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DayGlow
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#1

Posted 24 April 2003 - 21:29

For myself one of the biggest things lacking in all combat simulations is an ai with more 'human' like qualities. The ai in OFP is very good taticaly, using gernades and flanking manouvers, but it is still lacking suppressive fire.

I'd love to see LMG used as they are intended, to lay down fire to get the enemy to keep their heads down as you move. Nothing frustrates me more than having the ai cooly pick you off because your fire is landing all around them, but not quite hitting them. I'd love to see a 'fear for life' in the ai. Not blindly running into a stream of bullets, but actaully keeping their head down and staying in cover.,

It maybe very hard to impliment and would have a drastic effect on gameplay. Some would argue that the game would loose a lot of the 'fun factor' because firefights would be more drawn out and not always have a desisive victory. At the same time it would really help with fire and move tatics. I'd love to have a support element under my command and able to tell them to hit an area with suppressive fire as I manouver my other men to a better position.

What does everyone thing and what other improvements or changes to the ai they would love to see?

COLINMAN
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CoolCarlos2002
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#2

Posted 24 April 2003 - 21:47

I hate the way AI Choppers crash into each other, makes some mission impossible,

better driving, i hate the way the spin on a road when a groupe of trucks drive
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colt
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#3

Posted 24 April 2003 - 23:02

I was thinking about how BIS could implement suppressive fire the other day.

My idea:

Choose your machine gunner  "F ?" then go to 'engage' or 'action' in the command menu and then have an option to 'suppress'. Once selected you right click and draw a window around the area you want him to fire on.

You could use a hot key to turn suppression on or off.
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Bullz_eye_on_my_back
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#4

Posted 24 April 2003 - 23:08

One thing I kind of noticed with chopers.... is that when the AI first take off or get a do move command.. they always initially fly up 50 meters no matter what you specify before taking off.. or you have to try and force it to stay at the specific height...

Canukausiuka
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#5

Posted 25 April 2003 - 01:43

One thing I'd like to see (with a toggle option, perhaps) is emotional AI. Presently the AI works like a machine, following orders and w/o personality. The only thing I ever see them do similar to this is run away from time to time, but that's rare, and they don't go far, and they come back.

I'd like to see the AI have different personalities. Some would be agressive; attempt to engage the enemy quickly and generally toss a lot of lead in their direction. Some could always stick to cover and only pop out to shoot. Some could take their time in combat and aim well. Furthermore, I'd like to see their behavior affected by their situation. Demoralized troops could crack under fire, and just hide wherever they could, maybe even try to flee, or surrender. Also, the units shouldn't just obey orders blindly in combat.

I feel that this would make the game an even more realistic experience, because right now, even though the AI is good, they are a tad bit robotic in their actions. I'd like to see more human AI developed in OFP2.

Of course, we'd need options to set personalities, or to disable things like disobeying orders and emotions, but I think it would be well worth it.
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ran
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#6

Posted 25 April 2003 - 02:02

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MSMS_KDXer @ April 25 2003,03:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">One thing I'd like to see (with a toggle option, perhaps) is emotional AI.  Presently the AI works like a machine, following orders and w/o personality.  The only thing I ever see them do similar to this is run away from time to time, but that's rare, and they don't go far, and they come back.

I'd like to see the AI have different personalities.  Some would be agressive; attempt to engage the enemy quickly and generally toss a lot of lead in their direction.  Some could always stick to cover and only pop out to shoot.  Some could take their time in combat and aim well.  Furthermore, I'd like to see their behavior affected by their situation.  Demoralized troops could crack under fire, and just hide wherever they could, maybe even try to flee, or surrender.  Also, the units shouldn't just obey orders blindly in combat.

I feel that this would make the game an even more realistic experience, because right now, even though the AI is good, they are a tad bit robotic in their actions.  I'd like to see more human AI developed in OFP2.

