Iran to make major nuclear announcement within days, Ahmadinejad says

[PELHAM 10]

So why no one tries to put some sanctions against Israel to force it to sign NPT? Don't you think that no obligations = uncontrollable selling of weapons and technologies to those who may pay for them? And don't you think that refusing to sign NPT equals breaking some its parts?

Why? Maybe they have no nuclear weapons indeed and don't try to make them?;) So they don't need to withdraw from the agreement.

Please read up on the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It does not only concern nuclear weapons, it also includes access for the IAEA to inspect and verify, to comment on the NPT you have to read and understand it. There are no sanctions against Israel because there are no legal grounds for any. In 2008 the US backed a UN resolution urging Israel to sign the NPT and open their facilities for inspection, it also called for a 2012 conference on the issue of a non-nuclear middle east.

Edited February 16, 2012 by PELHAM

[froggyluv 2130]

So why is it that Iran stays in the NPT and continues to act the part of international nuclear law breaker, why don't they just withdraw from the agreement? Does it serve internal politics to be seen to be standing up to the rest of the world and the 'Great Satan'? Does the NPT and a veneer of legitimacy give Iran leverage and moral authority in opposition to it's rivals in the region, including Israel? If it were to withdraw would it then become more of a pariah state like North Korea? Would China and Russia then have to accept the use of tougher measures and sanctions?

This is what I can't wrap my head around. What advantage is there to being a member of NPT when all it seems to do is criminalize your activity should your nation choose to further nuclear technologies. On the other side of that coin is Israel, whom seem to flourish in terms of aid, military and political support -all the while refusing to sign.... Seems to me NOT signing has plenty of advantages and little to no penalties if Israel is to be used as a model.

Three states—India, Israel, and Pakistan—have never signed the treaty. India and Pakistan are confirmed nuclear powers, and Israel has a long-standing policy of deliberate ambiguity (see List of countries with nuclear weapons). These countries argue that the NPT creates a club of "nuclear haves" and a larger group of "nuclear have-nots" by restricting the legal possession of nuclear weapons to those states that tested them before 1967, but the treaty never explains on what ethical grounds such a distinction is valid

-Wikipedia

But Israel seems to feel morally confident enough in going after those that do sign the treaty...

On September 18, 2009 the General Conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency called on Israel to open its nuclear facilities to IAEA inspection and adhere to the non-proliferation treaty as part of a resolution on "Israeli nuclear capabilities," which passed by a narrow margin of 49-45 with 16 abstentions. The chief Israeli delegate stated that "Israel will not co-operate in any matter with this resolution

. -Wikipedia

^' So again, by merely not signing the NPT, when requested to open their nuclear facility a simple "No we wont" is all that is necessary to escape sanctions or worse. As long as I've followed politics here in the States I can't recall one politician of either party addressing Israel's nuclear arsenal in a public manner -why the free pass?

[gammadust 12]

' [/sUP]So again, by merely not signing the NPT, when requested to open their nuclear facility a simple "No we wont" is all that is necessary to escape sanctions or worse. As long as I've followed politics here in the States I can't recall one politician of either party addressing Israel's nuclear arsenal in a public manner - why the free pass?

^^ double standards?

[PELHAM 10]

As long as I've followed politics here in the States I can't recall one politician of either party addressing Israel's nuclear arsenal in a public manner -why the free pass?

It's unusal but US Politicians have called on Israel to join the NPT. See my post above about the 2008 UN Resolution. Generally they ignore it,not sure why.

The problem with Israel signing the NPT as an NNWS (no prospect of it being allowed as an NWS) means if it has nuclear weapons it would have to immediately begin to disarm under Article III. For Israel to sign there would have to be some trust that the other players in the middle east would also be honouring the NPT. The difficulty is that Syria and Iran have a long history of covert nuclear development, refusing IAEA inspection and breaking their NPT obligations, so where do you begin to solve this? It's the usual circular Middle Eastern farce.

