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Will ARMA3 feature realistic tank armor?


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#1 yarxie

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 07:59 PM

Hey!

My question is, will tank combat be improved by making the armor/penetration etc etc more realistic? (See Battleground Europe, Faces of War, Men of War for reference)
I've been partly annoyed by the lack this in previous games. It would make tank combat much more exciting and fun. But would also help getting tank sim people over to Arma 3.

*fingers crossed*

#2 -Coulum-

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:25 PM

I'm doubting their will be a truly realistic penetration system in a3. My bet is bi is going to be doing a more complex version of what they have now and add more hit zones on vehicles and different effects when those zones are hit. I could be wrong but if they were going to be introducing new armour penetration you think they would have mentioned it by now.
I'm still hoping too though. plus it would be nice if vehicle damage didn't automatically result in a big explosion. tanks like the m1 abrams have many safety considerations built in to increase the survivability of the crew, even when the ammo store and what not is hit. but in arma, if your tank gets disabled you are most likely dead as well.
same thing applies to heli crashes.

#3 Tonci87

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 09:40 PM

An improved penetration system would be welcome. The current hitpoint based system is not a very good solution. Men of war really nails it.
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Teach the AI how to drive. Teach AI Tank drivers to turn their front towards the enemy. Give us supression effects for AI . Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don´t protect the whole torso. More Civilian assets. Females. Weapon resting. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have.

#4 -EVO- Dan

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 10:00 PM

This has been discussed before and had some good videos and solutions, maybe it would best to lock this thread and continue on that old one?

Here:

http://forums.bistud...damage-modeling
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#5 maturin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:46 AM

Even if they phone this one in, I hope they give us vehicles with proper hitboxes so modders can create worthwhile systems.
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#6 Max Power

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:49 AM

proper hitboxes


What did you have in mind? The current system has two kinds of 'hitboxes' that works in concert with each other. Is it the way the hitpointsLOD works that you don't like?
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#7 maturin

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:54 AM

What did you have in mind? The current system has two kinds of 'hitboxes' that works in concert with each other. Is it the way the hitpointsLOD works that you don't like?

Well, the ACE system uses BIS models to define what part of the vehicle has been hit, and uses that to determine armor thickness and component damage. But it's frequently incorrect, with hits to the tracks counting as direct hits to the whole vehicle, shots through the crew compartment not killing anyone, etc. I don't understand it entirely.

But then there's always stuff like the Hind, where the rotor hitboxes are tangled up and multiply each other, with the result that a single round shuts down the engine despite the Mi-24's high hitpoint and armor ratings.
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#8 msy

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:42 AM

I wish airplane can have its complex armor status like helicopters.

#9 James2464

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:08 AM

I wish airplane can have its complex armor status like helicopters.


Isn't that confirmed?

#10 Tonci87

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 09:27 AM

Could a Mod please merge this thread with this here?
http://forums.bistud...damage-modeling

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8OGoIQXz3w&feature=related
The tank kills in this video show how awesome a realistic system can be.

Let me explain how its done in MoW

If a shell is able to penetrate armour depends on multiple things.
Caliber of the Gun
Distance to target
Angle of hit
Shell type

Every tank in MoW has multiple hit zones with their own respective thickness.
If a shell is able to punch through it then something might happen. For example the turret could be disabled, or a crewmember could be killed. The shell might even be able to punch through the whole tank if the shoot is powerfull enough.
If the shell does not penetrate the armour, then it will most likely ricochet and maybe hit something else.

If BIS could pull of a system that is as beleivanle as this... ah well, a man can dream :P

Edited by Tonci87, 01 April 2012 - 10:11 AM.

Posted Image Master of testing for a better Arma and well, for science.
Teach the AI how to drive. Teach AI Tank drivers to turn their front towards the enemy. Give us supression effects for AI . Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don´t protect the whole torso. More Civilian assets. Females. Weapon resting. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have.

