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Take On Difficulty Settings!


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#1 RoyaltyinExile

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 05:56 PM

In the endless and weary road towards usability (surely the devil's work :P), we're going to be adding descriptions of difficulties beside the options.

We hope this will encourage people to think a little more about the difficulty they're on, and some of the - perhaps unforeseen - consequences of their choices!

Read more below; we hope they help people enjoy the game (even) more!

Spoiler


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RiE

Edited by RoyaltyinExile, 13 October 2011 - 07:35 AM.

Arma 3 is a combined arms military game with an infantry focus. Built upon appropriate, useful and engaging elements of simulation, it's an accessible platform for a variety of official and community playable/sandbox content, based on the principles of authenticity, diversity and opportunity.

Dans son oeil, ciel livide où germe l'ouragan,
La douceur qui fascine et le plaisir qui tue.

#2 WrathPhoenix

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 06:58 PM

I know i have said this once before in these forums but I would just like to state this again if I may.

I am a huge fan of what you guys do with your products. Both in ARMA and Take On Helicopters I really enjoy having the difficulty scale to the level you have it here. I have, at times, enjoyed just sitting back and enjoying ArmA 2 and the TOH Beta "As a game" and found it fun, entertaining, and still incredibly deep. With Take On specifically I am an ex chopper pilot in reality (Private License) and have cranked up the difficulty to a high setting and lo and behold I have found things pretty spot on.

This is a great thing you guys at BI are doing with your products. Just the right depth while still fun and playable. Keep it up. :)

#3 Rg

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 09:26 PM

Flying on expert mode where it's at once you get used to the basics. Constant input is then required from all controls. Then when you max the wind in the editor things start to get squirrely, but in a fun way of course :D

I think it would be a good idea to allow clients to turn off aids in the MP environment, so that using certain aids isn't forced on people who fly with minimal or none.

*EDIT*
I went ahead and created a CIT, since I think this will become an important issue when more people start playing MP.
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/25413

Edited by Rg, 12 October 2011 - 10:09 PM.

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#4 CarlGustaffa

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:22 AM

Yeah, there are two things I've been asking for regarding difficulties:
1) Let the player be able to select higher difficulty than the server suggest, maybe with a "Copy from server" button.
2) An "Ok" button on the difficulty screen, so we don't always have to "Edit", then "Ok", and finally "Back". "Edit", "Ok", and "Cancel" should all be there.
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Carl Gustaffa - left this game due becoming Steam Exclusive :(

#5 OMAC

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:49 AM

EXPERT

Flight Dynamics: Many simulation helpers are disabled and locked; you'll have to work to keep the bird in the air - great for getting the full experience of our new flight models!

Gameplay: Many guides are disabled by default; you'll have to study your tasks carefully and keep and eye on your gauges - Great for getting totally engaged with the tasks at hand!


Well done. However, when you refer to "the gauges," you may want to specify that you mean the instrument panel gauges, not the HUD gauges that are disabled by default on Expert.

The disabled HUD is one of the key differences with Trainee - you may want to emphasize that.

Oh, and there's a typo. It should be "... and keep an eye on your gauges..."

Edited by OMAC, 13 October 2011 - 01:53 AM.


#6 RoyaltyinExile

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 07:34 AM

Oh, and there's a typo.


Aha, yes.. just an, er... a TEST! To make sure you guys were.. uh.. paying attention!

:o

Best,
RiE
Arma 3 is a combined arms military game with an infantry focus. Built upon appropriate, useful and engaging elements of simulation, it's an accessible platform for a variety of official and community playable/sandbox content, based on the principles of authenticity, diversity and opportunity.

Dans son oeil, ciel livide où germe l'ouragan,
La douceur qui fascine et le plaisir qui tue.

#7 MadDogX

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 07:40 AM

Will you be adding "auto hover" to the difficulty settings so that it can be disabled? Unless I'm completely mistaken, there is currently no option for this.

Nice work on the descriptions, btw. :)

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#8 scarp

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:00 AM

so that it can be disabled?


Easy, just dont use it :) But I take it you want to force other players i.e multiplayer or missions to go full monty?

#9 MadDogX

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 08:14 AM

Easy, just dont use it :) But I take it you want to force other players i.e multiplayer or missions to go full monty?

I already don't use it, though the temptation is often tough to resist. ;)

And yes, the idea is that - for example - Expert mode could lock this option out, because it really is kind of a cheat.

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#10 scarp

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:26 AM

How come, you have autohover in RL altho, perhaps not in a MD500 :D

I see where you are getting at, I fly full monty myself (retired RLP). Not to start a argue of 'what is best', but I truly enjoy this game so far and I personally do not mind if people not so familiar with rotor flight 'get a hand' whenever they feel they need it....if not for anything but to immerse themselves in heli-op's.

Why?

I am quite confident that those with a genuine interest in helicopters will take on the challenge (heh) and in their own time progressivly stripp themselves of aides and finally fly full monty, while at the same time enjoying it to the fullest throughout the whole process from chicken to chickenhawk :D .

