Greece navigating "uncharted territory"

[gammadust 12]

The developing story that may change Europe reached a turning point. After hesitating in posting this in the European Politics thread, i believe the events themselves and future developements justify a proper thread. Not whishing to guide too much the eventual discussions that may arise, i am particularly interested in views actual greeks may share here. In any case this definitely concerns all European Union country members in their political-economic relations. And perhaps of particular interest to those countries attempting to access the Eurozone.

Warning extensive spoilers, open at your time availability's peril

[bBC] 28 June 2015 - Greece debt crisis: MPs back referendum on bailout

Greece's parliament has backed plans for a referendum on its international creditors' terms for a new bailout.

The 5 July referendum was called by PM Alexis Tsipras, who urged voters to reject the proposal, which demanded reforms in return for loans.

The country's creditors have refused funding to save Greece from defaulting on a €1.6bn (£1.1bn) IMF repayment due on Tuesday.

The country's future in the eurozone looks increasingly at risk.

Mr Tsipras' motion on a referendum easily won backing in the 300-member strong parliament, with at least 179 MPs voting in favour in the early hours of Sunday.

Speaking just before the vote, Mr Tsipras described the creditors' proposal as "an insulting ultimatum" and said an emphatic "no" vote on 5 July would strengthen Greece's negotiating position.

His government had earlier rejected the creditors' offer of a five-month extension to Greece's bailout programme in exchange for reforms.

On Saturday, eurozone finance ministers rejected the Greek proposal for the bailout extension beyond Tuesday's deadline. A Eurogroup statement said Greece had broken off negotiations over a new bailout deal "unilaterally".

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28 June 2015 -

Yesterday's Eurogroup decision to not approve the Greek government’s request for a few days’ extension of the program to give the Greek people a chance to decide by referendum on the institutions’ ultimatum constitutes an unprecedented challenge to European affairs an action that seeks to bar the right of a sovereign people to exercise their democratic prerogative.

A high and sacred right: the expression of opinion. The Eurogroup’s decision prompted the ECB to not increase liquidity to Greek banks and forced the Bank of Greece to recommend that banks remain closed as well as restrictive measures on withdrawals. It is clear that the objective of the Eurogroup’s and ECB’s decisions is to attempt to blackmail the will of the Greek people and to hinder democratic processes, namely holding the referendum.

They will not succeed. These decisions will only serve to bring about the very opposite result. They will further strengthen the resolve of the Greek people to reject the unacceptable memorandum proposals and the institutions’ ultimatums.

One thing remains certain. The refusal of an extension of a few short days and the attempt to cancel a purely democratic process is an insult and a great disgrace to Europe’s democratic traditions. For this reason, I sent a short extension request again today this time to the President of the European Council and to the 18 Heads of State of the Eurozone as well as to the heads of the ECB, the European Commission and the European Parliament.

I am awaiting their immediate response to this fundamentally democratic request. They are the only ones who immediately can - even tonight - reverse the Eurogroup’s decision and enable the ECB to restore liquidity to the banks. What is needed in the coming days is composure and patience. The bank deposits in the Greek banks are entirely secure. This holds true for the payment of wages and pensions, as well.

We will deal with any difficulties with calmness and determination. The more calmly we confront difficulties, the sooner we will overcome them and the milder their consequences will be.

Today, we have the chance to prove to ourselves - and indeed, to the world - that justice can prevail. Once again, we have a historic opportunity to send a message of hope and dignity to Europe and the world. In these critical hours, as we face history together, we must remember that the only thing to fear is fear itself.

We will not allow it to overcome us. We will succeed.

The dignity of the Greek people in the face of blackmail and injustice will send a message of hope and pride to all of Europe.

- Alexis Tsipras

[video=youtube;wbAz430ADMA]

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[Press office - General Secretariat of the Council] 27 June 2015 - Eurogroup statement on Greece

Since the 20 February 2015 agreement of the Eurogroup on the extension of the current financial assistance arrangement, intensive negotiations have taken place between the institutions and the Greek authorities to achieve a successful conclusion of the review. Given the prolonged deadlock in negotiations and the urgency of the situation, institutions have put forward a comprehensive proposal on policy conditionality, making use of the given flexibility within the current arrangement. Regrettably, despite efforts at all levels and full support of the Eurogroup, this proposal has been rejected by the Greek authorities who broke off the programme negotiations late on the 26 June unilaterally. The Eurogroup recalls the significant financial transfers and support provided to Greece over the last years. The Eurogroup has been open until the very last moment to further support the Greek people through a continued growth-oriented programme. The Eurogroup takes note of the decision of the Greek government to put forward a proposal to call for a referendum, which is expected to take place on Sunday July 5, which is after the expiration of the programme period. The current financial assistance arrangement with Greece will expire on 30 June 2015, as well as all agreements related to the current Greek programme including the transfer by euro area Member States of SMP and ANFA equivalent profits. The euro area authorities stand ready to do whatever is necessary to ensure financial stability of the euro area.

