FHQ WIP Thread (contains lots of images)

[PuFu 4591]

Looks really nice and clean so far. Looking forward to the pics with the AO baked.

Does anybody have any hints on polygon reduction? Currently, I am using Blender's snap-to-object tool to re-model a lowres version of the model, but that takes almost more effort than modelling the highres. Unfortunately, the decimation tools I tried (Blender's Decimate modifier and MeshLab) don't yield very usable results - they're either too complex still, or the silouette is completely lost in the process, or there are other very obvious flaws. Snap-to-object and remodelling works, but takes a long time.

As usual, comments and hints highly appreciated.

Unfortunately i don't have that much of experience with blender and it's tools, but both "proptimize" (3ds max) and "reduce" (maya), have finer control options (in both max and maya you are able too keep the edges that define the shape (exterior edges, hard eges etc), while in maya you can paint the areas you want to reduce face-count). Both will most likely break the meshflow - triangulate the mesh (even with quadrify tools you won't be able to keep it from happening).

That said, those sort of tools are meant to work on on low-res models (reducing the polycount by x percent - small adjustments and/or making LODs - multires. If you are trying to achive a LP model from a HP one, then this is NOT the way to do it. Your options:

1. if you have create the HP from LP , you should have kept the LP (or used a modifier stack).

2. you can always use some sort of retopo-tools on top of the HP to create the LP.

3. if the meshflow is correct, removing a lot of edges shouldn't be much of a hassle. It always is one when the meshflow is fubard.

I would go for retopo (here's what i was able to find via a quick google search):

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-243/retopo/

http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.4/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Editing/Retopo

http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/blender/using-retopo-tool.php

EDIT:

My workflow concerning LP <-> HP: I usually start with the LP model (but not always), since i find it easier to get the shape right with less geometry.

There is a lot of fuss about which way one should do it. But it depends on a lot of things. Some stay the way to do it is HP -> LP, some that it is LP -> HP. Anyways:

LP->HP

Once i am done with the LP model, i save the file with a different name, and i drop a edit-poly on top(i use stack modifiers most of the times, because then i got ways to come back if i fuck it up. i even name those modifiers just so i can remember by steps back in case of fubar). From this point onwards i use supporting edges plus added geometry in relations with a turbosmooth or meshsmooth modifier (NURBS based sub-d).

Once i am done modelling, i check how well the LP resembles the HP. If the differences are small, i make the needed adjustments to the LP. If the differences are huge, i start the retopo process (which is fairly simple once you get used to the workflow). There are (at least for max) additional plugs and scripts that can make this process even faster. WRAPIT for instance (and pretty cheap -35£- for what it does)

HP->LP

This happens, most of the time, when i don't have an idea about what i want to do in the end, or when characters (or almost any other organic models) are concerned.

I do the HP as i please, then i use the a mix of manual reduction where possible with retopo tools.

Hope that helps and makes sense, although not pointing fingers at blender's tools per se ;)

Edited March 14, 2012 by PuFu

[Alwarren 2765]

Glad to see you still working on this mod Alwarren. The textures look really nice.

Thanks. I have found out that there is an extension for Blender that allows to layer textures during texture paint. That makes it easier to "erode" a texture because I can simply rub off a bit of the paint and have shiny metal appear beneath it. I think that helps the realistic feel.

---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Looks really nice and clean so far. Looking forward to the pics with the AO baked.

Thanks a lot :) I found a few places that need cleanup, but all in all, I am happy about how the model came out.

Unfortunately i don't have that much of experience with blender and it's tools, but both "proptimize" (3ds max) and "reduce" (maya), have finer control options (in both max and maya you are able too keep the edges that define the shape (exterior edges, hard eges etc), while in maya you can paint the areas you want to reduce face-count). Both will most likely break the meshflow - triangulate the mesh (even with quadrify tools you won't be able to keep it from happening).