But that was just one opinion in a million, and I do support an option where you could disable or enable to your heart's content. Total freedom in terms of options...that's what I would vote for :)

#11 RoyaltyinExile

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:30 AM

Expert mode could lock this option out, because it really is kind of a cheat.


Well, that's not going to make release, but it's certainly something we'll evaluate for post-launch support.

More likely, we'd tie it to a difficulty option, set is as disabled for expert, but not lock it out, as Auto-Hover - to some degree- is there to compensate for things we simply can't simulate, like the inner ear balance, etc.


Best,
RiE
Arma 3 is a combined arms military game with an infantry focus. Built upon appropriate, useful and engaging elements of simulation, it's an accessible platform for a variety of official and community playable/sandbox content, based on the principles of authenticity, diversity and opportunity.

Dans son oeil, ciel livide où germe l'ouragan,
La douceur qui fascine et le plaisir qui tue.

#12 MadDogX

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:53 AM

More likely, we'd tie it to a difficulty option, set is as disabled for expert, but not lock it out

Sounds good to me. ;)

Auto-Hover - to some degree- is there to compensate for things we simply can't simulate, like the inner ear balance, etc.

I hadn't considered that.

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#13 OMAC

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:05 PM

I love auto-hover just as it is now. I think that it should be enabled by default on Expert. BIS could later add an option to disable it on Expert, but that is really unnecessary. As scarp wrote, don't use it if you don't like it!!!

I think the difficulty settings are perfectly balanced right now.


Just my two cents.

#14 WrathPhoenix

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 04:57 PM

I love auto-hover just as it is now. I think that it should be enabled by default on Expert. BIS could later add an option to disable it on Expert, but that is really unnecessary. As scarp wrote, don't use it if you don't like it!!!

I think the difficulty settings are perfectly balanced right now.


Just my two cents.


Having flown on all settings by now, i tend to agree.

#15 Turin Turambar

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 09:10 AM

Ughhh... no.

Difficulty should change the difficulty of the game. Not the usability of the interface or the realism settings.
Difficulty should change the mission difficulty, the realism modes should be separate of that.

#16 MadDogX

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 10:05 AM

Difficulty should change the difficulty of the game. Not the usability of the interface or the realism settings.

This makes no sense at all. In a game like TakOH, there aren't many ways to change the difficulty without affecting realism or interface, because those two aspects make up the bulk of the games difficulty in the first place. In other words, the main difficulty of the game is controlling the helicopter. The more realistic the flight model, the more difficult it becomes. "Helpers" like autohover and auto-trim are there to make controlling the helo easier - they affect the difficulty. In this respect, autohover is in the same category as auto-trim, hence my suggestion to disable it through a difficulty setting.

Btw. enabling and disabling waypoint markers is also interface related, for example. Are you suggesting this should no longer be a difficulty setting?

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#17 Turin Turambar

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 11:31 AM

I agree it's more complex to change the difficulty in these type of games. But not impossible. If this was a simple fps, the difficulty should change the hp or damage of the enemies, or their numbers. Here, you have to think what is the mission asking you.

Is a mission with a time limit? with a height limit? Is the mission asking you to follow a speedy car? The difficulty should change the missions parameters of failure. Change the time limit, change the height limit, change the car speed or maximum distance in the chase.

If i have problems in a mission, i want the possibility of lowering the mission difficulty, without changing the flight model, that's an intrinsic part of why i am playing it in first place.
Say, Falcon 4 had separate campaign difficulty and comprehensive realism settings.

#18 CarlGustaffa

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 12:07 PM

They could disable autohover on expert as long as you are above 1000 feet AGL or something. Who cares if someone engages it at that altitude to answer the phone or take a piss? :) But I agree it interferes too much at reducing sense of realism.

It's true we lack inner ear sensations, for obvious reasons, but I think the trick is to better use the visual cues we do get, even if more inconvenient than real life. The negatives of auto hover by far outweights the positives. Although not for ground level flight, when flying IFR you'll learn to completely shut off the signals from the inner ear, as they can be very faulty - and solely rely on what your instruments tell you instead. At least as an option to turn off.

@Turin: There is nobody objecting that missions can't be harder on harder difficulties (although I don't think it will be used as much as you suggest). We're just saying that some "helper aids" should be completely disabled on harder difficulties. You can probably set lowest difficulty but choose to toggle off all the helpers.
Regards
Carl Gustaffa - left this game due becoming Steam Exclusive :(

#19 zach22213

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 01:08 PM

I dont like the controls of the aircraft. Giving it is more challenging I just want to have fun. When playing on the easy difficulty setting it should be just as easy as flying in VBS2 or ARMA.

#20 Derbysieger

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 01:28 PM

No sorry, flying should offer some kind of challenge even on beginner. With a bit of practice it shouldn't be too difficult to fly on trainee or beginner, especially with auto-trim enabled and wind disabled. It's really not that hard to learn the basics and have some arcarde-style fun. I personally don't want to go back to the A2 FM.