[1] Supported by all members of the Eurogroup except the Greek member.

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[Zerohedge] 28 June 2015 - Greek Capital Controls Begin: Greek Banks, Stock Market Will Not Open On Monday

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[Global Research] 27 June 2015 - Greece – The Delphi Declaration

During the weekend of 20 and 21 June 2015 a forum of international scholars, scientists, economists, sociologists, political analysts – met in Delphi Greece to discuss Greece and Europe. The organizers were the so-called “Delphi Initiativeâ€, sponsored by the Lyssarides Foundation in Cyprus, the Greek Institute for Research on Political Strategies, the Russian Institute for Globalization and Social Movements, and the Forum Mondial des Alternatives, France.

The forum ended with a

and with the issuance of The Delphi Declaration – see below.

The world must realize that the so-called troika – IMF, European Central Bank and European Commission, is literally blackmailing Greece and subjecting her to outright economic torture.

During the past days, Mr. Tsipras, Greece’s Prime Minister, has made considerable concessions to the creditors in Brussels and Washington – but none were good enough. Instead they, the notorious troika, have presented Greece with an austerity package which is simply unacceptable for the Government – and for the people.

Pensions have already been cut by close to 50% to an unlivable level especially for the poor – the troika requires more cuts. Already now most of public services and assets have been privatized, hospitals and schools closed – they want more. The public administration has already been reduced to a minimum, causing huge unemployment – they want more. They also want additional taxes which further affect the poor.

In short, they want to cause a political upheaval in Greece, creating chaos – what the Brussels / Washington gang knows best and is famous for – and, as usual – the end goal is “Regime Changeâ€. How dare the Greek people voting for a socialist government in an otherwise fully neoliberal Europe, western world? They must be punished.

But Regime Change shall not happen. I have just published an article – Greece – The Way Out - that offers other solutions, solutions that will allow Greece to find back to her bearings and her economic recovery.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the-way-out-troika-involved-in-financial-terrorism-its-economic-waterboarding/5458500

Thank you for your solidarity.

THE DELPHI DECLARATION

On Greece and Europe

European governments, European institutions and the IMF, acting in close alliance with, if not under direct control of, big international banks and other financial institutions, are now exercising a maximum of pressure, including open threats, blackmailing and a slander and terror communication campaign against the recently elected Greek government and against the Greek people.

They are asking the elected government of Greece to continue the “bail-out†program and the supposed “reforms†imposed on this country in May 2010, in theory to “help†and “save†it.

As a result of this program, Greece has experienced by far the biggest economic, social and political catastrophe in the history of Western Europe since 1945. It has lost 27% of its GDP, more than the material losses of France or Germany during the First World War. The living standards have fallen sharply. The social welfare system is all but destroyed. Greeks have seen social rights won during one century of struggles taken back. Whole social strata are completely destroyed, more and more Greeks are falling from their balconies to end a life of misery and desperation, every talented person who can leaves from the country. Democracy, under the rule of a “Troika†acting as collective economic assassin, a kind of Kafka’s “Courtâ€, has been transformed into a sheer formality in the very country where it was born! Greeks are experiencing now the same feeling of insecurity about all basic conditions of life, that the French experienced in 1940, Germans in 1945, Soviets in 1991. At the same time, the two problems which this program was supposed to address, Greek sovereign debt and the competitiveness of the Greek economy have sharply deteriorated.

Now, European institutions and governments are refusing even the most reasonable, elementary, minor concession to the Athens government, they refuse even the slightest face-saving formula there might be. They want a total surrender of SYRIZA, they want its humiliation, its destruction. By denying to the Greek people any peaceful and democratic way out of its social and national tragedy, they are pushing Greece into chaos, if not civil war. Indeed, even now, an undeclared social civil war of “low intensity†is being waged inside this country, especially against the unprotected, the ill, the young and the very old, the weaker and the unlucky. Is this the Europe we want our children to live in?

