Controls Scheme & User Interface Feedback

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

The ideal solution is to have all the interface elements exposed to the modder. In that way, a sort of Darwinism will eventually float the best solutions up to the top :)

My equally quality reply: Darwinism via inconsistent/incoherent interfaces floats ArmA, though not in the direction of the surface.

I think consensus has been reached on the number row, though DMarkwick spoils the party with appearing to disagree, when in reality he doesn't, he wants that along with a rose on-screen GUI. :(

[dmarkwick 261]

My equally quality reply: Darwinism via inconsistent/incoherent interfaces floats ArmA, though not in the direction of the surface.

I really don't understand what you could possibly dislike about the notion, do you suggest that people will willfully use GUIs that actively get in the way of their gameplay, or do you think that people might use GUIs that enhance their own particular gamestyle?

I think consensus has been reached on the number row, though DMarkwick spoils the party with appearing to disagree, when in reality he doesn't, he wants that along with a rose on-screen GUI. :(

I think you have a habit of trying to summarise in rather petulant ways, I don't think my suggestions are that outrageous. The current system stays, with new modern GUI alternatives. Everyone gets happy.

Well, nearly everyone ;)

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I really don't understand what you could possibly dislike about the notion, do you suggest that people will willfully use GUIs that actively get in the way of their gameplay, or do you think that people might use GUIs that enhance their own particular gamestyle?

I'm suggesting that, pardon moi Francais, shit interface out the box doesn't do the game any justice, as it doesn't do anything for it in terms longevity of the multiplayer.

BASIC GAMEPLAY needs sorting, where do modders come in?! If a person plays ArmA and likes it, but quits due to crap controls and then tells his friends then that's a lot of lost sales.

I think you have a habit of trying to summarise in rather petulant ways, I don't think my suggestions are that outrageous. The current system stays, with new modern GUI alternatives. Everyone gets happy.

Well, nearly everyone ;)

What current system? Scroll lists + F? Good bye sanity. Cycle-jerk (Pun intended)

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm suggesting that, pardon moi Francais, shit interface out the box doesn't do the game any justice, as it doesn't do anything for it in terms longevity of the multiplayer.

BASIC GAMEPLAY needs sorting, where do modders come in?! If a person plays ArmA and likes it, but quits due to crap controls and then tells his friends then that's a lot of lost sales.

Perhaps you might like to remind yourself of the context of that particular answer I gave, which was in response to Leon86. Applying someone else's answer to your own conversation leads directly to confusion.

What current system? Scroll lists + F? Good bye sanity. Cycle-jerk (Pun intended)

*sigh*

[rye1 21]

I'd like to see some of these suggestions in Arma 2 to test them... Hmm...

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I'd like to see some of these suggestions in Arma 2 to test them... Hmm...

ArmA 3 Alpha would be the best testing platform: great infantry ragdolls, smoking-hot, fluid reload and stance animations... Crap scroll lists to operate it all - priceless.

[froggyluv 2130]

I'd like to see some of these suggestions in Arma 2 to test them... Hmm...

Someone was floating around with a comma-rose in Mod Dev. for a while but I don't think it was ever released. I remember him saying that for some reason the AI responded quicker with it.

On another note -I hope there is a 'Fire on my Lead' command incoming. Many times when setting up an ambush I want the most reliable shot (me) to take out the biggest threat and my team to open fire on their respective targets simultaneously -hard to hit that Tilde/Open Fire in the middle of engagement. Tho I suppose VAC could do it -headphones aren't always an option in my household :p

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't care and am impartial to whatever solutions you guys come up with, but do solve the following:

"Skipping the grenade launcher by accident and then you'd have to go through it again -> Grenades -> Smoke grenades -> Satchels -> Semi/single -> Burst/full -> M203/GP-25."

F = next weapon.

Shift F = previous weapon?

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

F = next weapon.

Shift F = previous weapon?

