ARMA 2: Community Configuration Project (A2CCP)

[On_Sabbatical 11]

What I have tested so far is mostly infantry and IFV gameplay. And I really like what I see. The Bradley is a real killer machine now. Against infantry and technicals/wheeled APC it is a real blast.

The canon has been improved ? because before it was just useless,50 AP bullets couldn't kill a BRDM2 !

I hope also that we get an 500 RPM option for the canon too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242_Bushmaster

@Kju

There are a lot of improvements to make on HE rounds: on the vanilla game and for now T55's HE round is more powerful than Abrams one ...it's obvious that something is wrong here ! BMP3's one is the most effective and it's a 100 mm HE.

Also,30 mm HE rounds for BMPs and planes could be improved further ! a 30 mm HE round should really feel punchy when it hits,not just like smoke puffs everywhere with minor effect !

I like the way they did it for the warrior's HE though !

Edited November 13, 2012 by On_Sabbatical

[Beagle 684]

Another problem with the Bushmaster 25 in ArmA is the range and MUzzle velocity...the gun is definately 50% underpowered.

See CIT in my Signature

[Guess Who 10]

The canon has been improved ? because before it was just useless,50 AP bullets couldn't kill a BRDM2 !

I hope also that we get an 500 RPM option for the canon too:

I didn't talk about the cannon nor its hit value. I talked about its use by AI gunners (which is really amazing now). That's a little bit of a difference. And I agree that the effectiveness of the 25mm AP rounds could be improved ...

[.kju 3240]

Sorry guys - again this is way to unspecific.

To give you some food for thought here are the current values:

B_127x108_APHE	hit = 24;	indirectHit = 5;	indirectHitRange = 0.1;
B_145x115_AP	hit = 31;	indirectHit = 0;	indirectHitRange = 0;
B_20mm_AP	hit = 40;	indirectHit = 10;	indirectHitRange = 2;
B_20mm_AA	hit = 57;	indirectHit = 20;	indirectHitRange = 0.4;
B_23mm_AA	hit = 84;	indirectHit = 30;	indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_HE	hit = 42;	indirectHit = 15;	indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_AP	hit = 108;	indirectHit = 0;	indirectHitRange = 0;
B_23mm_APHE	hit = 45;	indirectHit = 10;	indirectHitRange = 0.2;
B_25mm_HE	hit = 124;	indirectHit = 30;	indirectHitRange = 0.75;
B_25mm_HEI	hit = 42;	indirectHit = 25;	indirectHitRange = 0.75;
B_25mm_APDS	hit = 65;	indirectHit = 0;	indirectHitRange = 0;
B_30mm_AP	hit = 79;	indirectHit = 0;	indirectHitRange = 0;
B_30mmA10_AP	hit = 210;	indirectHit = 36;	indirectHitRange = 3;
B_30mm_HE	hit = 55;	indirectHit = 30;	indirectHitRange = 1;
B_30mm_AA	hit = 101;	indirectHit = 35;	indirectHitRange = 0.5;

[Beagle 684]

the wrong values are very obvious. In the way arma works it should be:

B_127x108_APHE    hit = 24;    indirectHit = 5;    indirectHitRange = 0.1;
B_145x115_AP    hit = 31;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_20mm_AP    hit = 40;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 2;
B_20mm_AA    hit = 57;    indirectHit = 20;    indirectHitRange = 0.4;
B_23mm_AA    hit = 84;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_HE    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 15;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_AP    hit = 108;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_23mm_APHE    hit = 45;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 0.2;
[color="#0000FF"]B_25mm_HE    hit = 65;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 1;[/color]
B_25mm_HEI    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 25;    indirectHitRange = 0.75;
[color="#0000FF"]B_25mm_APDS    hit = 124;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;[/color]
B_30mm_AP    hit = 79;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_30mmA10_AP    hit = 210;    indirectHit = 36;    indirectHitRange = 3;
B_30mm_HE    hit = 55;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 1;
B_30mm_AA    hit = 101;    indirectHit = 35;    indirectHitRange = 0.5;  

to me it looks lie HE and APDS was confused. The problem with Bushmaster having no manual range input in the vehicle.cfg LAV-25 havign no at all and M2/M3 M6 is limited to 1000m which is way inside the maximum effective range of 3000m....at least 2000m for zeroing range input would be more appropriate and remove the need to give both ammunition different trajectories.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Beagle

[Guess Who 10]

I agree with Beagle's AP value. The M242 Bushmaster in the M2A3 Bradley is firing 25mm APFSDS-T, right? Right now it takes ages to disable a BTR-60 with AP rounds. Should go more like the 40mm AP rounds from a warrior against a T-55. A salvo of 5 to 10 rounds should get rid of it ...