We want to express our total, unconditional solidarity with the struggle of the Greek people for their dignity, their national and social salvation, for their liberation from the unacceptable neocolonial rule the “Troika†is trying to impose on this European country. We denounce the illegal and unacceptable agreements successive Greek governments have been obliged, under threat and blackmail, to sign, in violation of all European treaties, of the Charter of UN and of the Greek constitution. We call on European governments and institutions to stop their irresponsible and/or criminal policy towards Greece immediately and adopt a generous emergency program of support to redress the Greek economic situation and face the humanitarian disaster already unfolding in this country.

We also appeal to all European peoples to realize that what is at stake in Greece it is not only Greek salaries and pensions, Greek schools and hospitals or even the fate even of this historic nation where the very notion of “Europe†was born. What is at stake in Greece are also Spanish, Italian, even the German salaries, pensions, welfare, the very fate of the European welfare state, of European democracy, of Europe as such. Stop believing your media, who tell you the facts, only to distort their meaning, check independently what your politicians and your media are saying. They try to create, and they have created an illusion of stability. You may live in Lisbon or in Paris, in Frankfurt or in Stockholm, you may think that you are living in relative security. Do not keep such illusions. You should look to Greece, to see there the future your elites are preparing for you, for all of us and for our children. It is much easier and intelligent to stop them now, than it will be later. Not only Greeks, but all of us and our children will pay an enormous price, if we permit to our governments to complete the social slaughter of a whole European nation.

We appeal in particular to the German people. We do not belong to those who are always reminding the Germans of the past in order to keep them in an “inferiorâ€, second-class position, or in order to use the “guilt factor†for their dubious ends. We appreciate the organizational and technological skills of the German people, their proven democratic and especially ecological and peace sensitivities. We want and we need the German people to be the main champions in the building of another Europe, of a prosperous, independent, democratic Europe, of a multipolar world.

Germans know better than anybody else in Europe, where blind obedience to irresponsible leaders can lead and has indeed led in the past. It is not up to us to teach them any such lesson. They know better than anybody else how easy is to begin a campaign with triumphalist rhetoric, only to end up with ruins everywhere around you. We do not invite them to follow our opinion. We demand simply from them to think thoroughly the opinion of such distinguished leaders of them like Helmut Schmitt for instance, we demand them to hear the voice of the greatest among modern German poet, of Günter Grass, the terrible prophecy he has emitted about Greece and Europe some years before his death.

We call upon you, the German people, to stop such a Faustian alliance between German political elites and international finance. We call upon the German people not to permit to their government to continue doing to the Greeks exactly what the Allies did to Germans after their victory in the First World War. Do not let your elites and leaders to transform the entire continent, ultimately including Germany, into a dominion of Finance.

More than ever we are in urgent need of a radical restructuring of European debt, of serious measures to control the activities of the financial sector, of a “Marshal Plan†for the European periphery, of a courageous rethinking and re-launching of a European project which, in its present form, has proven unsustainable. We need to find now the courage to do this, if we want to leave a better Europe to our children, not a Europe in ruins, in continuous financial and even open military conflicts among its nations.

Delphi, 21 June 2015

The above declaration was adopted by nearly all participants in the Delphi conference on the crisis, on alternatives to euroliberalism and EU/Russia relations, held at Delphi, Greece on 20-21st of June. It is also supported by some people who were not able to be present. The list of people who signed it follows. In it there are not only citizens of EU countries, but also of Switzerland, USA, Russia and India.

Many distinguished American scholars seem to be more sensitive as regard the European crisis, than the … political leaders of EU themselves! As for Russians, it is only normal and natural to bear a great interest for what is going on in EU, as EU citizens bear also an interest for what is going on in Russia. All participants in the Delphi conference share the strong conviction that Russia is an integral part of Europe, that there is a strong interconnection between what happens in EU and in Russia. They are categorically opposed to anti-Russia hysteria, which in fact is nothing less than the preparation of a new, even more dangerous cold, if not hot war.

[Subscribers o the declaration follow]

Edited June 29, 2015 by gammadust

[mistyronin 1181]

All the Greek situation is really weird. :confused:

The Greek Gov. waits until one week after the deadline to call for a referendum on the agreement where the Greek Gov promotes the no (which on itself it's already strange, Govs don't tend to defend the negative to their own question).

