these suicides."

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention warns of possible "visual disturbances" associated with Lariam, also known by its generic name, mefloquine. "Mefloquine has rarely been reported to cause serious side effects, such as seizures, depression and psychosis," the CDC's Web site says.

In July 2003, concern about the drug prompted the FDA to make a rare move. The agency called on Roche to craft a medication guide -- a warning written in laymen's terms -- that must be placed in the hands of each Lariam user.

The guide warns of "certain psychiatric adverse events -- anxiety, depression, restlessness or confusion" associated with the drug and advises "to contact a physician if such ailments present themselves." The special medication guide was not required by the FDA before the war in Iraq.

Based on UPI investigative reporter Mark Benjamin's interviews with 50 to 100 U.S soldiers, troops were routinely given Lariam without any information, written or verbal, about the drug's possible side effects.

Lariam is one of the most powerful drugs available to fight forms of a parasite resistant to one of the most commonly used anti-malarial drugs -- chloroquine.

Malaria kills an estimated 1 million people each year, according to the CDC.

Caused by a parasite passed from mosquitoes to humans, malaria occurs in mostly tropical and subtropical regions. Malaria carriers can suffer recurrent attacks of chills and fever and sometimes die.

Some U.S. troops were given Lariam while serving in Iraq and Kuwait until the military learned through its testing that drug-resistant forms are not a threat in those countries. It continues to be among the drugs the Pentagon uses to combat chloroquine-resistant malaria in Afghanistan.

The CDC does not list either Iraq or Kuwait as posing a risk of chloroquine-resistant malaria -- information that was available before the Iraq war began.

Cluster of killings

On March 14, Howell's wife, Laura, called Colorado's El Paso County 911 to report that her husband had hit her and had gone downstairs to get his gun.

A few minutes after the phone call, Howell, who had been taking Lariam while deployed with Special Forces in Iraq, walked out to his front yard and committed suicide. Laura Howell said she didn't know what drove her husband to take his life but she suspects Lariam.

During the summer of 2002, four soldiers at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, killed their wives -- and three of them killed themselves. Three of the four men had been taking Lariam before their suicides, according to Benjamin, who has done an extensive investigation into the drug and its use in military and civilian settings.

Benjamin interviewed family members and colleagues of the soldiers after the cluster of killings among the elite troops who used Lariam drew his attention.

Nieves fatally shot himself and his wife two days after returning from Afghanistan in June 2002, according to the Army.

Another of the Fort Bragg soldiers who took Lariam, Master Sgt. William Wright, confessed to strangling his wife a month after his return from Afghanistan. He later hanged himself while awaiting trial in jail, according to police.

Fellow soldiers who served with Sgt. 1st Class Brandon Floyd said he also was taking Lariam before he killed his wife and himself, although the Army said it could not confirm that he was taking the drug.

A fourth soldier, Sgt. Cedric Griffin, stabbed his estranged wife and set her body on fire, according to police. Griffin was the only soldier of the four who did not kill himself. Because he had not served in Afghanistan or Iraq, Griffin likely was not taking Lariam, according to Benjamin.

An Army investigation into the Fort Bragg killings also included a fifth soldier, who police say was killed by his wife. She's awaiting trial on murder charges.

The Army probe found that Lariam was not the cause of the Fort Bragg deaths -- a conclusion public health specialist Sue Rose disputes. Rose, who is working to raise consumer awareness about Lariam, said the Army erred in its investigation by including those who did not take the medication.

"The military is drawing the wrong conclusion from those deaths," Rose said. "The true cluster, the true group you want to look at are those men who took Lariam, and of the men who took Lariam, who all served in Afghanistan, all three of them killed their wives and subsequently committed suicide."

Rose said data from a recent study suggests that Lariam users experience significantly more moderate and severe neuropsychiatric side effects than users of three other comparable anti-malarial drugs.

Rose -- an assistant adjunct professor in the George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services -- said she has been investigating Lariam since the early 1990s. She also has a law degree from the University of California, Hastings College of the Law. Rose has not performed an independent investigation into the killings at Fort Bragg.

Roche points out that the authors of the study cited by Rose also reported that "tolerability of the four ... currently recommended anti-malarial drugs ... is high, with no serious or adverse events and good quality of life reported

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

I took it when I went to Malawi for 5 weeks to help build an irrigation scheme, and to teach the locals to teach others how to do the same. The area we were going to was mainly the type of malaria (B?) that larium is most effective against, and we took it for a few weeks before we went to check for ill effects (and continued it for about a month after). AFAIR nobody had anything more than weird dreams out of a group of about 50.

I'm sure there are side effects. I'm also sure that there are very very few substances on Earth that don't induce side effects in some people (Water, for example, clean pure unpolluted water causes 'side effects' in some people.) I'm also sure that in many cases grieving relatives confuse cause, incidental things, and effect.

