ArmA Updates Are Really Feeling Rushed And I'm Seriously Questioning Buying Apex

[I give up 152]

I love about this series .

All the rest are fairy tales.

[Defunkt 431]

I believe as a paying customer I should have that option, it's the same reason why beyond a certain point updating your graphics drivers has diminishing returns, as the drivers themselves may end up not being as optimal for your hardware as newer hardware comes out. I've been rocking the same drivers for some time, and the potential of a slightly increase in performance is simply not worth the very likelihood that newer drivers may well make my now older hardware not run as optimally as I've experienced in the past.

I should have that same option with A3.

 

You do. Just enter the code Arma3Legacy156 in the Steam BETAS tab and you can stay on 1.56. Not sure what happens when they eventually rescind the code but it will at least ensure you don't spend undue time at the bleeding edge. You might even be able to stay there indefinitely if you were prepared to keep Steam in offline mode. And there are likely other options (which can't be discussed here).

 

What you don't get to do is dictate to all the other paying customers who're hungry for updates that they shouldn't enjoy them.

[pd3 25]

 

What you don't get to do is dictate to all the other paying customers who're hungry for updates that they shouldn't enjoy them.

That's a false dichotomy, and nowhere am I advocating for that, if anything the opposite holds true.

There is no way one can rationalize the idea that advocating the ability to "opt out" is depriving anyone of anything.

Legacy codes are not a viable long-term solution especially considering 1.56 has suffered the same fate as 1.58. I don't know where you're going with this, my position is there should be a legitimate way of avoiding disruptive updates, and there isn't.

Also, what's with all the completely non-relevant shill posts?

[I give up 152]

And the freakin hilarious thing is that the thread starter keeps using ARMA 3 (and DayZ) to monetize his freakin youtube account.

If I was a feakin moderator I would close this freakin thread, It's just spam or advertising.

[Defunkt 431]

Also, what's with all the completely non-relevant shill posts?

If you can't stomach contrary opinions you probably shouldn't waste your time on discussion boards.

[pd3 25]

If you can't stomach contrary opinions you probably shouldn't waste your time on discussion boards.

That's not the issue, but thanks for trying to misrepresent my words.

They're not relevant to the subject at hand, but it does seem like childish propagandizing instead of having a legitimate discussion.

 It's just spam or advertising.

That's an outright falsehood, how old are the people in this thread?

 

[nodunit 397]

This is more of a steam related problem in that you only have the option to automatically update games or update when you launch, with no option to disable updating entirerly.

BI  can't control the platform, they can only use temporary countermeasures that inevitably will be phased out one way or another.

[PuFu 4591]

Legacy codes are not a viable long-term solution especially considering 1.56 has suffered the same fate as 1.58. I don't know where you're going with this, my position is there should be a legitimate way of avoiding disruptive updates, and there isn't.

This, as said a numerous times before, it is Steam related and BI can only do so much for you (already does more than many other developers - they provide a code for you to use to stay one version prior to current stable). If you don't like the current system, please consider contacting valve about the "forced updates". https://support.steampowered.com/newticket.php

[Richie 330]

I like BIS.

Apex is one of their product about A3: I bought it.

That's all folks!

Yes B)

[KeyCat 131]

Personally I prefer having an evolving game with features added - for free! - over a stagnant game any day! Sure in a perfect world everything would be included in version 1.00 and without one single bug but as you already know the world is not perfect.

 

This would not be an issue if we did not have updates forced upon us, and why is that anyhow? Is it because of piracy? Because it seems entirely counterintuitive to deprive a paying customer of the ability to get off the update train when it no longer serves to benefit them and have that ability ostensibly facilitated for those who don't pay for the game at all.

 

 

This I 100% agree with but it's a Steam issue and not BIS and it affect all games on Steam not only A3. Would be interesting to hear Valve's reasoning why they removed the option to opt out updates per game instead of forcing it down our throat!

 

 As PuFu already said you can overcome forced updates in a way by setting Steam to offline mode. It's a bad solution but it is an option. We should all complain and have Valve enabling the optional update feature again! Maybe BIS can push the right buttons at Valve to make it happen???