#11 spinear

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:45 PM

Modern tank kills other tank 2km away and if you hit it bad guys just die.
There is no history and not enough data for what will happen new generation tanks kicking each other's asses.

In WW2, many tactics and crew ability for kill German tanks.
But now we know SABOT can penetrate 1 meter steel or 2 meter concrete.
This guy can every tanks in the world to junk but we don't know that.

There will be enough how to tanks die fascinating way just visually.
If BIS plan for make 'Take On Tank'? Maybe possible.....

Sorry for my crappy English. There is no offence if is there, it's not my purpose.
It was too hard to make my thought. Please make a correction when you see something wrong.

Edited by spinear, 03 April 2012 - 03:51 PM.


#12 danny96

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:51 PM

Well yeah you are pretty correct. Armors of modern tanks are secret informations. But BIS could make fictional armor thickness. I want to see real penetrations like in Men Of War. But we don't have any information until BI developer will say anything.

#13 -Coulum-

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 07:40 PM

It is true we don't exactly know how a modern to futuristic tank on tank battle might play out because it has never been done. But vehicle armor has been tested many times against RPGs ieds and large caliber rounds many times and arma doesn't seem to portray these kind of events accurately. In arma 2 an rpg to any apc basically means death to the vehicle and all those inside which is rarely what actually happens. And although most modern tank specifics are classified there are general details bi can expand upon in a logical way to create plausible tank battles. One game I really enjoy because of its tank combat and details is combat mission shock force. Tank damage seems pretty realistic and no two shots cause the same effects. Just like in reality.

Edited by -Coulum-, 03 April 2012 - 07:44 PM.


#14 mr.g-c

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:39 PM


This is the way to go.... ;-)
Marek Spanel: [...] Every single element is well taught so that it fits together. So this is a significant change, because with ArmA 1 it was just random, really.
We made some units because we had to. There wasn't much passion from our side with the first ArmA, to be honest. This time it's different. (Videogamer.com Interview:)

Please BIS: Arma2 must become a TRUE MASTERPIECE - Not a middle-heavy catastrophe!

#15 NodUnit

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:17 AM


This is the way to go.... ;-)


Yeah that would be nice to see, the big arguement before was that there were so many tanks that the system would take too long for it's first time, but in comparison to A2 we've only seen the merkava as the MBT used by both sides and one APC, it would be amazing if they focused on making the few vehicles as advanced in function as possible in terms of damage systems.

Edited by NodUnit, 04 April 2012 - 09:21 AM.

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#16 Max Power

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:02 AM

Well, the ACE system uses BIS models to define what part of the vehicle has been hit, and uses that to determine armor thickness and component damage. But it's frequently incorrect, with hits to the tracks counting as direct hits to the whole vehicle, shots through the crew compartment not killing anyone, etc. I don't understand it entirely.

But then there's always stuff like the Hind, where the rotor hitboxes are tangled up and multiply each other, with the result that a single round shuts down the engine despite the Mi-24's high hitpoint and armor ratings.


Hmmm... I don't think that what you are describing with the hind is the case.
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#17 maturin

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 05:50 PM

Hmmm... I don't think that what you are describing with the hind is the case.


https://dev-heaven.net/issues/26427
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#18 Max Power

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 07:53 AM

I see that. I'm not saying that the mi24 doesn't have overly vulnerable engines. What I am saying, though, is that your description of the 'tangled up hit boxes' does not seem to be the case.
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#19 Tonci87

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:25 PM

Vote it up if you want to see this improved!
https://dev-heaven.n...6#change-131393
Posted Image Master of testing for a better Arma and well, for science.
Teach the AI how to drive. Teach AI Tank drivers to turn their front towards the enemy. Give us supression effects for AI . Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don´t protect the whole torso. More Civilian assets. Females. Weapon resting. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have.

#20 wipman

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

Hi, i don't think that the ArmA3 gonna be realistic with the tanks armor or any other vehicle. Let's C ya