A referendum that if the "Yes" wins (which seems to be the most probable) they will have to call for elections, or at least abandon the Gov. as I guess Tspiras is not willing to negotiate the agreement that he doesn't want.

So, is Tsipras committing his political suicide? :j:

(Reuters) Greek opinion poll shows 57 percent favor deal with lenders

The survey by the Alco polling institute published in Sunday's edition of the Proto Thema newspaper, said 57 percent of 1,000 respondents were in favor of reaching a deal, while 29 percent wanted a break with creditors.

Pollsters Kapa Research said 47.2 percent of respondents were in favor of an accord and 33 percent against, according to To Vima newspaper. Its 1,005 respondents were asked how they would vote if a new "painful" agreement were put to the vote in a referendum.

Some 48.3 percent of respondents in the Kapa poll said they would not support any move by the government which could place Greece outside the euro zone.

[Jastreb 69]

I don't trust those polls. But I also dont know how much Greeks are in line with its EU perspective.

From my point, EUCB and IMF pushed Greece in debt slavery, deliberately. Acting like, oh you got some holes in the budget! Worry not, here is the credit. And on what terms and interest rates, nobody knows. So when they cant pay off, they offer credit to finance credit. The hell? Isn't that pushing country and its people to enormous debt, and eventually Greece losing it sovereignty?

I come from the part of the world which was happy once upon a time, it will join EU, but that is not the case anymore. Peoples aren't blind. I hope Greeks aren't too.

Where does this leads? Some more rough time for Greek economy and people. And some key points of interests in global map of the world changing, hopefully for the better...some day.

#GreXit

[mistyronin 1181]

From my point, EUCB and IMF pushed Greece in debt slavery, deliberately. Acting like, oh you got some holes in the budget! Worry not, here is the credit. And on what terms and interest rates, nobody knows. So when they cant pay off, they offer credit to finance credit. The hell? Isn't that pushing country and its people to enormous debt, and eventually Greece losing it sovereignty?

You should have in mind that just few years ago the Greek Gov. was spending twice their GDP.

Imagine that your salary is $1,000 every month. But you spend $2,000 each month... How could that work?

And that happened before the EUCB and IMF interventions.

[gammadust 12]

And that happened before the EUCB and IMF interventions.

[spiegel Online] 08 February 2010 - Greek Debt Crisis: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government to mask the true extent of its deficit with the help of a derivatives deal that legally circumvented the EU Maastricht deficit rules. At some point the so-called cross currency swaps will mature, and swell the country's already bloated deficit.

(...)

Greece's debt managers agreed a huge deal with the savvy bankers of US investment bank Goldman Sachs at the start of 2002. The deal involved so-called cross-currency swaps in which government debt issued in dollars and yen was swapped for euro debt for a certain period -- to be exchanged back into the original currencies at a later date.

[mistyronin 1181]

[spiegel Online] 08 February 2010 - Greek Debt Crisis: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

Yup, that is another subject... How the Greek Gov. falsified the data to join the Eurozone... And with all this past, the Greek Gov. still today asks for more money from the EU...

(Financial Times) Greece condemned for falsifying data

Greece was condemned by the European Commission on Tuesday for falsifying data about its public finances and allowing political pressures to obstruct the collection of accurate statistics.

[kavoven 4]

This is a very interesting and typical situation that starts to remind me remind me of a game theory situation (prisoner's dilemma)... Just typed a long text until I reconized that somebody else has already done a great job:

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-29/john-nash-s-game-theory-and-greece

I don't think there will be a proper solution though I guess that Greece will suffer much much more from the inability of its stupid leaders to cooperate. Greece has been a black hole sucking money without returning anything and without showing any will to adress the issues that lead to their failures.

[ProfTournesol 956]

While i see this topic as a good incentive for all anti EU and pro Putin people to jump on the "look at what the evil EU is doing" bandwagon, this sad story shows why not paying taxes cannot be a national sport.

But IMHO, Greek people must be helped and their debt should be mutualized, so that Greece can start from scratch.

Edited June 29, 2015 by ProfTournesol
My English skills went away

[mistyronin 1181]

But IMHO, Greek people must be helped and their debt should be mutualized, so that Greece can start from crash.