 

 

There is no way any other company would get away with a-priori rationalizing why somebody who bought a game at 1.0 release who cannot play it now, or does so with a dramatic reduction in performance because so many changes were made. That's pants-on-head insane.

 

I can give you one other example. Eagle Dynamics do exactly the same with the DCS series and most likely many other game developers. I think this is the price we have to pay for having new features added and bug fixed over time and eventually the developers will sort it out if they keep supporting their game like BIS does on a daily basis.

 

/KC

[road runner 4344]

So much effing this.

I can immediately tell when something's gone wrong (or right, as in the case of un-spot-repped 1.58) from one patch to the next, and to have somebody tell you that what you're noticing is not real especially when you're somebody like myself, who does not play with a lot of variation but a lot of consistent variables is very discouraging. It's as if the issues leap out at me, and here I am facing insinuations or outright claims that it isn't happening.

I don't even know why these updates are happening if they're not fixing things and making things better, I'm not trying to shit on anyone, but it would be nice to just play the game and not get yanked about from problem to problem. Features are great, drastic alterations to how the game plays is not.

 

 

 

This as well, now every time I see that blue "update queued" text in steam my stomach turns in a few knots, especially if I've set aside some time to enjoy playing Arma with the crazy expectation of you know, enjoying it.

 

Good god no, there are some people who don't have the time to babysit and monitor changes that fundamentally alter the game, I think it's a way for BI to rationalize the costs of not starting a new project, at the expense of the end user. I just want to make use of what opportunities in my life that I have to play and actually ENJOY IT as opposed to trying to figure out how the game was screwed around and why a scenario I made the previous patch runs like total garbage now, that constitutes a tremendous amount of disrespect to the consumer IMO. Features are great, don't get me wrong, but at some point I would absolutely prefer consistency beyond a certain point instead of playing each iteration of the game as if the next update will render my present experience of unachievable. You end up feeling as if something is being pointlessly taken away from you and if there is no apparent good reason, it makes somebody who paid money for the experience feel like their enjoyment of the product does not matter.

This would not be an issue if we did not have updates forced upon us, and why is that anyhow? Is it because of piracy? Because it seems entirely counterintuitive to deprive a paying customer of the ability to get off the update train when it no longer serves to benefit them and have that ability ostensibly facilitated for those who don't pay for the game at all.

There is no way any other company would get away with a-priori rationalizing why somebody who bought a game at 1.0 release who cannot play it now, or does so with a dramatic reduction in performance because so many changes were made. That's pants-on-head insane.

 

You have the option to turn off all updates on steam.. you have the option to drop out of dev branch too.

[focher 15]

Game is 3 years old and still getting some pretty major updates. Kudos to BIS. The frozen stuff gets fixed.

[KeyCat 131]

You have the option to turn off all updates on steam.. you have the option to drop out of dev branch too.

 

Do you mean by going off-line mode or are there a setting I missed?

 

It was possible to opt-out updates per game before but for some weird reason Valve removed that option!!

 

/KC

 

[Beagle 684]

I can give you one other example. Eagle Dynamics do exactly the same with the DCS series and most likely many other game developers. I think this is the price we have to pay for having new features added and bug fixed over time and eventually the developers will sort it out if they keep supporting their game like BIS does on a daily basis.

 

 

And just because EDs tendecy to release betas as payware and to break the core simulation and payware 3rd party modules with every update they lost me as a customer since I'm sick of beeing a paying betatester

[breech99 47]

Personally I prefer having an evolving game with features added - for free! - over a stagnant game any day! Sure in a perfect world everything would be included in version 1.00 and without one single bug but as you already know the world is not perfect.