Edited February 16, 2012 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

Your information is out of date and inaccurate. Just because the US Air Force lands a plane somewhere from time to time does not make it a US Military Base. The same is true of ships entering a port to refuel or replenish supplies / rotate personnel.

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up, the balance is back in the force ... :rolleyes: If the shoe was on a different foot it would be a shit storm.

Isreal is a great example actualy getting back to the recent postings.

Edited February 16, 2012 by mrcash2009

[PELHAM 10]

Isreal is a great example actualy getting back to the recent postings.

Well Israel is a good example of the strange workings of the NPT but a bad example of what is actually happening here. Iran is all too glad to have this reduced to the question of Israel as it obscures the real agenda. The arguments between Israel and Iran are mostly phoney. There are wider issues:

- The internal conflict in Islam between Sunni and Shia.

- Conflict between the Royalist Islamic Kingdoms and Iran.

- Iranian and American conflict.

- The control of the Persian Gulf and the export of oil from the region.

- Continuing Cold War rivalry between the superpowers.

Iran obtaining nuclear weapons works to the advantage of itself in it's own back yard and certain other nations. Look at the way the UN Security Council votes and you will identify who.

[Pyronick 21]

I wouldn't be surprised if iran just wants to be a regional player. Just like Israel and Turkey at the moment.

[froggyluv 2130]

Well Israel is a good example of the strange workings of the NPT but a bad example of what is actually happening here. Iran is all too glad to have this reduced to the question of Israel as it obscures the real agenda. The arguments between Israel and Iran are mostly phoney. There are wider issues:

True but for starters -there really is no' question of Israel', at least here in the States as the issue is rarely brought up publicly. Second it does give a certain credibility to Iran, it's Allies and Arabs that America as enforcers are playing two different standards between our "special friends" and Iran. Personally I don't want to see Iran with these weapons but I do believe the lack of parity hurts our credibility.

- The internal conflict in Islam between Sunni and Shia.

- Conflict between the Royalist Islamic Kingdoms and Iran.

- Iranian and American conflict.

- The control of the Persian Gulf and the export of oil from the region.

- Continuing Cold War rivalry between the superpowers.

Excellent encapsulation of the complexity of the situation and it's easy to see why solutions are evasive as the problem or "game" is complex. I guess its all too easy to blame Israel as the catalyst for many problems over there (as well as Jihadist Militants) but I wonder how much of this is really a covert war by proxy with the old Cold War players. Perhaps if there was no Israel we'd be in a similar situation between Royal Saudi and Iran - with US and Russia still jockeying for behind the scene dominance of the region.

[ProfTournesol 956]

True but for starters -there really is no' question of Israel', at least here in the States as the issue is rarely brought up publicly. Second it does give a certain credibility to Iran, it's Allies and Arabs that America as enforcers are playing two different standards between our "special friends" and Iran. Personally I don't want to see Iran with these weapons but I do believe the lack of parity hurts our credibility.

Another point is that Israël thinks that having nuclear weapons is a condition of its survival, which is obviously not the case of Iran. Israël is surrounded by enemies, some of them being alternatively friend or foe, such as Egypt.

On the other hand, Iran behaves exactly like North Korea or any other dictatorship : they need to be threatened by the whole world to justify the lack of freedom of its own people. Several arab countries are facing popular revolts, and the Iranian regime fears that its (quite well educated) youth comes back to life.

[spooky lynx 73]

I shouldn't say Iran is surrounded by friendly countries. And freedom doesn't matter here. Just resources and nothing else.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I shouldn't say Iran is surrounded by friendly countries. And freedom doesn't matter here. Just resources and nothing else.

Say that to Iranian refugees.

[spooky lynx 73]

There are always some people who don't like their country and leave it. The same refugees may be from Russia, East-European countries, Latin American countries. If there's not enough freedom for them personally, it doesn't matter that there's not enough freedom in the country in general.

[ProfTournesol 956]

There are always some people who don't like their country and leave it. The same refugees may be from Russia, East-European countries, Latin American countries. If there's not enough freedom for them personally, it doesn't matter that there's not enough freedom in the country in general.