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242_Bushmaster

M919 Armor-Piercing, Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot With Tracer.

• The APFSDS-T round penetrates light armored vehicles, self-propelled artillery, and aerial targets, which includes helicopters and slow-moving fixed-wing aircraft. the dart is made of depleted uranium.
  

Let's tweak it ...

---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 AM ----------

the wrong values are very obvious. In the way arma works it should be:

B_127x108_APHE    hit = 24;    indirectHit = 5;    indirectHitRange = 0.1;
B_145x115_AP    hit = 31;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_20mm_AP    hit = 40;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 2;
B_20mm_AA    hit = 57;    indirectHit = 20;    indirectHitRange = 0.4;
B_23mm_AA    hit = 84;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_HE    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 15;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_AP    hit = 108;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_23mm_APHE    hit = 45;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 0.2;
[color=#0000ff]B_25mm_HE    hit = 65;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 1;[/color]
B_25mm_HEI    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 25;    indirectHitRange = 0.75;
[color=#0000ff]B_25mm_APDS    hit = 124;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;[/color]
B_30mm_AP    hit = 79;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_30mmA10_AP    hit = 210;    indirectHit = 36;    indirectHitRange = 3;
B_30mm_HE    hit = 55;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 1;
B_30mm_AA    hit = 101;    indirectHit = 35;    indirectHitRange = 0.5;  

to me it looks lie HE and APDS was confused. The problem with Bushmaster having no manual range input in the vehicle.cfg LAV-25 havign no at all and M2/M3 M6 is limited to 1000m which is way inside the maximum effective range of 3000m....at least 2000m for zeroing range input would be more appropriate and remove the need to give both ammunition different trajectories.

I think you hit the nail here.

[.kju 3240]

Please create a ticket in the CIT or CCP. See also:

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Weapons_settings

http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Damage

[On_Sabbatical 11]

@Beagle

You know that any tweak would require a small documentation to make it fair for other HE and AP rounds !

[Beagle 684]

@Beagle

You know that any tweak would require a small documentation to make it fair for other HE and AP rounds !

It is fair as you can see, the russian 30mm does not use DU, only GAU8A and M248 do so, hence the much higher hit value.

The Bushmaster woudl still be noticable inferior to A-10 GAU8A but both use similar projectiles and the russian 30mm autocannon still has a much higher ROF...it is right now easy enough to kill MBTs with it...at 600rpm much to easy anyway to cheesy Hitpoint system. a 18mnominal higher caliber does not necesarry mean higher penetration...the german MK20 20mm autocannon for example has a penetration of 44mm RHA at 1000 meters with tungsten APDS while the russian 2A42 only provides 25 mm RHA penetration at 1000m...its simply the weaker cannon with lower velocity and lighter projectile but higher sunstainable ROF.

Edited November 13, 2012 by Beagle

[[aps]gnat 28]

;2249012']Looking for input and sources for these two:

# Several choppers and planes are missing flares

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?142291-Adding-flares-to-quot-UH1Y-quot

BUT, the p3d models need to have the normal launch and direction memory points. Some obviously don't. Alternate memory points can be used, like the above thread.

[.kju 3240]

Can you guys please test the version available under temporary:

https://dev-heaven.net/projects/arma-2-ccp/files

You must run ONLY OA (no CO) and NO ACR (not lite nor full) and NO other community addons (BAF and PMC dont matter)

If you get on screen errors, or stuff in the rpt, please post.

There are four test missions available you can run from the editor.

Those create dynamically all available infantry, vehicles, objects, weapons and magazines.

Only these changes should be active in this version:

https://dev-heaven.net/versions/1381

The sooner you confirm it working fine, the quicker it should become available in beta patches. :)

---

Unfortunately the changes in the coming beta patches will be rather limited to ensure full MP compatibility and avoid issues.

To make sure the full changes to be available in 1.63 cause no issue, please test with the "Test Versions".

[Beagle 684]

I ran all missions and exept for the weapons test it said "done". Are we supposed to test all weapons in the crate?

Btw. the models switched so fast that for most no textures and only low LOD were loaded.

[.kju 3240]

Sorry for the limited explanation. In the weapons test mission its enough to look into the crate via the gear action.

The test missions are only to see if any on screen or rpt messages are created. It takes only a moment to run through all four.