So, the most sophisticated military simulator wouldn't simulate tactical vests and still have console-like one-dimensional controls? Nice try, though, Carl. :)

I just remembered something, holy hell - apart from having weapons/gadget on dedicated 0-9 number row keys, you could also assign all Scroll Action List in-vehicle (inter-)actions to it,

Cars, Tanks, APCs, Vehicles in general

• Key 1 - Driver's seat
• 2 - Gunner's seat
• 3 - Commander's seat
• 4 - Back seat
• 5 - Get out (ONLY when the vehicle is stationary - feature already present in ArmA)
• 6 - Manual fire
• 7 - ?
• 8 - ?
• 9 - Eject

Transport helicopters, Attack Helicopters, Rotary Aircraft in general

• Key 1 - Pilot's seat
• 2 - Co-Pilot's seat (Has the co-pilot seat been confirmed in ArmA III?)
• 3 - Gunner's seat (Transports Helos ONLY)
• 4 - Back seat
• 5 - Get out (ONLY when the aircraft is stationary and on the ground - feature already present in ArmA)
• 6 - Manual fire
• 7 - ?
• 8 - ?
• 9 - Eject

Jets, Airplanes, Fixed-wing Aircraft in general

• Key 1 - Pilot's seat
• 2 - Flaps (Cycle through Extend, Extend, retract)
• 3 - Landing gear (Cycle through Raise Gear / Lower Gear)
• 4 - To back seat (Cargo planes)
• 5 - Get out (ONLY when the aircraft is stationary and on the ground - feature already present in ArmA)
• 6 - ?
• 7 - ?
• 8 - ?
• 9 - Eject

!IMPORTANT! - Add 1 to 3 seconds transition (black screen?) delay to ALL of the above in-vehicle Actions to factor in immersion and realism, it also prevents insta-hoping in multiplayer (which BTW is currently possible with the scroll list)

At this rate we will exhaust our list of Actions from the scroll menu and it will have to delete itself in shame.

You may start singing High Praise to Pliskin right about... now.

Thoughts?

Edited August 28, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[HKFlash 9]

Very nice idea Pliskin. My two cents.

[-FHA-Dynamo 0]

meh, how about this?

you walk up to a vehicle and an interact icon shows up on your screen. when you press and hold your interact key, or select interact in the radial menu(press & hold middle mouse), icons pop up and show you available slots(occupied slots are grayed out). use the scroll wheel to cycle through the slots, and release the interact(use) key or release the middle mouse button when you have made your selection.

i can see there being a problem using the number keys to get into vehicles. if the vehicle already has someone inside, you might have to press numbers until you get one thats available. with visual icons displayed on the vehicle, just select the green icon. this means that you dont have to take your hand away from the WASD keys and can make quick and accurate selection of an action. no more "get in as driver" ..only to get in as rear passenger instead.

Edited August 28, 2012 by [FHA]Dynamo

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Anything would be better than the scroll list, but if we're going for 1-9 number row weaponry/equipment selection for infantry, wasting the same row by not using it for in-vehicle interaction would be a shame. My proposals have minimum UI work for the Dev team, in fact the weapon mappings alone could be done in two evenings. :icon_mrgreen:

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

P.S. I don't think ArmA is that kind of game where Graphical UI should be prevalent - it detracts from immersion in the long run, and I don't remember myself having an on-eye Graphical interface when I exit my car / get on a bike, but I did mention a radial wheel Action menu as Problem Number 2 on the first page of this thread - it is up to Devs to decide on the course of their strategy to implement it, if anything.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[4 IN 1 0]

You know, there is a reason why people stop replying to you.

[Praelium 0]

Anything would be better than the scroll list, but if we're going for 1-9 number row weaponry/equipment selection for infantry, wasting the same row by not using it for in-vehicle interaction would be a shame. My proposals have minimum UI work for the Dev team, in fact the weapon mappings alone could be done in two evenings. :icon_mrgreen:

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:55 ----------

P.S. I don't think ArmA is that kind of game where Graphical UI should be prevalent - it detracts from immersion in the long run, and I don't remember myself having an on-eye Graphical interface when I exit my car / get on a bike, but I did mention a radial wheel Action menu as Problem Number 2 on the first page of this thread - it is up to Devs to decide on the course of their strategy to implement it, if anything.

Right, I agree that consistency is important. With so many keys, it's necessary for the controls to feel intuitive. And with that, if vehicle actions are assigned to the number row then they should be as similar as possible across vehicle types. For example, "5" should always be "Get out" and "6" should always be "Manual fire".

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

You know, there is a reason why people stop replying to you.