Of course, we'd need options to set personalities, or to disable things like disobeying orders and emotions, but I think it would be well worth it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
nice idea , really nice Posted Image
yes , the AI needs to be more emotionnal

Crassus
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#7

Posted 25 April 2003 - 02:15

Posted Image2--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (colt @ April 25 2003,01Posted Image2)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I was thinking about how BIS could implement suppressive fire the other day.

My idea:

Choose your machine gunner  "F ?" then go to 'engage' or 'action' in the command menu and then have an option to 'suppress'. Once selected you right click and draw a window around the area you want him to fire on.

You could use a hot key to turn suppression on or off.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In sum: area fire, as well as point fire on inanimate objects. "Contact...Right Front...Enemy in the bushes....Light 'em up..."

(If you've ever played either of the Combat Mission games, then you know how "sexy" area fire is, esp when tanks are throwing smoke into the treeline, and one of your platoons machineguns is throwing lead into that same treeline! Mmmm...:P  )




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bn880
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#8

Posted 25 April 2003 - 03:40

Yeah, even have a look at Ghost Recon and how much atmos supress fire adds. That reminds me, better sounds. Posted Image
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DayGlow
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#9

Posted 25 April 2003 - 04:21

Yes! That's one thing I love about GR. I remember in the city map I was pinned down behind a small pile of rubble because the ai was hammering my position. I was stuck there for over a minute while I moved my other squad to a flank position.

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#10

Posted 25 April 2003 - 05:21

[OT]Woohoo! Combat Mission![/OT]

Seriously, I think that's a good point. Blind fire/area fire/recon by fire would be a good addition to have.

sanctuary
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#11

Posted 25 April 2003 - 05:31

One feature that needs to be added is the "i fear for my life" simulation in the OFP AI

In a OFP mission, when i am wounded or if i see several bullet impacts in front of me , i will try to quickly find cover , in OFP an AI does not care at all .

With this addition in the OFP2 AI , engagement time will be more realistic , soldier will try to find cover instead of facing each other a la "OK Corral" ,something i dont like at all in OFP1
Engagement time are actually too quick with AI , 4 squads in a town and the fight will have just 2 mn duration ........

Please BIS improve the AI on that point and give them a "fear for my life" simulation





Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX
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#12

Posted 25 April 2003 - 10:21

Zayfod on OFPN's spray script is in the middle of being worked on by some really talented people to simulate emotions and fear in combat.
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havocsquad
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#13

Posted 25 April 2003 - 15:19

Don't forget, we need CQB AI available and AI to breech buildings.  CS and Rainbow Six series are testiments to the fun of tango trashing, and I think it would gain a TON of people to buy OFP 2 by implimenting this.

Last but not least, it is VITAL in OFP 2 to have good CQB AI and CQB commands.  I get REALLY tired of some CPU guy hidden around in cities slaughtering my team because they won't stick together and the team's flanks and rear.

I wanna be able to go in a city with my AI teammates guarding flanks and keeping an eye out for threats above.  Then, I want to be able to bust in a door with 6 AI teammates fanning out in the building to clear it in 3 seconds MAX.  

Flashbangs and Heavy armored Riot Shields should be included also, tends to help kill those camping AI in buildings.

Anyways, if they are really limited on time and budget, all I ask is better use of AI through CQB manuvers in cities and buildings, and better positioning of units in buidlings in the mission editor with waypoints that will move them exactly to that position and to that level or floor.

Anyways, I hope BIS impliments this.  If they do and the campaign isn't Vietnam (Yuck), I will reserving my copy at the local software store and be one of the first in line to buy it.

There are more things I'd discuss relating to this that I want, but it's a different topic.



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#14

Posted 25 April 2003 - 18:59

To summarise:
1-AI has to be able to supress fire
2-AI has to be good in MOUT/FIBUA operations
3-AI should be good in driving and flying (no more crashing into one another)

I think this belongs to point 3 but how about giving the AI better speed control (atleast for landvehicles)? Let's say for those escort the tanks with infantry missions (and where the infantry is not part of the tank platoon)? You know like in the editor you got the choice of three speed modes. I got this idea from GR by the way, in that mission where you'd have to escort those four tanks, they didn't drove that fast, would be cool to see this too in OFP2.
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bn880
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#15

Posted 25 April 2003 - 19:06

Also: Individuals

I would like to see through a campaign individual AI members that pick up skills depending on their mission performance (these attributes or skills of individuals should be visible). Then the CO should be able to pick from a list of say 30 members for his team depending on their abilities? I think this is present in Ghost Recon as well. Well I always look towards Jagged Alliance 2 for some interesting personal strategy. It all depends on what BIS want's to do.

