DCS World an LockOn FC3 Released

[Macadam Cow 1]

I must apologize, what I said earlier about ED price tag wasn't exactly true.

This what Wags said :

Finally, on the matter of price, we price all products based on the financial investment compared to forecasted revenue based on two decades of experience. For those that think we make money hand over fist making these titles, you could not be more wildly mistaken. If we solely based price on what end users deemed the cost should be rather than based on actual development costs, we would have been out of business long ago. As it is, we are often lucky to break even on these products.

I'm deeply sorry, I didn't tried to fool you, I really thought what I said was true and I think you can see how it got mixed up in my memory.

An educated guess would be that ED main incomes comes from their military contracts.

Spooky Lynx, you keep repeating someone will take ED's place if they go down the toilet and I beg to differ.

Both KA-50 and A-10C were made possible only because ED got military contracts on them and find an agreement with respective armies to make a commercial product out of it.

They had access to information no other dev could have ever dreamed of.

If the civilian branch of ED goes down its military counter-part will most likely not.

If the American national guard asked a Russian company to take care of a desktop sim for them it means that company is probably really good at what they do, if not the best.

So if indeed there's someone to take their place they probably never will be able to reach the same level of fidelity simply because the information is not accessible !

Yes, you'll see FSX/CoD/LOMAC like flight simulation but with DCS ED is playing on a completely different level.

We're not talking about the future of flight sim but about the future of extremely realistic flight simulation. That's a big difference.

Before DCS this level of fidelity was only accessible to professionals...and falcon 4 owners :D

So yeah, I'm willing to bet one of my balls that if ED disappears there will be no one to fill that specific gap, no one.

And while I'm at it :

Yes, DCSW will soon allow unlimited online play for the Su-25T, regardless of a DCS purchase. This is a new change.

source

I don't know exactly but do A-10C and BS2 have ability to play at ease? .

Yes, there's an easy mode in DCS.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Macadam Cow

[spooky lynx 73]

If the DCS has easy mode it means there is no low amount of customers. Seems that ED doesn't have shortage of finances, especially if you talk about military contracts. So the reason, I'd say, is not in low income that is taken from their civil games. But just devil-may-care attitude to their fans. Why care about them if there are state customers?

[Macadam Cow 1]

I've never seen anyone playing DCS in game mode. People who are looking for that kind of game play ACE Combat or Hawx.

[spooky lynx 73]

I've never seen anyone playing DCS in game mode. People who are looking for that kind of game play ACE Combat or Hawx.

Me was one of them:) And my friends too.

[Macadam Cow 1]

Well, you're the first one I meet :P

I'm saying this without looking down on you, really, but why don't you play Ace combat or Hawx then ?

They're a lot more sexy and offer a wide range of flyable planes.

Paying $50 to only be able to play with one aircraft is a bit expensive, no ?

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, you're the first one I meet :P

I'm saying this without looking down on you, really, but why don't you play Ace combat or Hawx then ?

They're a lot more sexy and offer a wide range of flyable planes.

Paying $50 to only be able to play with one aircraft is a bit expensive, no ?

Real planes, real locations where I've been, ability to change difficulty and recreate some real wars, some modding available - it's worth paying its price (I speak about FC).

BTW, one aircraft playable - you mean DCS world with the modules like A-10 and Black shark?

[Derbysieger 11]

Yeah, he is obvieously talking about DCS:W + modules (A-10C, Ka-50, P-51D).

And you're the first I come across who would want to fly a DCS aircraft in game mode. If you just want to fly in game mode there is really no point in paying 40$ for a module with only one aircraft, right?

I don't think another company would step up should ED cease to exist so I really hope they will keep making modules for DCS:W.

I enjoy DCS Multiplayer greatly. There is nothing like it. And no matter what people say about their business practices - there is no alternative to DCS.

BTW you really don't need to read the flight manual to get the plane into the air and deploy its weapons (at least with the A-10C and the P-51D). I read a few parts of the flight manual and I printed the checklists, that's all. The interactive tutorials are usually enough to learn all the basics. And if it is still too intimidating there are always communities who are willing to help.

I fly with a small german/swiss group (about 8 people) and up to this point we were always able to get newbies into the air on their first day (I'm talking about the A-10C here; the P-51D, while much simpler on a technical level, is so much more difficult to fly and there are only two or three of us who can effectively deploy the Ka-50 with it's weapons but everyone can fly the A-10C).

[Beagle 684]

The mein problem here in again is that they once again mix High fidelity and difficult to mastzer simulation with midcore simplified aircraft and system like FC3. I hated this in FC2 when you struggeld to do your stuff in Ka-50 and Su-25 while the MiG and Su-27/33 jockeyed just bullied around and destroyed you on the ground by simply touching you with their nearly indestructable planes while taking off on the taxiway. in FC2 a MiG can literally drive through a Su-25 or Kamov without any system failures while the ACM aircraft will fall appart...same goes for missile damage...the ACM aircraft are hard to keep flaing while the SFM aircraft keep on flying anf often fighting after gettingn by Missile Shrapnel. It's simply not fair to mix Hardcore and Midcore in one environtment and DCS was suppose to stop that....not its like in DCS:BS and FC2 again.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, I don't know any significant reason not to have both ACM and SFM together, switchable. Or at least having all the planes in SFM and some switchable to ACM.