Lack of arguments to backup whatever personal fantasies they fancy is the prime cause. You haven't contributed at all to this thread.

---------- Post added at 01:41 ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 ----------

Right, I agree that consistency is important. With so many keys, it's necessary for the controls to feel intuitive. And with that, if vehicle actions are assigned to the number row then they should be as similar as possible across vehicle types. For example, "5" should always be "Get out" and "6" should always be "Manual fire".

Definitely, "Back seat", "Manual fire", "Get out", "Eject", "Driver's/Pilot's seat" is universal across most vehicles, so it should become second nature to WASD.

Placing "Eject" so far back at number 9 is warranted due to unwanted accidents, which might happen, but I bet even if Eject has its own dedicated key, that number wouldn't be higher than rate of scroll list-related cock ups. :)

[rye1 21]

F = next weapon.

Shift F = previous weapon?

Easy implementation, fixes some problems. I'd say this at very minimum.

I don't care for shait about what keys do what, I'll customize it or get used to it. For instance I always have ` as my transition key for pure ease and speed in a fight. As long as it's more useable in game than the scrolling and clicking, the misclicks causing misfires, the small annoyances that makes it a poor system in general.

The VBS2 system is nothing to boast about either, it's awful for getting into vehicles, you can spend a good 5 seconds just to get into the door you're right next to. I'd definitely prefer a pointer (as mentioned here: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?138854-Arma-3-Action-Menu&p=2209398&viewfull=1#post2209398) so you can point and click what you want to do, i.e. vault a small fence, climb a ladder, get in the drivers seat. That could then make it so you had to go around to the drivers seat to get in, right? That would be interesting.

The annoyances of clicking 1, 2, 3 and the menu pops up for controlling AI... I wish that would disappear and go to one command button or try to use less numerical keys. When you click on it you're locked on it until you get out of it, to which you can then begin to engage say if in contact. It's annoying.

Anyways, there is a lot of productive discussion here in terms of non-subjective talk (Thanks for that bullshit 4 in 1) so keep it going. I believe the more solutions, the more ideas for future mod developments, wouldn't mind if you gave one a go Iroquois!

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Easy implementation, fixes some problems. I'd say this at very minimum.

Easy implementation would equal lazy in this case. F + Shift/F is technically the same thing - a one-dimensional cycle train with items that should not be there: M203/GP-25, Satchels, Frag grenades.

The sole reason we have the F cycle key and the Action scroll list is due to AI command 0-9 interface, I'd say further why it is so, but BIS had been a small studio with perhaps not a lot of Dev time/manpower to spend on developing proper iconography, instead a simple, easy, scroll list had been adopted that has been here ever since.

I don't care for shait about what keys do what, I'll customize it or get used to it. For instance I always have ` as my transition key for pure ease and speed in a fight. As long as it's more useable in game than the scrolling and clicking, the misclicks causing misfires, the small annoyances that makes it a poor system in general.

Number row layout is fully customizable, once there's an option for dedicated key-item, key-equipment, key-(in-vehicle)-action, then there's an option on the Developers' part to include customization/maps in the Controls.

The annoyances of clicking 1, 2, 3 and the menu pops up for controlling AI... I wish that would disappear and go to one command button or try to use less numerical keys. When you click on it you're locked on it until you get out of it, to which you can then begin to engage say if in contact. It's annoying.

Something needs to be done about AI command interface, because it jacks up the gameplay for the rest of us. Weapons/equipment functionality needs to be restored as top priority, and then go from there.

As defined on page 1, I see it as: 1) Bring some type of automatic toggle for AI command menu to enable weapons/equipment switching on the 0-9 number row; 2) Unload the Action scroll menu of weaponry and equipment; 3) Remove everything from the F key, bar the firing modes; 4) Rework AI command interface: remove commands, reposition them, consolidate further etc.

This scroll system is a joke, I've seen and heard grown men stand around while under fire when they had been issued an order, turns out most of the time they were cycling, scrolling or otherwise navigating the interface to carry it out!

[pathetic_berserker 4]

I'll agree weapon select might be improved if it was bind able to the number keys. But I'm reasonably happy with the current AI menu I know many of the key number combos in the heat of battle and I like the detail in them particularly when I feel like micro managing in quieter moments. Switching the number keys to the command menu after AI activation is the best option.