The issue is that the Greek leaders have been known in the last 50 years for corruption and bad management.

Helping their population would just be a bad temporary fix. Until the main problem is not solved, the situation would repeat itself.

Should we do like in Italy and add a "federal" send government? Should we give them directives to follow? Should we throw them from the Euro?

[Tonci87 163]

For the last 50 years? Greece has gone into bankrupcy 5 times since 1826! Sometimes due to them falsifying their accounts, and mostly due to them spending much more than they earned. They are really making a habbit out of this. One should think that with such a history they would be thoroughly checked before beeing allowed into the Euro....

As I see the whole situation Greece really fucked up, but then the IMF pushed them into debt slavery and too little was done to ensure that the rich people who have been enjoying tax benefits for years or decades don´t pull their money out of the country (wich they have done by now). At the same time all austerity meassures have been directed at the middle and lower class wich made life for the average Greek miserable. And at the same time Germany for example was happy to sell the Greeks new Tanks and Submarines...

Basically everybody fucked up and now average Taxpayers have to pay the bill, especially the Greek ones.

[drebin052 323]

pro Putin people to jump on the "look at what the evil EU is doing" bandwagon

They can jump on that wagon as much as they want. No one, and certainly not the Kremlin (how's that recession going by the way?), is going to pour ~$350 billion into the Greek's self-imposed money sinkhole and call it a day.

[mistyronin 1181]

They can jump on that wagon as much as they want. No one, and certainly not the Kremlin (how's that recession going by the way?), is going to pour ~$350 billion into the Greek's self-imposed money sinkhole and call it a day.

Well, I'm not so sure about that "no one". China has a lot of interests in Greece, and it would be a step forward in converting the country into their bridgehead to Europe.

(Reuters) China says wants Greece in euro zone, pledges EU infrastructure investment

China's Premier Li Keqiang said on Monday he wants to see Greece remain in the euro zone and promised that Beijing would make investments in the European Union's new infrastructure fund.

He also pledged Chinese investment in the EU's new 315 billion euro infrastructure plan launched by European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, as well as saying Beijing would buy European Investment Bank bonds.

(Wall Street Journal) China Stocks Fall Into Bear Market as Rate Cut Fails to End Rout

Other Asian markets end lower on the Greek crisis, while the Japanese yen gets a lift from its perceived safe-haven status

Edited June 29, 2015 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

Interesting read

Greece Has a Long History of Debt and Bankruptcy

http://www.vice.com/read/the-history-of-greek-debt-and-bankruptcy-8876?utm_source=homepage

[drebin052 323]

(Reuters) China says wants Greece in euro zone, pledges EU infrastructure investment

Plans for investment throughout the EU (bar Greece) were already in the works a while ago, so that's not really a shocker. But there was no word on an actual bailout from China for Greece, and instead they want Greece to "stay" with the EU which is a pretty clear sign that they want to stay well away from Greece's problems.

China has a lot of interests in Greece, and it would be a step forward in converting the country into their bridgehead to Europe.

Beijing can and will buy as many ports as it wants but that doesn't equate to investing into the economy.

The alternative for Greece is to hopefully transition from German life support to Chinese instead (which is highly unlikely at this point), but that will merely make it worse for the Greeks even after a default since it isn't going to solve their long term fiscal problems at all.

[vran. 13]

I don't understand how a nation that used to be the cradle of European/Western civilization in the ancient times and has so much things (water, islands, tourism, good climate the whole year) can be 'broke' in today's times. I guess there is just too much corruption at the state level or the crediting/debt system simply doesn't function. I don't buy the notion that the Greek people somehow imposed that upon themselves. That would be underestimating a whole nation. Worth noting is that most Southern (& Eastern) part of Europe is full of corruption and 'under the belt' business. It would be better if the Scandinavian/Nordic model would be followed, where corruption rates are said to be low and individual freedom valued.

[Tonci87 163]

I don't understand how a nation that used to be the cradle of European/Western civilization in the ancient times and has so much things (water, islands, tourism, good climate the whole year) can be 'broke' in today's times. I guess there is just too much corruption at the state level or the crediting/debt system simply doesn't function. I don't buy the notion that the Greek people somehow imposed that upon themselves. That would be underestimating a whole nation. Worth noting is that most Southern (& Eastern) part of Europe is full of corruption and 'under the belt' business. It would be better if the Scandinavian/Nordic model would be followed, where corruption rates are said to be low and individual freedom valued.