Lol. I'm sure the frontier guards on the "Berlin wall" were thinking the same thing.

[PELHAM 10]

Anyone wanting detail of the evidence of Iran's Nuclear Weapons Program should read this:

IAEA Board of Governers

Distribution Restricted

GOV/2011/65 Date: 8 November 2011 For Official use only

Implementation of the NPT Safeguards Agreement and relevant provisions of Security Council resolutions in the Islamic Republic of Iran

http://www.isisnucleariran.org/assets/pdf/IAEA_Iran_8Nov2011.pdf

http://www.isisnucleariran.org/

It details all the evidence gathered so far on the Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program and is very convincing. It covers many aspects including procurement, uranium enrichment, explosives development, organisation and management, staff training and missile payload designs. Iran has refused to give explanations for much of it and refused access to IAEA inspectors.

Iran has made a formal complaint to the IAEA about the publishing of this secret report on the above website. So I guess the truth hurts lol.

[NoRailgunner 0]

From ISIS

Iran has produced limited quantities of low enriched uranium (LEU), the type suitable for being fabricated into fuel for a reactor. Iran has not produced any weapons usable or high enriched uranium (HEU).

Sabber rattling, rumours and evidences (no proof/no facts) raise the concern of military R&D of Iran. Isn't this in the news/in tabloids every year? War-mongering on all sides...

[mrcash2009 0]

From ISIS

Sabber rattling, rumours and evidences (no proof/no facts) raise the concern of military R&D of Iran. Isn't this in the news/in tabloids every year? War-mongering on all sides...

Its all a matter of your source, and that's it, which one is more deemed legit than another. In actual fact it should be, check the source, its affiliations, investors, past history, beleifs and so on and then compare. Although some will run with the "this is proof as its official" and some will look elsewhere and be a tin foil hat type. Either way, Iran is on the list and was for years, now its time to crusade again, and none of it will be good outcome and all of it will assist in adding to the all round shitstorm we are moving into globally.

Nothing they will do will be looked upon as goood, and anything they do or say will be de/reconstructed into some sort of threat or violation and so on.

[PELHAM 10]

From ISIS

Sabber rattling, rumours and evidences (no proof/no facts) raise the concern of military R&D of Iran. Isn't this in the news/in tabloids every year? War-mongering on all sides...

It's a report from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) an organisation with a similar status to the UN? Some may not agree with the ISIS website itself but the report is of the highest integrity. What adds weight to the validity of the report is the official complaint following it's appearance in public.

Also breaking the terms of the NPT agreement is not limited to enriching Uranium to weapons grade. It forbids any kind of research or development of nuclear weapons. That includes explosives, neutron sources, plans, missile technology etc.

For example, there is proof Iran has conducted explosive implosion experiments using HEU substitutes such as lead and tungsten. Not a hint of a radioactive substance, but it still breaks international law regarding the NPT.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency

http://www.isisnucleariran.org/assets/pdf/IAEA_Iran_8Nov2011.pdf

Edited February 17, 2012 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/iran-alqaida-planning-attack/2012/02/16/id/429684?s=al&promo_code=E319-1

Unsure of Newsmax rep, but hey in this day and age i'm not surprised this will be floated through the scare machine soon enough.

[PELHAM 10]

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/iran-alqaida-planning-attack/2012/02/16/id/429684?s=al&promo_code=E319-1

Unsure of Newsmax rep, but hey in this day and age i'm not surprised this will be floated through the scare machine soon enough.

They got that from Sky, I find it difficult to believe. Al-Qaida has done nothing but slaughter Iraqi Shia for the past 7 years. I thought that would never be forgiven but who knows? Also why do they need Al-Qaida? Iran carried out 1 bombing, 1 attempted bombing and had a 'Bangkok up' last week in 3 different capital cities so seem perfectly self sufficient.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9085774/Iran-strengthening-ties-with-al-Qaeda-say-intelligence-chiefs.html

Edited February 18, 2012 by PELHAM

[mrcash2009 0]

Also why do they need Al-Qaida? Iran carried out 1 bombing, 1 attempted bombing and had a 'Bangkok up' last week in 3 different capital cities so seem perfectly self sufficient.