Yes, I have also noticed that with the Decimate modifier in Blender. The result is triangulated (which isn't so bad), but the triangles tend to have no flow at all and tend to be long thin slivers. I did manage, however, to get the ACR down to around 9000 triangles with the decimate tool; I had to do a lot of tweaking to the output, and cut some of the larger slivers with the knife tool, but since I don't need to animate this, I guess it works. I'll have to see how they look in game.

It always breaks on the Picatinny rails, though. Those need a lot of manual work.

1. if you have create the HP from LP , you should have kept the LP (or used a modifier stack).

Yeah, I usually keep both for the baking. I could probably use a multi-resolution mesh for this as well, but that is something I have never used and have no idea how it works. These are my first bigger models, I only did some basic box modelling for Neverwinter Nights in the past, which was always low poly and no bump maps.

2. you can always use some sort of retopo-tools on top of the HP to create the LP.

That's how I made the RGP. It works reasonably well, although I tend to mess up the mesh flow at some of the places (like, the holes in the hand guard are a particular PITA). Blender 2.5 removed the Retopo tool but added vertex snapping, so retopologizing is relatively straightforward most of the time, but usually takes me longer than actually modelling the high res model (So far I always went from hires to lowres).

3. if the meshflow is correct, removing a lot of edges shouldn't be much of a hassle. It always is one when the meshflow is fubard.

I managed to do that on the EGLM. I was pretty careful with mesh flow on the EGLM and managed to get it good enough to just remove edge loops.

EDIT:

My workflow concerning LP <-> HP: I usually start with the LP model (but not always), since i find it easier to get the shape right with less geometry.

There is a lot of fuss about which way one should do it. But it depends on a lot of things. Some stay the way to do it is HP -> LP, some that it is LP -> HP. Anyways:

LP->HP

Once i am done with the LP model, i save the file with a different name, and i drop a edit-poly on top(i use stack modifiers most of the times, because then i got ways to come back if i fuck it up. i even name those modifiers just so i can remember by steps back in case of fubar). From this point onwards i use supporting edges plus added geometry in relations with a turbosmooth or meshsmooth modifier (NURBS based sub-d).

Once i am done modelling, i check how well the LP resembles the HP. If the differences are small, i make the needed adjustments to the LP. If the differences are huge, i start the retopo process (which is fairly simple once you get used to the workflow). There are (at least for max) additional plugs and scripts that can make this process even faster. WRAPIT for instance (and pretty cheap -35£- for what it does)

WRAPIT looks great, too bad 3DS is so expensive ;) Blender has a similar tool that works by drawing lines on the surface of the mesh, but it isn't as interactive as WRAPIT. Goring from LP to HP never really occurred to me, that is something I should really try, more so since the Multires modifier in Blender is explicitly meant for this.

HP->LP

This happens, most of the time, when i don't have an idea about what i want to do in the end, or when characters (or almost any other organic models) are concerned.

I do the HP as i please, then i use the a mix of manual reduction where possible with retopo tools.

I guess my best option is retopo for most of the model, and maybe decimate for some. Decimate worked surprisingly well on the ACR, and surprisingly bad on the Eotech.

Hope that helps and makes sense, although not pointing fingers at blender's tools per se ;)

I have high hopes for Blender 2.63 which should introduce the new BMesh modeller. Right now, Blender only does triangles or quads, so modifications on a mesh are difficult to undo without completely breaking mesh flow. It also makes some tools unavailable - there isn't a decent Bevel tool in Blender, but BMesh should finally get it.

Many thanks for the information, that has given me a lot of food for thought :)

[Alwarren 2765]

This is what happens when you forget to apply your transformations before exporting

(click for larger version)

Yeah, that's me in the magazine there :banghead:

Anyway, ACR low-poly version in game. ~7000 faces. There are still a few shading issues and the bumpmap is botched in places, I need to tweak that. And make a real texture of course, this is just the AO bake.

[islesfan186 83]

BFG...I like it lol

[scarecrow398 43]

You should defantlly in game as a easter egg :D

[swot 10]

are you going to make the magnifier animated? As in to magnify it you must move the magnifier in front of the Eotech, else you just look through the standard eotech as a sight.