 

Not really true. Everything from the 3d editor along with lighting, effects and features minus the expansion was listed from day one to be in the game when completed. It's just taking a crapload of time to get anywhere near a sense of completion. Never pay full price for this game. Thank god I got it back when it was $20.  So you talk about evolving. A true evolution would be to do a 64 bit game. But meh...too little too late as others will eat their lunch money.  It's great that this has been fun and nothing quite like it, but let's be clear, it's not getting added features, this is crap that was listed as if back in the day listed on the box cover. Soft deadlines are what are both slowing down game companies and making it drag on forever to get this game out of the gate complete or a sense of complete. Buyer beware. They should have worked out more of the program before even breathing a word that it's in progress. Then you have something to show for yourself and can open to testing. It's a rushed botch job but nothing like it as of yet.

[I give up 152]

Somehow I have to agree with the above described.

First I want to say that I love ARMA series, but that's a different subject.

Also I bought ARMA 3 in Alpha and after that the only thing that I got was Karts (mainly to make a video).

I am waiting for what it comes, then I will decide if I get it or not.

Despiste of the valuable and unique things related with ARMA there are a few other things linked to it that really sucks.

So, I will wait.

[chortles 263]

A true evolution would be to do a 64 bit game. But meh...too little too late as others will eat their lunch money.

By that measure any improvements/changes/the game itself would be futile before it was even released.

They should have worked out more of the program before even breathing a word that it's in progress.

At which point people then complain about lack of updates/reveals... I'm looking at you, Apex news/speculation thread.

[Wiki 1558]

Do you mean by going off-line mode or are there a setting I missed?

/KC

No. In the properties of the game, you can chose "never keep the game updated", it should shut them off.

[Jackal326 1158]

No. In the properties of the game, you can chose "never keep the game updated", it should shut them off.

That hasn't been an option for a long time now...

[PuFu 4591]

Not really true. Everything from the 3d editor along with lighting, effects and features minus the expansion was listed from day one to be in the game when completed.

false

It's just taking a crapload of time to get anywhere near a sense of completion.

again, false. please tell about ANY other game that has been continuously supported from day1 release to 3 years later...

 

Never pay full price for this game. Thank god I got it back when it was $20.

that actually says a lot about you

 

So you talk about evolving. A true evolution would be to do a 64 bit game.

really? why?

 

But meh...too little too late as others will eat their lunch money.  It's great that this has been fun and nothing quite like it, but let's be clear, it's not getting added features, this is crap that was listed as if back in the day listed on the box cover.

the second time you used the same false statement.

 

Soft deadlines are what are both slowing down game companies and making it drag on forever to get this game out of the gate complete or a sense of complete.

there were no soft deadlines. Neither are now.

 

Buyer beware. They should have worked out more of the program before even breathing a word that it's in progress. Then you have something to show for yourself and can open to testing. It's a rushed botch job but nothing like it as of yet.

they are already doing that. It is not their fault that statements like "we'll have a look into DX12" is taken by such as yourself as "they are gonna implement DX12 soon"

[KeyCat 131]

And just because EDs tendecy to release betas as payware and to break the core simulation and payware 3rd party modules with every update they lost me as a customer since I'm sick of beeing a paying betatester

 

I know what you mean but at least in DCS case you can opt out any updates (unless you bought it from Steam).

 

...but let's be clear, it's not getting added features, this is crap that was listed as if back in the day listed on the box cover.

 

Maybe I'm just old and blind but I never saw what you are stating above? Regarding added - free - features that been on many players wishlist since OFP days is IMO great to finally have in.

 

No. In the properties of the game, you can chose "never keep the game updated", it should shut them off.

 

That's the thing! Valve removed that option quite a while ago and I have no idea why they did something stupid like that?

 

/KC

 

[breech99 47]

false

again, false. please tell about ANY other game that has been continuously supported from day1 release to 3 years later...

 

that actually says a lot about you

 

really? why?

 

the second time you used the same false statement.

 

there were no soft deadlines. Neither are now.

 

they are already doing that. It is not their fault that statements like "we'll have a look into DX12" is taken by such as yourself as "they are gonna implement DX12 soon"

You don't know me Pufu. take it to IM or it will be considered harassment.