New AI functions like learning which weapons to pick up when, when the commander allows it etc.

Also AI and player surrender functions, currently this may be scripted, however maybe some code could be added to make some AI actualyl give up on it's own depending on conditions. Posted Image
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#16

Posted 26 April 2003 - 14:18

and if you place an AI around with no waypoints make him wander around a bit

and make the AI not have Infra Red Eyes, i dont like em to see me thru a bush or behind a house/tree Posted Image
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#17

Posted 27 April 2003 - 00:18

How about A.i. that reacts when they see a dead soldier that doesnt belong to their group, its odd that they will find a dead soldier on their patrol rout and act like "meh, who cares!"

Fear for life, definetly!!!, and supresive fire too, currently the machine gunner is the most efective element in the squad, they are the first to shoot while the others lie prone, and they are way to acurate Posted Image .

I dont care bout house clearing nor cqb, it just wouldnt feel flashpoint anymore, i find Ghost recon to be a very good game in the tactical close combat genre, turning opf into a cqb game would require many changes to the game engine (house cliping probs, a.i., weapon handling, etc), im sure BIS would sacrifice many current features that some of us love to achieve this Posted Image .

Crassus
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#18

Posted 27 April 2003 - 01:44

If modeling units on real national militaries, then please, get the unit formations correct. As is currently in OFP, a squad wedge has the soldiers in either echelon left or right to the squad leader....

I would like to see:
Ability to import user-made "groups" that have user-made formations. In other words, if BIS chooses not to do it, then allow me or someone else to create, either with the in-game editor or with scripting that will not "fight" against current AI programming....a "real" U.S. Army or British Royal Marine rifle squad. If I order a squad wedge, then the fire teams will form fire team wedges and fall in a wedge behind me, or however the Brits do it....

Also, I would like to be able to order formations for each of the fire teams. Currently formation orders affect the whole squad, but mode/behavior orders can affect selected teams.

Modes: If in a "stealth" mode--I would call it a "patrol" mode, and it would be set/triggered AUTOMATICALLY by how fast I'm walking--when I walk slow, my squad walks slow. No need to set the mode/behavior then walk slow. If I halt when in "patrol" mode, then the squad halts and faces outboard and to the rear to cover their sectors. If I've not moved forward after say 30 seconds then the squad members AUTOMATICALLY kneel. If I've still not moved forward, but only taken a look around, then they go prone, still facing outboard. As in real life, I would have to order "move out", either with the action menu, or the "radio"

Taking fire would automatically set "combat" mode, and the team closest to the threat would automatically lay down suppressing fire. The other team would AUTOMATICALLY move to the fire team in contact to add fires. It would then be up to the player/squad leader what happens during that engagement. I see small dialogs appear that allow things like "Team Alpha base of fire" and "Team Bravo, flank left". And this would be a true maneuver left, not merely a shift to the far left. The fire team would seek the best cover or concealment and attack the enemy from the left. This is what gets the wood going! Posted Image Seeing a your fire teams moving like a well-oiled machine!




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mads bahrt
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#19

Posted 27 April 2003 - 04:26

It would be nice if the AIs couldn't see through the smoke.

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#20

Posted 28 April 2003 - 02:19

In addition to suppressing fire (great idea), I would like AI to be able to use "area fire" with specific weapons.

For example, if Ihave a grenadier or mortar (rifle grenade) soldier under my command, I would like to be able to give him an area to fire at, rather than a specific target. If I know an enemy squad is in a certain area, I should be able to tell him to fire at that area, either by clicking the area in command view, or (if within range) clicking on the map.