I think much of rest should remain basically as is (even the f.n ‘F†key) and pretty much everything else in the discussion is sounding a bit convoluted. Except maybe for this

The only real viable solution to the interface is that it must augment, not replace, the current system.

I think maybe more focus needs to be on why we access the menus sometimes but that may be diverting the topic abit.

As for that grey area between what has been touched on in this thread and focused on in the thread ‘Arma 3 Action Menu’ I’ll simply reiterate.

In short, unless it remains linked to my scroll wheel as the current operation is, its just something to further complicate matters. Controlling the menu with the mouse pointer or keyboard removes my ability to make directional changes while surfing my menu so is simply not an option. So it realy boils down to more of a graphical interface rather than operational one.

To this end it would be ideal if BIS provided a framework so that menus can be customized by modders. Imagine if you would BIS provide a mod able 3D rose (not so typical) for the menu. Which could be configured to be viewed edge on, giving the effect of the current scroll system. Side on, for those that like their view obscured by a big flower, or my favourite idea a half or 3/4 rose in perspective, that would enlarge the text or symbol about to be selected and positioned to one side of screen so that there could be space to expand menus if they are sensitive to categories.

But as I get to the end of post I think "so what if you fumbled and selected a throw grenade instead of your underslung GL and killed half your team mates coz it didn't have the range (guilty),.....have a cup of concrete, wars a bitch" :p

[dmarkwick 261]

P.S. I don't think ArmA is that kind of game where Graphical UI should be prevalent - it detracts from immersion in the long run, and I don't remember myself having an on-eye Graphical interface when I exit my car / get on a bike,

This is not a great argument, in fact it's quite useless. In my daily life I don't remember having to do any RL action with a keyboard, mouse, nor do I wear a cardboard box over my head with a hole cut into the front, etc etc you get the idea. We need onscreen info because it represents an appropriate analog to RL information. We need stance indicator, injury indicator etc because ingame I don't have proprioception and I don't believe it's appropriate to have to look at my leg textures to see if I hurt somewhere, or to see if if I'm crouching.

Onscreen GUI does NOT mean it has to be central, massive and obscuring of the view. It just needs to be contextual, usable, non-intrusive to other gameplay concerns and dismissable. As such it's a pure design issue not a fundamental flaw.

but I did mention a radial wheel Action menu as Problem Number 2 on the first page of this thread - it is up to Devs to decide on the course of their strategy to implement it, if anything.

Of course. But if the whole control interface is open to modders then some great solutions will emerge also. I know it's not out-of-the-box, but I doubt the next iteration of ArmA will either lose the scroll-wheel, or implement a whole new interface. There might be changes & augmentations, but no great shake-up. You may choose to fantasise about how great your ideas would be if implemented by BIS, but I doubt it will happen, so we have to remain pragmatic. This means user-moddable IMO.

Edited August 29, 2012 by DMarkwick

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

This is not a great argument, in fact it's quite useless. In my daily life I don't remember having to do any RL action with a keyboard, mouse, nor do I wear a cardboard box over my head with a hole cut into the front, etc etc you get the idea. We need onscreen info because it represents an appropriate analog to RL information. We need stance indicator, injury indicator etc because ingame I don't have proprioception and I don't believe it's appropriate to have to look at my leg textures to see if I hurt somewhere, or to see if if I'm crouching.

So you haven't detailed your Graphical UI rose wheel weapon selection yet. :) Would you be so kind to do it? But be warned: even Counter-Strike has radial-rose weapon/equipment buy menu only at each round start, when the game is paused and hasn't started yet - using that in combat is unwieldy.

Stance indicator... Health bar... now this is below the belt for me - there's this game, called Battlefield 3 - I'm not sure whether it has those particular features, but from the screenshots I can tell it is overloaded on Graphical UIs. :icon_mrgreen:

Onscreen GUI does NOT mean it has to be central, massive and obscuring of the view. It just needs to be contextual, usable, non-intrusive to other gameplay concerns and dismissable. As such it's a pure design issue not a fundamental flaw.