Look how much they used to spend on their army. That alone is insane. Their baks used to give credits for anything, without adequate coverage. Take that together with their reluctance (especially amongst businessmen) to pay their damn taxes and there you have it.

There is no deniying that the Greek governments brought this crysis upon themselves, but the rest of Europe did little to stop them or to help them when it became obvious that they are in deep trouble.

[Beagle 684]

At the same time all austerity meassures have been directed at the middle and lower class wich made life for the average Greek miserable. And at the same time Germany for example was happy to sell the Greeks new Tanks and Submarines...

Basically everybody fucked up and now average Taxpayers have to pay the bill, especially the Greek ones.

Only that Greece has never paid a cent for neither the Class 214 submarines nor the Leopard II HEL tanks till today. Instead the deal was made with a federal bond, and in the end the german tax payer had to pay once again. The geman ax payer also has to pay the 57 Billion bond if Greece does not pay for the IMF credit.

[Tonci87 163]

Only that Greece has never paid a cent for neither the Class 214 submarines nor the Leopard II HEL tanks till today. Instead the deal was made with a federal bond, and in the end the german tax payer had to pay once again. The geman ax payer also has to pay the 57 Billion bond if Greece does not pay for the IMF credit.

And why give them those things in the first place? It only puts them deeper into debt and of course raises the interest they have to pay. This is unresponsible from both the Greek and the German government, but hey, the German taxpayer will gladly pay to keep the German weapons manufacturers happy, thats tradition by now.

[mistyronin 1181]

Look how much they used to spend on their army. That alone is insane.

Well, having the Turkish Army breathing on their nape, may not feel not nice. But yeah... they should have fix their stuff a while ago.

There is no deniying that the Greek governments brought this crysis upon themselves, but the rest of Europe did little to stop them or to help them when it became obvious that they are in deep trouble.

I agree partially. Most of EU countries didn't know the real balance of the Greek economy until few years ago.

I'm afraid that I foresee Greece exiting the Eurozone in a few days (only the Eurozone, not the EU).

[x3kj 1247]

Is there any real issue with them leaving? It's not like that we would see any money back from them if they stayed, because broke is broke.

[srbknight 925]

London protests "Cancel Greek Debt"

Green Party MP Caroline Lucas will join hundreds of activists in central London on Monday to stand in solidarity with the Greeks. They warn the ECB’s threat of cutting off funding to Greece is “an act of financial war†by “unelected technocrats.â€

http://rt.com/uk/270487-greek-solidarity-protest-london/

[gammadust 12]

[European Commission] 28 June 2015 - Information from the European Commission on the latest draft proposals in the context of negotiations with Greece

Brussels, 28 June 2015

In the interest of transparency and for the information of the Greek people, the European Commission is publishing the latest proposals agreed among the three institutions (European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund), which take into account the proposals of the Greek authorities of 8, 14, 22 and 25 June 2015 as well as the talks at political and technical level throughout the week.

Discussions on this text were ongoing with the Greek authorities on Friday night in view of the Eurogroup of 27 June 2015. The understanding of all parties involved was that this Eurogroup meeting should achieve a comprehensive deal for Greece, one that would have included not just the measures to be jointly agreed, but would also have addressed future financing needs and the sustainability of the Greek debt. It also included support for a Commission-led package for a new start for jobs and growth in Greece, boosting recovery of and investment in the real economy, which was discussed and endorsed by the College of Commissioners on Wednesday 24 June 2015.

However, neither this latest version of the document, nor an outline of a comprehensive deal could be formally finalised and presented to the Eurogroup due to the unilateral decision of the Greek authorities to abandon the process on the evening of 26 June 2015.

Draft Proposal - 26 June 2015

vs

Via Google Translation

[The DAWN Online] 24 June 2015 - The full text of the Greek proposal, signed Al. Tsipras

In a 10 page text submitted by the Greek Government to the lenders and which is signed by Alexis Tsipras, included all the Greek proposals for measures to bring to the public funds of 7.9 euros. Of these, 7.3 billion. Euros from tax increases and social security contributions.

The proposal of Athens is already in the hands of technical cadres which will process as the convening, tomorrow night, the Eurogroup, to reach agreement with partners and to reopen the flow of credit to our country.

In the text there is a clear commitment that by July 1 will be adopted supplementary budget, as new medium-term financial plan for the period up to 2018.