 

Tons of games have continual support, Matrix online, Guild Wars, Second Life, etc, etc.  Many games have support for 12+ years and improve. Just stating Buyer beware and it's a business. Money for product and services. These current gen games, now have no real deadlines, no promises or false promises of any product. The product has a shelf life and people lose interest and move on. These aren't false statements. Take or leave it. The consumer will show what will become of it.  I really don't have to answer this and I really don't care. Have fun.   Peace out.

[Defunkt 431]

A true evolution would be to do a 64 bit game.

I can assure you compiling as a 64-bit executable would mean absolutely nothing unless it was accompanied by a ground-up rewrite of the engine, at the very least the way it stores and streams data. That wouldn't be evolution but rather revolution and generally it's not a successful formula in software development.

 

Those studios that have the money to build a new state-of-the-art engine from scratch don't then dabble in niche markets or titles that support user-made missions and modding, they churn out cookie-cutter re-skins of the same formula year after year because that's how they can guarantee a return on the massive investment. For all its faults I still thank the heavens for these mad, crazy-ambitious Czechs and the fact that Arma exists at all - you would too if you had a clue.

[breech99 47]

I can assure you compiling as a 64-bit executable would mean absolutely nothing unless it was accompanied by a ground-up rewrite of the engine, at the very least the way it stores and streams data. That wouldn't be evolution but rather revolution and generally it's not a successful formula in software development.

 

Those studios that have the money to build a new state-of-the-art engine from scratch don't then dabble in niche markets or titles that support user-made missions and modding, they churn out cookie-cutter re-skins of the same formula year after year because that's how they can guarantee a return on the massive investment. For all its faults I still thank the heavens for these mad, crazy-ambitious Czechs and the fact that Arma exists at all - you would too if you had a clue.

This is so true. making it just 64 bit won't do jack. It needs a rebuild. It's a single threaded piece of crap. But too little too late. Even these new patches out this week broke the damn thing.  It's been much appreciated over the years, but it's disappointing to see it not working smoothly right before a nice expansion. I have the right to not settle for less and want to see quality work from these people.  Speaking of huge studios, look at how they botched up star wars. Just tossing time and money at something doesn't make it good. We still have to see how Star Citizen will turn out.

[PuFu 4591]

You don't know me Pufu.

i know and i am really glad that i don't. But i know your type...

or it will be considered harassment.

haha, good one: you're  for 'murica are you not?

 

Tons of games have continual support, Matrix online, Guild Wars, Second Life, etc, etc.  Many games have support for 12+ years and improve.

So, you compare a game that doesn't have either monthly subscription or ingame micro-transaction (pay to win) with the ones that have? In that case you missed a lot of the games from your list that have a subscription based system...

 

Just stating Buyer beware and it's a business. Money for product and services. These current gen games, now have no real deadlines, no promises or false promises of any product. The product has a shelf life and people lose interest and move on. These aren't false statements. Take or leave it. The consumer will show what will become of it.  I really don't have to answer this and I really don't care. Have fun.   Peace out.

they are false statements because the logic you used to get to the conclussions you have is flawed to begin with.

 

This is so true. making it just 64 bit won't do jack. It needs a rebuild. It's a single threaded piece of crap. But too little too late. Even these new patches out this week broke the damn thing.  It's been much appreciated over the years, but it's disappointing to see it not working smoothly right before a nice expansion.

So you are actually expecting a game developer to full re-write huge chunks of their code for a product that they already sold to get it to 64bit? really?

I have the right to not settle for less and want to see quality work from these people.  Speaking of huge studios, look at how they botched up star wars. Just tossing time and money at something doesn't make it good. We still have to see how Star Citizen will turn out.

You have the right to bitch about it, yes, and that's precisely what you've been doing. That said, you don't have any other rights since you payed 20$ 3 years ago for a game that, in this industry, where cost of development doesn't come cheep, and selling games is a business no matter how you put it, would have lost support ages ago, and all focus would have been only on trying to sell you the next DLC, that would be containing stuff that would have been done long time ago and removed from the main game on purpose so they can sell the 2 skins and 3 guns later on for you.