Could you please detail it piece by piece, as I have done. :)

Of course. But if the whole control interface is open to modders then some great solutions will emerge also. I know it's not out-of-the-box, but I doubt the next iteration of ArmA will either lose the scroll-wheel, or implement a whole new interface. There might be changes & augmentations, but no great shake-up. You may choose to fantasise about how great your ideas would be if implemented by BIS, but I doubt it will happen, so we have to remain pragmatic. This means user-moddable IMO.

Has the UI been ever user moddable? I want to see this game get a proper UI with ease of use, logical, fluid control layouts, so that people who try ArmA don't leave in droves due to awkwardness of the interface - that's my selfish dream.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin

[dmarkwick 261]

So you haven't detailed your Graphical UI rose wheel weapon selection yet. :) Would you be so kind to do it? But be warned: even Counter-Strike has radial-rose weapon/equipment buy menu only at each round start, when the game is paused and hasn't started yet - using that in combat is unwieldy.

OK seeing as you're being particularly forgetful, I might remind you that I agree the 1-0 keys can be used for weapon selection where there is no unit selected. Clear on that? So there is a method for selecting weapons via keystroke, in combat, no need to break out of your immersion. I expect that to be the last time I need to remind you. The GUI can be used for all parts of user actions & commands, if you wish, at the cost of having to find cover in combat situations. I don't think this is outside of realism, if I were to choose to select a launcher I might seek cover first IRL. But anyway, the choice of immediate weapon use is there, tap for inter-weapon selection (grenade types etc). In a GUI, you might just go straight to that inter-weapon choice.

Stance indicator... Health bar... now this is below the belt for me - there's this game, called Battlefield 3 - I'm not sure whether it has those particular features, but from the screenshots I can tell it is overloaded on Graphical UIs. :icon_mrgreen:

You know - as I typed that I just knew you would come back with a "go play [insert console game here]" response. It's no great surprise to me that a person concerned with "realism" cannot fathom a the notion of appropriate analog. Your solution to finding out some part of you is injured would be?

Could you please detail it piece by piece, as I have done. :)

So you need me to literally draw you a picture. No thanks.

Has the UI been ever user moddable? I want to see this game get a proper UI with ease of use, logical, fluid control layouts, so that people who try ArmA don't leave in droves due to awkwardness of the interface - that's my selfish dream.

Insert pragmatism.

Edited August 29, 2012 by DMarkwick

[4 IN 1 0]

Lack of arguments to backup whatever personal fantasies they fancy is the prime cause. You haven't contributed at all to this thread.

I simply do not have to time to keep argue with you all day, there is planes sitting on the ramp waiting to be check and fix.

But here is the point that I comes up with in my spare time: You can never keep adding layers and layers and layers of controls onto a single set of keyboard bindings, NEVER! It introduce human error, nor it gives any intuitive control of any sort, at worse it actually block access to control that is needed, take the current context sensitive menu for example, yes may gives you fast control on some basic level squad control, but at the same time it block access to complex command as you have to manipulating more different keys to get rid of context sensitive menu and get into complex command, not what anyone can call "intuitive control" in anyway. Another thing is about key binding placement, based upon human body mechanics, I don't know how you operate your keyboard, but I can take a wild guess that most of the time 80% are operating their movement keys(WSAD , Q and E for leaning in this case, but not limited to) using index, middle and ring finger, IF you actually put weapon selection on 1-5, you are actually moving your finger away from the most important keys to operate something that can be done with your other finger that is "free": your thumb and pinky, and those are in fact the best to operate anything other then movements in terms of freedom of movement and numbers of keys that are accessing.

While on the other hand a menu that is well designed(meaning NOT the scroll lists that you KEEP PUTTING INTO OTHERS MOUTH) can get away with this by the use of a lots of ways, such as a good visual representation on the things you can do/about to do, and a controls scheme that enable fast control to this asset, as long as you do not mask up the most important parts of the screen, your "work space", which is about the upper 2/3 of the center part of the screen where you do most of your enemy searching, targeting and focusing, which also means You can actually spare the lower 1/3 part of the screen for menus and stuff.

So what type of things should be put on the keyboard and what should be put on menu you may ask; well, I will simply base what we already have in since OFP days: rifle/pistol transition button, this key is the base of all the argument about weapon selection: you don't really need to have 2 keys (1 and 2 in your 1-5 or - whatever number keys you want)to select rather you want rifle or pistol. With that said the point now focus on what key scheme should be add, and what should stay in improved menu(if there is any).

