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andersgrim
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#1

Posted 24 June 2003 - 12:44

For an addon to follow the AAE standard properly, a mission for the addon should be made...
Now, will it be necessary to include two .msi's for the addon; one for the addon itself and one for the mission, or would it be best to make a zip containing the .msi packed addon and just a .pbo mission?

Maruk
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#2

Posted 24 June 2003 - 19:29

For an addon to follow the AAE standard properly, a mission for the addon should be made...
Now, will it be necessary to include two .msi's for the addon; one for the addon itself and one for the mission, or would it be best to make a zip containing the .msi packed addon and just a .pbo mission?

It all shall be on single msi file containing everything. Theoretically, you can create msi file containt a mission only and it still would be AAE compliant but unless the mission is really superb quality (with notable musical score, storyline, voice overs) I doubt anyone would be really interested in such addon.

On the other hand, if you addon packed into msi doesn't contain a single mission, it's not aae compliant.
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andersgrim
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#3

Posted 24 June 2003 - 21:14

Ok, I understand.
I thought the installer was like the beta where you browsed for your \addons folder. Now as you just browse to your \Flashpoint directory, i get the point Posted Image
Do any other game developer publish that much help and tools for it's community? Posted Image

Nagual
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#4

Posted 25 June 2003 - 08:55

So what is the bis stance on music in aae missions?
Are we allowed to use custom music, or will that bring about such serious legal issues that bis cant dare list them on the aae page?

And IF anyone from bis read my posts in the last aae thread, you will know i think the addon only mission restriction is flawed when dealing wither a bigger mod/team that make inter-related, but not interdependant addons.
I would seriously prefer to not make missions at all than make missions i have zero interest in, or to work backwards, hacking up old demos so they are worse off for the "update".





PSC
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#5

Posted 25 June 2003 - 09:21

Quote from the AAE guidelines:

Quote[/b] ]
V) If the addons itself requires other addons to work properly, it has to:
i) include such addons in requiredAddons[] list
ii) provide exact instructions where to get the addon in the readme file
iii) the addons in question has to be At Ease compliant addons as well


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Nagual
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#6

Posted 25 June 2003 - 09:32

Those lines are in relation to addon dependencies PSC, not missions.

Nagual
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#7

Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:14

So what is the bis stance on music in aae missions?
Are we allowed to use custom music, or will that bring about such serious legal issues that bis cant dare list them on the aae page?

I got some info from the AvonLady that is relevant to this:

Quote[/b] ]
If this will turn out to be a problem, there's always AMORE.

AMORE makes music optional - not required. So, you can produce an AAE mission that uses AMORE and is AAE compliant, since technically, AMORE music files are optional.



PSC
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#8

Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:16

Oh, but wasn't that what you were asking for?

Quote[/b] ]Or, for example a delta ranger specific mission, are we meant to insert them with BIS blackhawks, when there are nice littlebirds available? From my perspective, that defeats the greater scope of what BAS make, and doesn't provide BAS fans with what they enjoy.


Maybe I didn't get your point right though?

Regards, PSC Posted Image





Nagual
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#9

Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:40

I was thinking more along the lines of 2 addons in a mission when the two addons do not use the requiredAddons[].

For example, the delta's and MH6 dont use requiredAddons[] because they dont need to, neither addon uses the config or textures/resources of the other.
But ingame, they are a pair. So even though the delta's are not technically required to play a mh6 demo mission, it is common sense to use the delta's in that mission for gameplay, enjoyment, and technical reasons (such as goggles/rotorwash).

Another small example, the mh47e missions use KLR 250 bikes, not because they are required, but because using them in combination with the Mh47 is one of the addons features, so they are there to give the player chance to check out the options of the addon.

But if making the mission using an addon that is not required in the [] config makes the package non-AAE compliant, its seems silly when the mission would be better of for it, and the players first experience of the addon would be more enjoyable.

Another example, say the nomad mod, with their big island download. If they later release some soviet / afghan units to fight on the island, as a seperate download, the mission for the units would techincally not be allowed to be on the island, unless the requiredaddons[] is needlesly used, or they are packed in one even bigger download.  

I think using just the addon being installed is a good idea, most of the time,especially for standalone addons (not part of bigger project), its even the bas policy. But there is only 2 (released) bas demos that stick to that policy, because of gameplay or practicality. And one of those, the MH6 demo, is already converted to use Deltas, as it makes sense.