That'd be mad.

[Alwarren 2765]

are you going to make the magnifier animated? As in to magnify it you must move the magnifier in front of the Eotech, else you just look through the standard eotech as a sight.

That'd be mad.

I don't think that is possible. Right now, the magnifier works like any other scope with backup sight. I don't think the model.cfg has any possibility to query the state of the backup sight as an animation source. I'd love to have it animated, but as I said, I don't think it is possible.

[swot 10]

fair enough... maybe you could do something like the AAW folding bipods, i think they had 2 models one with the bipod down and one up, and when you pressed a key it instantly swapped to the other model with the effect of unfolding the bipod, though it wouldn't be very fluid...

[Alwarren 2765]

fair enough... maybe you could do something like the AAW folding bipods, i think they had 2 models one with the bipod down and one up, and when you pressed a key it instantly swapped to the other model with the effect of unfolding the bipod, though it wouldn't be very fluid...

I think animating the effect would be possible even without two models (the required animation is a simple rotation around an axis). I just don't think there is anything I could base the animation on, except when asking for e.g. CBA with extended event handlers. I'd love to do this, but I really don't see a generic way to implement it.

[scarecrow398 43]

I think animating the effect would be possible even without two models (the required animation is a simple rotation around an axis). I just don't think there is anything I could base the animation on, except when asking for e.g. CBA with extended event handlers. I'd love to do this, but I really don't see a generic way to implement it.

Hmm, Apart from AAW the UKF weapons had the same style of snap between models, it wouldn't look bad but it wouldn't look great either, better than just switching to a full screen 4x like with ACEX weapons, i remember the PUKF landies having smooth animated sights, might be worth asking Messiah how he did it (though that was on vehicals.)

[da12thMonkey 1943]

i remember the PUKF landies having smooth animated sights, might be worth asking Messiah how he did it (though that was on vehicals.)

Like you guessed, that only works because it's on a vehicle. AFAIK you still can't apply a user defined 'animationsource' to weapon models.

[Alwarren 2765]

Here's some new in-game screenshots of the ACR, along with the new handgrip/flashlight combo and Eotech:

(click for bigger pictures)

Minor shadow issue at the rear at the buttstock, and I really need to re-model that Eotech. Also don't know whether I should keep the "scratches" on the magazine or not.

I don't think I'll make an iron sighted version this time... If someone would use an expensive modern rifle as this, I am sure they'd invest into a red dot or Eotech ;)

[sup3r6f0ur 2]

Quick couple of questions.

1. Are you doing the OA or the ArmA 2 style croshairs on the eotech. ( You know how the ones on the OA Scars and BAF L85s are much bigger)

2. What kind of optics are going to be on it? RCO Reflex sight, shortdot, sniper scope, TWS, ( I already know your doing eotech and Aimpoints)

3. Are you going to do any MSRs or other remington rilfes or are those scraped now?

Can't wait for these, they are looking good.

[Alwarren 2765]

Quick couple of questions.

1. Are you doing the OA or the ArmA 2 style croshairs on the eotech. ( You know how the ones on the OA Scars and BAF L85s are much bigger)

I always wanted to say this: Mine is bigger :D

Seriously though, I am going for the slightly bigger Eotech sight.

2. What kind of optics are going to be on it? RCO Reflex sight, shortdot, sniper scope, TWS, ( I already know your doing eotech and Aimpoints)

Eotech, Red dot, Eotech with magnifier scope, RCO and TWS. I might throw in a couple of other configs like a shortdot, Mk4 or a Specter sight. I scrapped the DMR version, the RSASS is better in that respect anyway. Might make an Aimpoint + scope as well, I saw they have one of those too.

I am still thinking of whether I should make the scopes like the default OA's, or like the look-through scopes that recently featured on this M4 pack (can't remember the name, sorry guys :o).