In the case of the guy who shot himself: I'm sure he's not the only person who ever commited suicide. It *may* just be incidental that he was taking Larium. It could be because he ate toast that morning contaminated with something else. It could have any number of causes and to automatically assume Larium caused him to commit suicide is foolish, IMO.

Look at the rates of suicide and violent crime amongst those who aren't taking larium and who are. Are they higher, or is this just blown completely out of proportion?

[ran 0]

Water, for example

erm ... you want to pee after a while if you drink a certain quantity of it ?

ok, ok, I get out

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Water, for example

erm ... you want to pee after a while if you drink a certain quantity of it ?

ok, ok, I get out

Well, its very rare, but some people are actually allergic to water. There's also a condition where water can cause an allergic reaction to their own sweat.

There was also an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit where they listed the 'adverse effects' of Dihydogen Monoxide (water)

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death:

1. cause excessive sweating and vomiting;

2. it is a major component in acid rain;

3. it can cause severe burns in its gaseous state;

4. accidental inhalation can kill you;

5. it contributes to erosion;

6. it decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes;

7. it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients.

[ran 0]

Well, its very rare, but some people are actually allergic to water. There's also a condition where water can cause an allergic reaction to their own sweat.

I think I remember a TV show not long ago about rare diseases and allergies with a british girl who was allergic to water

Quote[/b] ]

There was also an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit where they listed the 'adverse effects' of Dihydogen Monoxide (water)

Dihydrogen monoxide is colorless, odorless, tasteless, and kills uncounted thousands of people every year. Most of these deaths are caused by accidental inhalation of DHMO, but the dangers of dihydrogen monoxide do not end there. Prolonged exposure to its solid form causes severe tissue damage. Symptoms of DHMO ingestion can include excessive sweating and urination, and possibly a bloated feeling, nausea, vomiting and body electrolyte imbalance. For those who have become dependent, DHMO withdrawal means certain death:

1. cause excessive sweating and vomiting;

2. it is a major component in acid rain;

3. it can cause severe burns in its gaseous state;

4. accidental inhalation can kill you;

5. it contributes to erosion;

6. it decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes;

7. it has been found in tumors of terminal cancer patients.

AHAH !!

No chance I drink water anymore ....

(well, actually yes, this morning, I drunk a liter and a half of water and I plan on doing the same tomorow morning ... I don't want to fall consciousless in the middle of the countryside )

[Tovarish 0]

There was also an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit where they listed the 'adverse effects' of Dihydogen Monoxide

Calif. Officials Nearly Fall for H2O Hoax

Quote[/b] ]ALISO VIEJO, Calif. (AP) - City officials were so concerned about the potentially dangerous properties of dihydrogen monoxide that they considered banning foam cups after they learned the chemical was used in their production.

Then they learned, to their chagrin, that dihydrogen monoxide - H2O for short - is the scientific term for water.

"It's embarrassing," said City Manager David J. Norman. "We had a paralegal who did bad research."

The paralegal apparently fell victim to one of the many official looking Web sites that have been put up by pranksters to describe dihydrogen monoxide as "an odorless, tasteless chemical" that can be deadly if accidentally inhaled.

As a result, the City Council of this Orange County suburb had been scheduled to vote next week on a proposed law that would have banned the use of foam containers at city-sponsored events. Among the reasons given for the ban were that they were made with a substance that could "threaten human health and safety."

The measure has been pulled from the agenda, although Norman said the city may still eventually ban foam cups.

"If you get Styrofoam into the water and it breaks apart, it's virtually impossible to clean up," Norman said.

[DarkLight 0]

There was also an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit where they listed the 'adverse effects' of Dihydogen Monoxide

Calif. Officials Nearly Fall for H2O Hoax

Quote[/b] ]ALISO VIEJO, Calif. (AP) - City officials were so concerned about the potentially dangerous properties of dihydrogen monoxide that they considered banning foam cups after they learned the chemical was used in their production.

Then they learned, to their chagrin, that dihydrogen monoxide - H2O for short - is the scientific term for water.

"It's embarrassing," said City Manager David J. Norman. "We had a paralegal who did bad research."

The paralegal apparently fell victim to one of the many official looking Web sites that have been put up by pranksters to describe dihydrogen monoxide as "an odorless, tasteless chemical" that can be deadly if accidentally inhaled.

As a result, the City Council of this Orange County suburb had been scheduled to vote next week on a proposed law that would have banned the use of foam containers at city-sponsored events. Among the reasons given for the ban were that they were made with a substance that could "threaten human health and safety."

The measure has been pulled from the agenda, although Norman said the city may still eventually ban foam cups.

"If you get Styrofoam into the water and it breaks apart, it's virtually impossible to clean up," Norman said.

What the fuck? I'm 17 and even i knew that... i bet most 12 year old kids even know that...