Here is my through: generally, I think add a grenade selection key, where all type of grenades, be it frag, stun, smoke of different colour and rifle grenades, should select through holding this key to bring up visual menu and select the highlighted type once release, or cycle in between while tapping, this key should also acts as mode select key where once pressed you are about to throw/launch a grenade by pressing LMB, in order to go back to rifle/pistol mode(animation of switching grenades/reloading rifle grenades launcher should be play as well for immersion sake), press fire mode selection button to switch back to rifle/pistol. Launcher class have 2 choose: one is to intergate into grenade selection button(not very recommended), another is to stay within the assumed improved menu systems, place under high explosive device along side with satchel charges, AP/AT mines and stuff like that, the reason for this arrangement is that using such device require careful planning or safety consideration(again animation should be play while selecting this type of weapon for immersion sake).

This setup, require you only to add 1 to 2 new key scheme, accessible using thumb(or pinky if you like to use keys left side of your hand), enable you to have all 3 other finger to stay on primary movement keys, and free up all the number keys for whatever purpose, even gamepad friendly, is about as sensible as what can it get if I think of many other suggestion that comes out in this part of the forum.

Edited August 29, 2012 by 4 IN 1

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

OK seeing as you're being particularly forgetful, I might remind you that I agree the 1-0 keys can be used for weapon selection where there is no unit selected. Clear on that? So there is a method for selecting weapons via keystroke, in combat, no need to break out of your immersion. I expect that to be the last time I need to remind you. The GUI can be used for all parts of user actions & commands, if you wish, at the cost of having to find cover in combat situations. I don't think this is outside of realism, if I were to choose to select a launcher I might seek cover first IRL. But anyway, the choice of immediate weapon use is there, tap for inter-weapon selection (grenade types etc). In a GUI, you might just go straight to that inter-weapon choice.

Great! Perhaps you could take a look at number row in-vehicle interaction maps, which I had presented a few posts back to alleviate the scroll Action list problem - we can even do away with it, since the number of Actions would rapidly exhaust itself, what would be left: open/close door, use ladder? There's no reason to duplicate it on GUI with selection of the comfortable passenger seat in a Bradley.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------

But here is the point that I comes up with in my spare time: You can never keep adding layers and layers and layers of controls onto a single set of keyboard bindings, NEVER! It introduce human error, nor it gives any intuitive control of any sort, at worse it actually block access to control that is needed

That's the problem of AI command menu, 100% of players use their weaponry, equipment and otherwise have to survive. You start with a single character, with a rifle and equipment - start work from there, you do NOT start the game with 10 AI units in your backpack. The AI command menu can go to hell before basic gameplay is fixed, but we're generous enough to provide an automatic toggle via Unit selection.

take the current context sensitive menu for example, yes may gives you fast control on some basic level squad control, but at the same time it block access to complex command as you have to manipulating more different keys to get rid of context sensitive menu and get into complex command, not what anyone can call "intuitive control" in anyway. Another thing is about key binding placement, based upon human body mechanics, I don't know how you operate your keyboard, but I can take a wild guess that most of the time 80% are operating their movement keys(WSAD , Q and E for leaning in this case, but not limited to) using index, middle and ring finger, IF you actually put weapon selection on 1-5, you are actually moving your finger away from the most important keys to operate something that can be done with your other finger that is "free": your thumb and pinky, and those are in fact the best to operate anything other then movements in terms of freedom of movement and numbers of keys that are accessing.

You haven't played any of the Classics, have you... WASD + 1 to 9 number row keys: you use your middle finger to select equipment from 1 to 3, index finger for 4-7. Millisecond action, you're still in full control of three of the WASD keys and you're able to utilise the mouse movement fully.

While on the other hand a menu that is well designed(meaning NOT the scroll lists that you KEEP PUTTING INTO OTHERS MOUTH) can get away with this by the use of a lots of ways, such as a good visual representation on the things you can do/about to do, and a controls scheme that enable fast control to this asset, as long as you do not mask up the most important parts of the screen, your "work space", which is about the upper 2/3 of the center part of the screen where you do most of your enemy searching, targeting and focusing, which also means You can actually spare the lower 1/3 part of the screen for menus and stuff.