Well "the database" affiliation needs to be dragged out at any opportune moment to reminds everyone of scare's past and ratchet up the justification list to kick things off, that link is used all the time for the last 11 years or so. Its like a Tom Clancey novel.

[walker 0]

Hi all

In reply to PELHAM on this part of his post:

...Iran carried out 1 bombing, 1 attempted bombing and had a 'Bangkok up' last week in 3 different capital cities...

In terms of attack form the first two seem targeted, the third looks to be the randomised actions of a disturbed individual and not related.

All could just as easily be false flag operations possibly carried out by MEC the anti Iranian terrorist group supported and trained by the Mossad; either at the Mossad's instigation or simply because they decided to do it themselves. Other anti Iranian elements also might be the source. Again I separate the random bomb thrower as I think he is just a disturbed individual, modus operandi is totaly different from the other two attacks.

Dealing only with the two attacks on embassy personnel; theoretically, they could be tit for tat, price tag attacks for the killing of Iranian scientists, but I would have expected such attacks to be more precisely targeted on Israel's nuclear science community and for the attacks to be carried out within Israel. That said the Iranians may feel attacks on scientists are not morally acceptable and that any such attacks need to be felt within the political community of Israel.

As I said this is all just speculation, we do not know who carried out the bombings.

Kind regards walker

[Dwarden 1124]

@walker You act like all the attacks on 'scientists' (some of them were regular military staff) were carrier by Israel

while there are 2 other countries in region who have even higher reasons to stall Iranian nuclear program than Israel ...

try guess which ones

[PELHAM 10]

Hi all

In reply to PELHAM on this part of his post:

In terms of attack form the first two seem targeted, the third looks to be the randomised actions of a disturbed individual and not related.

Kind regards walker

The incident in Bangkok was not 1 lone crazed individual, there is much evidence to support that? There were 4 Iranians who shared a house (the one that blew up).

Two Iranians are in custody in Bangkok. Saeid Moradi, 28, was injured in one blast and is being treated at Chulalongkorn Hospital, while Mohammad Khazaei, 42, was detained at Suvarnabhumi airport. The third suspect is Mr Sedaghatzadeh (he was arrested in Malaysia, trying to board a flight to Iran), while the fourth suspect is female, Leila Rohani, who has fled to Iran. The 3 males were seen leaving the house after the explosion by several witnesses. They also have pictures of the 3 males together in a Thai brothel.

If the guy throwing grenades was acting alone and the others are innocent, why did they flee immediately after the unintentional explosion at the house? Innocent people usually stay to collect their belongings etc. Also it's odd that they managed to get on flights at such short notice, don't you think? Ordinary people don't have such convenient air travel arrangements.

Bomb type, delivery and construction. In all 3 cases they used similar components including the same magnetic strip, were magnetic to be attached to cars and delivered by motorcycle, it is unconfirmed but all 3 were said to be built inside radio receivers.

If this is some Mossad trained group, it's doubtful that they would seek to flee to Iran. Their names would be in public circulation before the plane landed and they could hardly expect to waltz through the airport unchallenged. Lets see what Iran does about the 4th suspect who made a home run. Surely in the interests of justice they will extradite her to Thailand?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/280543/valentine-day-bombs-a-farce-with-deadly-implications

Edited February 19, 2012 by PELHAM

[ProfTournesol 956]

Lot's of Iranian military gesticulations and posturings last week-end.

[mrcash2009 0]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-22/former-nuclear-inspectors-advise-against-strike-on-iran-sites.html

De Ja Vu & groundhog day all wrapped into one .... dear oh dreary me.

Im waiting to see Hans blix and Dr David Kelly to turn up soon ....

Edited February 22, 2012 by mrcash2009