[danil-ch 165]

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/63475 bombs fix not working (is it included ?).

[.kju 3240]

The Mi24 P fix also needs changes only available in the full version (different weapon order).

Added the related tickets. Might be true even for all Mi24 variants.

[Muecke 114]

Hi, for me all is showing ok.

[galzohar 31]

Would fixing the metis autolock be feasible to include in this?

https://dev-heaven.net/issues/2651

[.kju 3240]

Already part of: https://dev-heaven.net/issues/29024

[.kju 3240]

Also available via SIX updater now:

http://play.withsix.com/mods/393-ccp

Direct link for SU users:

sixupdater://mod=ac1947ae-31ac-11e2-9ed2-001517bd964c

Edited November 20, 2012 by .kju [PvPscene]

[Guess Who 10]

I had some time over the weekend to test and tweak with the A2CCP test release and the hit values of the M242 Bushmaster. The ammo used for the Bradleys and the LAV25 is the one marked in red in the following list originally by kju. The HE ammo is not the B_25mm_HE marked in blue; so values are not reversed and the HEI-T ammo seems ok. Nonetheless the APSD seems severely underpowered. Compared to the 30 mm AP rounds used in the BMP2 a value between between that (79) and 105 seems reasonable. I actually tested with 125 and 105 and 125 is overkill. For info: the FV510 40 mm CWTS uses hit values around 300. Any opinions?

B_127x108_APHE    hit = 24;    indirectHit = 5;    indirectHitRange = 0.1;
B_145x115_AP    hit = 31;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_20mm_AP    hit = 40;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 2;
B_20mm_AA    hit = 57;    indirectHit = 20;    indirectHitRange = 0.4;
B_23mm_AA    hit = 84;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_HE    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 15;    indirectHitRange = 0.3;
B_23mm_AP    hit = 108;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
B_23mm_APHE    hit = 45;    indirectHit = 10;    indirectHitRange = 0.2;
[b][color=#0000ff][i]B_25mm_HE    hit = 124;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 0.75;
[/i][/color][color=#ff0000]B_25mm_HEI    hit = 42;    indirectHit = 25;    indirectHitRange = 0.75;
B_25mm_APDS    hit = 65;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;
[/color][/b][color=#00ff00][b]B_30mm_AP    hit = 79;    indirectHit = 0;    indirectHitRange = 0;[/b][/color]
B_30mmA10_AP    hit = 210;    indirectHit = 36;    indirectHitRange = 3;
[color=#00ff00][b]B_30mm_HE    hit = 55;    indirectHit = 30;    indirectHitRange = 1;[/b][/color]
B_30mm_AA    hit = 101;    indirectHit = 35;    indirectHitRange = 0.5;

---------- Post added at 11:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

@ kju regarding lock cursors/tab lock in veteran and above:

I had a couple of long missions with the current test release, and I don't see any change of behavior between regular and veteran (which I usually play with) in regards to main gun locking cursors or tab lock. What I did see is some weird behavior with tab lock actually working in veteran with yellow targets and sometimes a lock cursor when targets are assigned via direct assignment (right mouse button). This was with beta buils 99153 and test release #2. Behavior seems inconsistent though and only reproduceable by trying all over again (I know that does not help!). Can you please recheck how it is done and look for a possible glitch.

;2251363']

It terms of locking for non guided missiles:

• No change for cadet and regular.
  
• In veteran you can even activate AutoGuideAT now. Only Expert is always without.
  
• (FnF or even all) Guided missiles by air units are not affected.
  
• You can assign targets via 2-x targets menu.
  
• You can assign targets via command cursor (attack X).
  
• You can assign targets via RMB (reveal + lock target key action).
  
• You need to watch the main gun angle/gunner to align with the target.
  

Regarding the main gun tweak for IFVs there is something weird sometimes when you change ammo manually per command "3-HE ammo" the gunner doesn't change back to AP when engaging vehicles. Is that as designed or is this a glitch?

[.kju 3240]

Good job on the clarification of the ammo's damage. This clearly shows how easily one can jump to false conclusions and that proper research is necessary.

While comparing the damage to other ammo/weapons is a fair start, in the end as linked above (#57) the damage values are (ought to be) based on actual data (energy / weight, speed, etc) and not just rough estimates. Again checking ACE should be a good start as they did such research.

---

Verify you have AutoGuideAT disabled in Veteran and that you use the test versions (and not the temporary beta patch target version).

When TAB lock is disabled, so is RMB direct click lock in general. Also TAB only works on red (yellow) targets, which means engine on + hostile.