A menu for weapons selection in combat is a redundant thing and is no better than the scroll list for equipment. ArmA is very twichy first person game, bullets fly at 900 m/s or more, and they even kill in a single hit! Do you want to take the chances? Never.

So what type of things should be put on the keyboard and what should be put on menu you may ask; well, I will simply base what we already have in since OFP days: rifle/pistol transition button, this key is the base of all the argument about weapon selection: you don't really need to have 2 keys (1 and 2 in your 1-5 or - whatever number keys you want)to select rather you want rifle or pistol. With that said the point now focus on what key scheme should be add, and what should stay in improved menu(if there is any).

Here is my through: generally, I think add a grenade selection key, where all type of grenades, be it frag, stun, smoke of different colour and rifle grenades, should select through holding this key to bring up visual menu and select the highlighted type once release, or cycle in between while tapping, this key should also acts as mode select key where once pressed you are about to throw/launch a grenade by pressing LMB, in order to go back to rifle/pistol mode(animation of switching grenades/reloading rifle grenades launcher should be play as well for immersion sake), press fire mode selection button to switch back to rifle/pistol. Launcher class have 2 choose: one is to intergate into grenade selection button(not very recommended), another is to stay within the assumed improved menu systems, place under high explosive device along side with satchel charges, AP/AT mines and stuff like that, the reason for this arrangement is that using such device require careful planning or safety consideration(again animation should be play while selecting this type of weapon for immersion sake).

This setup, require you only to add 1 to 2 new key scheme, accessible using thumb(or pinky if you like to use keys left side of your hand), enable you to have all 3 other finger to stay on primary movement keys, and free up all the number keys for whatever purpose, even gamepad friendly, is about as sensible as what can it get if I think of many other suggestion that comes out in this part of the forum.

Great, great 3 dedicated keys again, but do provide the exact mapping, which you would use, because we don't have any free keys left and AI command is taking up the prime real estate.

Your pinky will be used for the CTRL stance modifier 99% of the time.

---------- Post added at 14:50 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------

Your solution to finding out some part of you is injured would be?

It is already present in the game and works f-l-a-w-l-e-s-s-l-y: if you can't run, your legs are gone; if your aim is shaky after sitting there for 10 minutes observing the enemy and you hear a bullet crack, a splash of red on the screen and your aim starts shaking, your arms are gone.

What could be done is to amplify these visual effects (See ACE 2), but this has nothing to do with a GUI. Health bar is out the question.

So you need me to literally draw you a picture. No thanks.

Yeah, why not? Three to four screenshots detailing the action of each menu: AI command, Action scroll list, weapon selection. It's a GUI after all. :)

Insert pragmatism.

Which means? That BIS is happy with the same 2k people who have been playing their game for a decade and that nothing is going to change?

I don't quite get the irrationality here.

[dmarkwick 261]

f-l-a-w-l-e-s-s-l-y

I don't think that word means what you think it means :) it's subjective. I'd like an onscreen info of stuff I should know via proprioception, like what stance I'm in etc. I don't think it's outside "realism".

Which means? That BIS is happy with the same 2k people who have been playing their game for a decade and that nothing is going to change?

I don't quite get the irrationality here.

If you expect irrationality you'll see it in comments you haven't understood :) I mean that pragmatically, don't expect BIS to have implemented your ideas. As such, the community will be your main hope to see something like you describe.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I don't think that word means what you think it means :) it's subjective. I'd like an onscreen info of stuff I should know via proprioception, like what stance I'm in etc. I don't think it's outside "realism".

I've never been in a situation, where I was not able to tell the state of my injuries, or the stance I'm in. Something is amiss.

If you expect irrationality you'll see it in comments you haven't understood :) I mean that pragmatically, don't expect BIS to have implemented your ideas. As such, the community will be your main hope to see something like you describe.

Like I said, I'm in the selfish business of dreaming the dream of this game thriving, and if you need to mod a game to make it playable, then that's already a nightmare. The number row map ideas are not subjective and I've yet to see an alternative detailed design, which would make playing this game a joy, control-wise.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Iroquois Pliskin