3. Are you going to do any MSRs or other remington rilfes or are those scraped now?

No, the MSR and the RSASS will be in as well, as will be the RGP. I might add the Remington breaching shotgun if I find a suitable hand anim for it (I have no idea how to do those myself). The MSR might be redone by Varanon, but the RSASS will stay as is.

Can't wait for these, they are looking good.

Thanks :)

[islesfan186 83]

Versions with PVS-14s would be sick! Even in ACE there is only 2 weapons with a PVS-14 on it (1 M4 and 1 HK416 or 417)

[SuicideCommando 333]

Yeah, the Eotech looks kinda messed up. Also, what version of the grip were you going for? It kinda looks like an Surefire M900 but that too looks alittle off. The rifle is sweet though. http://assassin.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/m900_copy.jpg\

Also what magnifier are you going for? It too looks odd. Here are some pics of the Aimpoint 3x. http://ultimak.com/AP3xMag.htm

Edited March 23, 2012 by SuicideCommando

[scarecrow398 43]

Nice, looks slightly off but still nice.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Scarecrow398

[islesfan186 83]

Yeah, the Eotech looks kinda messed up. Also, what version of the grip were you going for? It kinda looks like an Surefire M900 but that too looks alittle off. The rifle is sweet though. http://assassin.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/m900_copy.jpg\

Also what magnifier are you going for? It too looks odd. Here are some pics of the Aimpoint 3x. http://ultimak.com/AP3xMag.htm

Those aimpoint magnifiers are a pretty good idea. I'm surprised not even an M4 pack thats been release has those :-/

[scarecrow398 43]

Those aimpoint magnifiers are a pretty good idea. I'm surprised not even an M4 pack thats been release has those :-/

Theres ONE in ACEX, just a single M4A1 with 4X but its a fullscreen view.

[sabre 244]

...Also don't know whether I should keep the "scratches" on the magazine or not.

I would remove the ones you have on there at the moment, plastic wouldn't wear like that, add some dust/dirt to give it a more used look.

[Alwarren 2765]

Yeah, the Eotech looks kinda messed up. Also, what version of the grip were you going for? It kinda looks like an Surefire M900 but that too looks alittle off. The rifle is sweet though. http://assassin.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/m900_copy.jpg\

I'll review that front grip. I wasn't going for anything in particular, I more or less made that one up.

Also what magnifier are you going for? It too looks odd. Here are some pics of the Aimpoint 3x. http://ultimak.com/AP3xMag.htm

The magnifier I got from a picture of the XCR which had an Eotech with scope on it. No idea what model or make it was. If I find some reference pics from an official EOtech magnifier, I am going to remodel that. That Aimpoint scope also looks good :)

---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:34 ----------

I would remove the ones you have on there at the moment, plastic wouldn't wear like that, add some dust/dirt to give it a more used look.

Yeah, guess that's true. I used a reference picture of a pretty beaten-down ACR, but that was mostly the camo paint scratching off. My mags don't have camo, so there isn't any paint to scratch :)

(texturing isn't my strong point, more so since I do them all from within Blender).

[Alwarren 2765]

This is an image of the new EoTech holo sight (hires version). I like this much better than the last one.

(click for larger)

I guess I am getting better at this, this only took me around two hours :)

[SuicideCommando 333]

Looks good to me Alwarren.

[scarecrow398 43]

Much better, got around to texturing it yet?

[Alwarren 2765]

Much better, got around to texturing it yet?

Sort of. I have a color texture and bump map, but no SMDI map yet, so the black parts look a bit dull. I need to tweak the rvmat as well, specifically, it is using a rough metal detail map right now which it shouldn't. Also there is a bit of smearing on the inside of the upper casing, probably forgot to enable occlusion while painting the texture.

(click for larger)

Also, I started with a Rheinmetal LLM01. This is the high-res version so far:

(click for larger)

Not quite finished with it yet, I want to add some more details. The push buttons need a bulge in the center, and I need to make sure they appear inset instead of part of the model as they are right now.