PSC
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#10

Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:48

Oh well, I always understood it like this: If you need another addon for a) the addon itself or B) the mission, write a note into the requiredAddons[] part of a) the addons config, or B) the mission.sqm (there is such a part in the mission.sqm, isn't it?).
Plus the rest (instruction in the readme where to get, etc...).

Regard, PSC

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Nagual
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#11

Posted 25 June 2003 - 10:52

Yeah, i might of got it wrong.
If it works that way then im happy, required in config or sqm sounds good. Posted Image
Thanks

andersgrim
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#12

Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:23

EDIT: Suma answered the Q





Suma
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#13

Posted 25 June 2003 - 12:26

Most important aspect of AAE is ease of use. I am convinced that for this we need to keep addon dependecies at the minimal possible level.

Quote[/b] ]But if making the mission using an addon that is not required in the [] config makes the package non-AAE compliant, its seems silly when the mission would be better of for it, and the players first experience of the addon would be more enjoyable.


There is nothing that would prevent you creating such a mission outside the addon, distribute it separetelly and mark it so that it requires both addons. The intention is that you need to be able to install the addon and play it demo mission to see the addon in action (no matter how simple the demo mission is), not having to solve any addon dependencies.
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Maruk
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#14

Posted 25 June 2003 - 14:43

So what is the bis stance on music in aae missions?
Are we allowed to use custom music, or will that bring about such serious legal issues that bis cant dare list them on the aae page?

If you mean by custom music a music you don't have rights to distribute publicely, the answer is:

we'll never list any link to a file that we positively know it violates someone elses copyright.

And generally, it's a bad idea to copy someones music and use it within a file that you want to share over the internet. You clearly violate copyright of the author of the music by doing it. I understand a movie soundtracks or professional bands are producing top quality music and it adds lot to the missions but it doesn't justify for violating copyright of its creators.
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andersgrim
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#15

Posted 25 June 2003 - 18:43

I believe in these cases addonmakers can use computer reworked .mp3 versions for mission soundtracks. Not very high quality though, but atleast you do not use the original copyrighted version.

WhoCares
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#16

Posted 26 June 2003 - 08:44

I believe in these cases addonmakers can use computer reworked .mp3 versions for mission soundtracks. Not very high quality though, but atleast you do not use the original copyrighted version.

I am not so sure about that. The copyright protects until 70 years after the death of the artist. Until then, published copies (or cover versions) must have his permission (or of the label, that represents him). However, I am not sure about all the details. You surely can use an own version of 'The ride of the Valkyrie' by Wagner. However, I am not sure about a record of it conducted by the London Symphonic Orchestra...
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andersgrim
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#17

Posted 26 June 2003 - 09:44

I am sorry. I meant to say midi versions.
<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">
I believe in these cases addonmakers can use computer reworked midi versions for mission soundtracks. Not very high quality though, but atleast you do not use the original copyrighted version.
[/QUOTE]
okay now? Posted Image





Maruk
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#18

Posted 26 June 2003 - 10:34

I believe in these cases addonmakers can use computer reworked .mp3 versions for mission soundtracks. Not very high quality though, but atleast you do not use the original copyrighted version.

You believe in something that is not true in most cases.

Converting the music into any format still doesn't mean it's not copyrighted. Public peformances of any kind are usually forbidded when you buy music CD (unless very rare case when the work is declared as public domain) and you would have to contact the publisher of the music and the author if you want to give their creation in any way to public.
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andersgrim
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#19

Posted 26 June 2003 - 10:44

Oh...i thought midi files was just as mobile phone-ringtones - that they are just based on a well-known melody. Yea, well afterall those large music files add a lot of unnecessary megs to the mission.pbo!
So with TheAvonLady's AMORE system, a user adds his/her soundtrack and at the same time he/she agree to a policy saying that it can be freely distributed in any OF mission then?!
But i get you, and i bet that is the reason why Seventh is behind all the melodies in OF Posted Image

Kegetys
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#20

Posted 26 June 2003 - 10:52

Oh...i thought midi files was just as mobile phone-ringtones - that they are just based on a well-known melody.

This kindof depends on the copyright law you have on your country, but at least in Finland its perfectly legal to "play again" some song an distribute it as you wish, ie. you cannot copyright a melody. (Lyrics for example are a different story, thats why cover songs usually dont have their lyrics printed on the cd booklet)

The whole thing is different if you take an existing recording and copy it around. It doesnt matter if it loses quality or is in different format, but if its comes from a copyrighted source its illegal to copy it without permission.
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