You can still assign targets via RMB to gunner/subordinates in all cases, and the command cursor is also unrelated to locking (despite "popular" believe).

You need to provide a repro if you still think there is a problem. Technically its just canLock = 0/1/2 setting.

As its used for Wargames, ACE and others since ages without your observed problems, it seems to be on your end.

Do you have other addons active? Did you try the test missions yet?

Regarding AI gunner not switching - it could be simply the AI thinking the AP ammo is also good enough (cost tweaking can go only so far),

or one corner case might be weapons AI use not allowed to fire themselves (like missiles).

So again the exact vehicle/weapon is needed. Better with a demo mission/repro steps.

Yes its time consuming, and at times annoying to provide such detail. As said before I am happy to see you test as much and provide this feedback.

Still its either you (the community) or me to spend the time testing - without a clear case one can easily waste hours on such..

Its a bit sad to see rather limited community participation. When 1.63 is out, it might be quite a while when the next chance is to include such fixes and changes.

[Guess Who 10]

Yeah, jumping to conclusions is a hobby of lots of people; I'm not free of it. Still it seems the M242 AP is to weak compared to the BMP's 30 mm ammo. I don't have ACE loaded right now (I normally don't run it) and access to the newest version is only through six updater which I don't run either. Maybe someone else can provide such insights.

Regarding the TAB lock:

• I never have AutoGuideAT enabled, and I was running test release #2 and beta #98153 in veteran. Using the M2A3 Bradley as commander. TAB lock does not work (most of the time) with the M242 selected but RMB does always work for me if the target is already known/revealed. Is this the designed behavior? I'm not sure if I understand that correctly. Assigning by action menu always works.
  
• If I understood your earlier post correctly, the behavior of the TAB lock (for tanks/IFVs) should not be effected in regular and cadet mode? Because I can't confirm this, as it just doesn't work that way. It's just the same as in veteran. And just for clarification: I'm strictly talking tanks/IFVs in commanders position with AI crews.
  

And of course I'm a bit disappointed too that there is not much of community activity regarding this project. As I see it, it is some unique possibility to get around a lot of those little annoyances that get overlooked regularily by the devs, which is totally understandable in such a late stage of developing.

[On_Sabbatical 11]

Yeah, jumping to conclusions is a hobby of lots of people; I'm not free of it. Still it seems the M242 AP is to weak compared to the BMP's 30 mm ammo. I don't have ACE loaded right now (I normally don't run it) and access to the newest version is only through six updater which I don't run either. Maybe someone else can provide such insights.

Regarding the TAB lock:

• I never have AutoGuideAT enabled, and I was running test release #2 and beta #98153 in veteran. Using the M2A3 Bradley as commander. TAB lock does not work (most of the time) with the M242 selected but RMB does always work for me if the target is already known/revealed. Is this the designed behavior? I'm not sure if I understand that correctly. Assigning by action menu always works.
  
• If I understood your earlier post correctly, the behavior of the TAB lock (for tanks/IFVs) should not be effected in regular and cadet mode? Because I can't confirm this, as it just doesn't work that way. It's just the same as in veteran. And just for clarification: I'm strictly talking tanks/IFVs in commanders position with AI crews.
  

And of course I'm a bit disappointed too that there is not much of community activity regarding this project. As I see it, it is some unique possibility to get around a lot of those little annoyances that get overlooked regularily by the devs, which is totally understandable in such a late stage of developing.

90% of this community play non military missions on ArmA 2 ... so few know about these kind of things and have never paid attention or don't care at all ... and this is mostly due to the lack of PvP ... when you keep killing AI for the whole day you don't feel the need to fix "TAb lock" exploit.

This said,what Kju did till now regarding "TABLOCK" issue is great,people (when autoguideAT off) should not be able to lock on things they don't see,when you right click on a target ,you confirm that you see it ... this is not very skilled,but the least that can be done ... instead of TAB +click process which really doesn't fit in a "game" that pretends being a milsim.

Besides,we only need few experienced guys to get this project up.

Edited November 21, 2012 by On_Sabbatical

[kotov12345 10]

Myke;2247708']None of the AGM-114 variants is "manually guided" so a definate no to this.

Seriously ? :) So everything just working automatically :)

How about this video ?

Even on this brain washing video show clearly show that you need to see target to hit and point with cross hair.

Good thread but I think you got enough tickets to fix.Fix them first. :)

Edited November 21, 2012 by kotov12345

[On_Sabbatical 11]

AGM 114L is the only FnF hellfire out there all rest are manually guided !