The full text (in English), the proposal is as follows:

Greek proposal - 22 June 2015

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An official source of the Greek proposal would be preferable, since it is hard for me to validate the above, it appears to be a leak of Tsipras - Junkers correspondence, i share also Yannis Varoufakis take on the subject:

[Yannis Varoufakis] 18 June 2015 - Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis: My intervention at today’s Eurogroup

The only antidote to propaganda and malicious ‘leaks’ is transparency. After so much disinformation on my presentation at the Eurogroup of the Greek government’s position, the only response is to post the precise words uttered within. Read them and judge for yourselves whether the Greek government’s proposals constitute a basis for agreement.

[Yannis Varoufakis] 28 June 2015 - As it happened – Yanis Varoufakis’ intervention during the 27th June 2015 Eurogroup Meeting

The Eurogroup Meeting of 27th June 2015 will not go down as a proud moment in Europe’s history. Ministers turned down the Greek government’s request that the Greek people should be granted a single week during which to deliver a Yes or No answer to the institutions’ proposals – proposals crucial for Greece’s future in the Eurozone. The very idea that a government would consult its people on a problematic proposal put to it by the institutions was treated with incomprehension and often with disdain bordering on contempt. I was even asked: “How do you expect common people to understand such complex issues?â€. Indeed, democracy did not have a good day in yesterday’s Eurogroup meeting! But nor did European institutions. After our request was rejected, the Eurogroup President broke with the convention of unanimity (issuing a statement without my consent) and even took the dubious decision to convene a follow up meeting without the Greek minister, ostensibly to discuss the “next stepsâ€.

Can democracy and a monetary union coexist? Or must one give way? This is the pivotal question that the Eurogroup has decided to answer by placing democracy in the too-hard basket. So far, one hopes.

Edited June 30, 2015 by gammadust

[mistyronin 1181]

Green Party MP Caroline Lucas will join hundreds of activists in central London on Monday to stand in solidarity with the Greeks. They warn the ECB’s threat of cutting off funding to Greece is “an act of financial war†by “unelected technocrats.â€

http://rt.com/uk/270487-greek-solidarity-protest-london/

Uhm, more absurd RT propaganda.

So...

1. I fake how much money I earn to get inside the Eurozone and borrow a lot of money from my colleagues.

2. Once it's shown that I won't be able to return the money, I ask for a renegotiation of the debt.

3. I keep getting in debt, using even twice the money I earn.

4. I promise to my EU colleagues that if they pay me the interests, I will use the rest of my money to pay the debt.

5. I keep getting in debt buying military stuff and others.

6. My EU colleagues tell me that if I want more money from them I'll have to take certain measures.

7. I ignore them and keep getting in debt.

8. The EU guys give me an ultimatum with a deadline.

9. I ignore the deadline and ask for a referendum one week later...

10. I accuse the EU people of "an act of financial war".

:confused:

[srbknight 925]

Uhm, more absurd RT propaganda.

So...

1. I fake how much money I earn to get inside the Eurozone and borrow a lot of money from my colleagues.

2. Once it's shown that I won't be able to return the money, I ask for a renegotiation of the debt.

3. I keep getting in debt, using even twice the money I earn.

4. I promise to my EU colleagues that if they pay me the interests, I will use the rest of my money to pay the debt.

5. I keep getting in debt buying military stuff and others.

6. My EU colleagues tell me that if I want more money from them I'll have to take certain measures.

7. I ignore them and keep getting in debt.

8. The EU guys give me an ultimatum with a deadline.

9. I ignore the deadline and ask for a referendum one week later...

10. I accuse the EU people of "an act of financial war".

:confused:

old good propaganda huh?? i don't know why is everything for you propaganda you didn't even read the news sometimes you showing just hate on everything what i post

[krycek 349]

The hypocrisy of fraulein Merkel and her cohorts is quite astonishing,maybe she should open some history books and read how Spain and Greece helped Germany recover after the war with the dept cancellation.

Otherwise I agree that is 50-50% fault between past Greece political class and EU financial system,taking IMF dirty money with the condition that they impose extreme austerity measures(because this relaunches economy how???:annoy:) was like playing russian roulette with 5 bullets in the barrel.

After the lesson with IMF and Argentina was clear as sky that these fellows main aim is not to help countries,but put them into a permanent slavery.