Courtroom drama

[Guest]

NY Times Article

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> HE HAGUE, Oct. 1 — Two men intimately involved in dismantling the Yugoslav state came face to face today in a confrontation that was notable as a milestone in international law, and as the first encounter of two Balkan leaders in a court examining the region's wartime atrocities.

The president of Croatia, Stjepan Mesic, 69, was on the witness stand.

Slobodan Milosevic, 61, the Serbian leader charged with war crimes, including genocide, was in the dock.

The adversaries met under the bright lights of the international war crimes tribunal — both aging politicians, both important players in the period when Yugoslavia spiraled into nationalist warfare and tore apart. They had not seen each other for almost a decade.

Even before Mr. Mesic walked in, Mr. Milosevic called him a criminal.

What followed was an exceptional passage in Mr. Milosevic's trial.

The Croatian president accused Mr. Milosevic, who was long the Serbian leader and eventually the Yugoslav president, of staging land grabs to enlarge Serbia, and of provoking warfare that created "rivers of blood."

"He subordinated everything to his war goals, he was always working for the war option," said Mr. Mesic, facing the three judges and never turning toward the accused. Mr. Mesic told the court that in 1990 and 1991, Mr. Milosevic led a slow but well-prepared "coup" in which he seized control of the Yugoslav military and the National Bank, without regard for the Constitution and the collective presidency of Yugoslavia, fomented rebellion among Serbs outside Serbia and "destroyed Yugoslavia."

"Did the accused ever express concern for individual suffering?" the prosecutor asked.

"No," said Mr. Mesic, who was president of Yugoslavia for part of 1991 and who said he met Mr. Milosevic numerous times. "I never saw any sign of feeling in him, ever. All he had were goals he was implementing."

Mr. Mesic was the first head of state to appear as a witness at the tribunal, a landmark in international law in the view of several jurists following the trial.

"The world has changed," said Richard Dicker, an international lawyer who monitors the proceedings for the New York-based group Human Rights Watch. "This was remarkable, a sitting president testifying against a former president in an international criminal court. It's a harbinger of a future when there will be more trials like this."

During almost four hours of testimony, the Croatian president calmly took the court back over a decade, to the planning of the breakup of the Communist Yugoslavia. It had been created by Tito, who after World War II fashioned the jigsaw of six semiautonomous republics.

Prosecutors consider Mr. Mesic a vital witness because he was the last Croatian to have been president of the Yugoslav Federal Republic before its breakup. He assumed that position in July 1991.

Mr. Mesic confirmed that a crucial meeting took place at the end of March 1991 between Mr. Milosevic and the Croatian leader, Franjo Tudjman, who died in 1999. The two talked at the meeting about carving up Bosnia and Herzegovina and dividing it between them, he said. The meeting took place at Karadjorgevo, on the Serbia-Croatia border, three months before large-scale fighting began and Serbian rebels occupied a third of Croatian territory.

The meeting, which became public knowledge only a year later, was crucial because it signaled that dismemberment of the state would become a reality, Mr. Mesic said. Mr. Milosevic has always denied that such a meeting took place.

Mr. Mesic said he was not at the meeting, but that Mr. Tudjman briefed him and several other top politicians a few days later. "Tudjman had always been in favor of Bosnia and Herzegovina remaining one entity," said Mr. Mesic. "But after that meeting, Tudjman changed his opinion."

"Milosevic told him, `Franjo, you take Turkish Croatia, I don't need that,' " Mr. Mesic quoted Mr. Tudjman as saying. Turkish Croatia meant the northwestern corner of Bosnia, which had a large Muslim population. "The public did not know what was discussed in Karadjorgevo. But the agreement began to work on the ground. Separate parts of Bosnia began to announce their independence."

Throughout his testimony, Mr. Mesic presented himself as a peacemaker who, during the summer months of 1991 — as he held the rotating presidency of Yugoslavia, tried to avert war — called for talks and issued repeated warnings.

As war began, Mr. Mesic pleaded with the United Nations secretary general to intervene. He came away empty-handed. "I believe if international forces had come to the borders of Serbia and Croatia and Serbia and Bosnia there would have been no war," he told the court.

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[bn880 5]

I wouldn't trust either of them personally....

[DarkLight 0]

I hope Milosevic gets a hard punishment but i doubt it....

[ralphwiggum 6]

i want Miloshevic to recieve the harshest penalty of all time. watching 'American Idol' over and over again.  

on serious note, i don't know about that former Croatian President, but I say Milo deserves what he is getting now.

[VXR 9]

isnt that the guy that is now in the netherlands war crime court?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 02 2002,21:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wouldn't trust either of them personally....<span id='postcolor'>

The truth is that Mesic is rather innocent in the whole thing. He had no authority at all as the last Yugoslav president and he broke away pretty soon from Tudjman in Croatia and Tudjman's right-wing HDZ party.

Mesic was also one of the greatest advocate of peaceful solutions and has cooperated with the UN. He is certainly not a war criminal, he is not a nationalist (unlike the former Croatian president, Tudjman)  and he has done a lot work in ensuring the return of Serbian refugees to Croatia. IMO he is one of the few polititcians in the Balkans who has relatively clean hands.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">on serious note, i don't know about that former Croatian President, but I say Milo deserves what he is getting now.

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It is not the former, it's the current and that is what makes it quite unique.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hope Milosevic gets a hard punishment but i doubt it.... <span id='postcolor'>

Rest assured that he will. Even though the war tribunal has done a very sloppy job on preparing the case against Milosevic, one should keep in mind that this is a political conviction based on the international perception of Milosevic and not on some legal proof against him.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i want Miloshevic to recieve the harshest penalty of all time. watching 'American Idol' over and over again.

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I would rather die.

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Oct. 02 2002,15:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Oct. 02 2002,21:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wouldn't trust either of them personally....<span id='postcolor'>

The truth is that Mesic is rather innocent in the whole thing. He had no authority at all as the last Yugoslav president and he broke away pretty soon from Tudjman in Croatia and Tudjman's right-wing HDZ party.

Mesic was also one of the greatest advocate of peaceful solutions and has cooperated with the UN. He is certainly not a war criminal, he is not a nationalist (unlike the former Croatian president, Tudjman) and he has done a lot work in ensuring the return of Serbian refugees to Croatia. IMO he is one of the few polititcians in the Balkans who has relatively clean hands.<span id='postcolor'>

Oh really... I expected him to be another piece of work. From what you say he seems like a very good source.

Milesovic will probably end up dying at a very conveniant time. You just can't make some people pay for their stupidity. But we will see.

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

I watched quite a bit of that trial-episode today and it was funny to see how furious Milosevic got because he now faced someone he couldnt threaten. And he got nervous as hell, actually it was a pretty pittyful defense he did today (for himself)