[Beagle 684]

Well, I don't know any significant reason not to have both ACM and SFM together, switchable. Or at least having all the planes in SFM and some switchable to ACM.

You wil notice the diffeence in a dogfight when you in AFM has to fight to fly and the one in SFM turns corner around you on rails. and has a simplifier damage model. its not hard to see whats going wrong here.

[Derbysieger 11]

That is true, however it's also dependend on the mission. I don't see a problem to get some FC3 F-15C pilots to protect DCS: A-10C pilots during a coop mission or even in a red vs blue scenario with a few russian aircraft if it is within a small community. On a public server I agree. There shouldn't be a mix of SFM and AFM aircraft because, well, it's public^^

But again that's the responsibility of the host/mission maker.

But imagine we'd get a F-15C on DCS level. Do you think SFM pilots would stand a chance against good(!) DCS pilots who would be able to share data with each other and also the AWACS? I would expect them to win because they have much better information and can engage much quicker. By the time they get into dogfight SFM Pilots should be outnumbered.

[Beagle 684]

That is true, however it's also dependend on the mission. I don't see a problem to get some FC3 F-15C pilots to protect DCS: A-10C pilots during a coop mission or even in a red vs blue scenario with a few russian aircraft if it is within a small community. On a public server I agree. There shouldn't be a mix of SFM and AFM aircraft because, well, it's public^^

But again that's the responsibility of the host/mission maker.

But imagine we'd get a F-15C on DCS level. Do you think SFM pilots would stand a chance against good(!) DCS pilots who would be able to share data with each other and also the AWACS? I would expect them to win because they have much better information and can engage much quicker. By the time they get into dogfight SFM Pilots should be outnumbered.

I don't see a modern DCS fighter for the next year to come so that's very hypothetical. Keep in mind that the 3rd party airplanes wil be SFM only...since ED does not give acces to AFM to 3rd parties. DCS wil turn into a midcore Sim. thats it...We can as well all start to play Strike figthers II again.

[Derbysieger 11]

True on the SFM part ;) but I don't agree with the mediocre part...

Well I've flown coop in the A-10C with two F-15C on CAP against AI controlled by a gamemaster. It was great but it's nothing that would work on a public server. So I agree that it is not a good idea to mix the two unless you fly in a small group or community on a (semi-)closed server.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Derbysieger

[Macadam Cow 1]

Keep in mind that the 3rd party airplanes wil be SFM only...since ED does not give acces to AFM to 3rd parties.

That's not true.

Yes, ED only provides the SFM to 3rd party developpers but nothing prevents them of doing an AFM and ED stated they would be willing to help.

So far every module (except the F22...obviously) developped for DCS:World aims at DCS KA-50/A-10C level of fidelity, flight model included

[Macadam Cow 1]

Upgraded models will be released for all the flyable aircraft in FC3, just not all at once.

source?

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=98303

See ? Sometimes I get my facts straight ;)

[maturin 12]

You wil notice the diffeence in a dogfight when you in AFM has to fight to fly and the one in SFM turns corner around you on rails. and has a simplifier damage model. its not hard to see whats going wrong here.

That begs the question why you're dogfighting a SFM Su-27 in a DCS ground attack aircraft anyway. DCS is realistic and thus lacks balance between aircraft types anyways. How the balance between DCS and FC content plays out in practice is not an open-and-shut case, as with the greater complexity of DCS comes a myriad of additional options in weapons handling, countermeasures and censors that the stripped-down planes have no access to. It's been argued ad nauseum on the DCS forums, so you present only one very biased opinion here.

And what's the alternative, anyway? It's physically impossible to make all the planes DCS quality, and restricting the types would make for no gameplay instead of flawed gameplay. The true problem is the lack of dedicated servers, or else hypersensitive types like yourself could play the game the way they want to and restrict plane types.

[GGTharos 10]

No, you will not. Sounds like you problem is taking aircraft not designed to do air to air work and somehow wishing, hoping that they should be able to challenge a fighter. An AFM fighter is likely to turn better than an SFM one due to better modeling of edge conditions like high AoA. Investing some serious time in learning BFM might help you make better judgements here.

You wil notice the diffeence in a dogfight when you in AFM has to fight to fly and the one in SFM turns corner around you on rails.

Yes, it has a simpler damage model, but things hitting it will still knock that SFM fighter out of the sky. FYI, I can fight with my AFM planes taking damage too, about as often as I can with the SFM ones.

and has a simplifier damage model. its not hard to see whats going wrong here.

[Macadam Cow 1]

When I saw your name here, GGTharos,

came to my mind :D

[GGTharos 10]

Oddly enough I was ... walking through some catacombs recently :D

[Derbysieger 11]

World is now running beautiful for me. It almost never dips below 30fps (*cough* CBU-87 *cough*); most of the time it stays at a solid 60fps (vsync) Multiplayer and Singleplayer (high settings, 2xAA, no HDR, no TXAA, mirrors enabled). I'm mostly flying medium/small custom missions with a few german speaking guys.

Me, fooling around in the singleplayer: