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Can't fly in a straight line (auto trim off.).


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Archosaurusrev
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 14:31 #1

First of all, using a mouse and keyboard.





What is with this rolling to the right bullshit?
Have the devs ever been in a helicopter?

Now I know helos aren't stable but why do these roll so much?
Does it have something to do with the collective, which I can't adjust as I only have a mouse and keyboard?

Help would be needed. :(

Edit: I am also very aware the if you press the left "pedal" and set trim then it should counteract this.
Seeing as I have a keyboard, I press X and set trim, it rolls to the left!

Help please.

Edited by Archosaurusrev, 18 July 2011 - 14:39.

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TheCapulet
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 15:28 #2

Set the pedals mapping to your mouse so you can set the trip properly?

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Archosaurusrev
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 15:36 #3

I was thinking that too, didn't work. :(

Good suggestion nonetheless.
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Liquidpinky
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 16:00 #4

The tail rotor on helicopters create their own wash, this will affect them slightly although it is more pronounced on take off when the aircraft will drift side ways if not compensated for.
I have had lots of fun with this while trying to fly my RC heli indoors. XD

You really need to have some form of analogue control to try and get it balanced before setting the trim, you need a little cyclic and rudder to sort it out.

Edited by Liquidpinky, 18 July 2011 - 16:05.


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kylania
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 18:57 #5

You really need to have some form of analogue control to try and get it balanced before setting the trim, you need a little cyclic and rudder to sort it out.


Unless this game is shipping with a custom controller + pedals, they'd better make it keyboard flyable without pedals. :) As it stands now it's nearly impossible for many to control since the helicopter immediately begins uncontrollable and drastic rolling and tilting from the start.

Maybe if they made the X/C work the same as Q/Z so we could apply a little and keep it applied rather than having to constantly press X or W and always end up overcompensating in doing so.

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Archosaurusrev
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 19:36 #6

Unless this game is shipping with a custom controller + pedals, they'd better make it keyboard flyable without pedals. :) As it stands now it's nearly impossible for many to control since the helicopter immediately begins uncontrollable and drastic rolling and tilting from the start.

Maybe if they made the X/C work the same as Q/Z so we could apply a little and keep it applied rather than having to constantly press X or W and always end up overcompensating in doing so.


That would fix it.

You have a 0.000001% chance to set the trim well with a keyboard, that means it's about luck. :(


Doing what is suggested above would fix it. Irl when you set trim/change pressure to pedals it STAYS set.

Jesus fucking christ, I've seen videos of people flying in FSX with no pedals, only a mouse and keyboard.
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Posted 18 July 2011 - 21:37 #7

Unless this game is shipping with a custom controller + pedals, they'd better make it keyboard flyable without pedals. :) As it stands now it's nearly impossible for many to control since the helicopter immediately begins uncontrollable and drastic rolling and tilting from the start.

Maybe if they made the X/C work the same as Q/Z so we could apply a little and keep it applied rather than having to constantly press X or W and always end up overcompensating in doing so.


Isn't that why auto trim exists in the first place? You are asking to emulate a very nuanced analog control with on/off switches. I personally would rather them do exactly what they are attempting to -- give various difficulties to toggle on/off flight-aids rather than dumbing down the game so that it's flyable with a keyboard.

Edited by -Sn1PeR-, 18 July 2011 - 21:43.


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Posted 18 July 2011 - 23:40 #8

Sniper,
providing analog control over tailrotor axis X/C would only affect keyboard control systems, WILL NOT dumb the game down in any way shape or form, but rather make it more realistic when using that hardware.

Edited by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-, 19 July 2011 - 01:46.

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:26 #9

How are you suggesting they provide analog control with two buttons? They could add bands (ie. 10% step sizes, etc.), but that still would not be sufficient for perfect trim.

celery
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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:31 #10

How are you suggesting they provide analog control with two buttons? They could add bands (ie. 10% step sizes, etc.), but that still would not be sufficient for perfect trim.


What do you care, you're not going to fly with a keyboard anyway. :confused:

The rudder-throttle keyboard assimilation seems like a good idea, and I don't see how it will dumb down your joystick gameplay.

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:44 #11

What do you care, you're not going to fly with a keyboard anyway. :confused:

The rudder-throttle keyboard assimilation seems like a good idea, and I don't see how it will dumb down your joystick gameplay.


I was curious, but I get the point. I think I'm done here.

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 01:45 #12

How are you suggesting they provide analog control with two buttons? They could add bands (ie. 10% step sizes, etc.), but that still would not be sufficient for perfect trim.



the same way they did with keybinds of INCREASE THRUST and DECREASE THRUST. press and hold X (or C) while it cycles to its max 'value'.
there would have to be a way for the value to get back to neutral state...
sounds good, right? :rolleyes:

Edited by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy-, 19 July 2011 - 01:51.

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 15:40 #13

I have a 25 year old joystick somewhere in the loft with manual trim wheels. I think I might use that lol.

Why don't they introduce manual trim in the keyboard so if you press shift and W,A,S,D,Z or X it gives 1 measure of trim in the given direction? (I think someone has sort of mentioned this.)

Also lets face it - if it's a realistic flight sim it's reasonable to expect the player to use something more than a mouse and keyboard as standard. You would never be able to control a real helicopter using such basic input devices.

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 16:45 #14

Also lets face it - if it's a realistic flight sim it's reasonable to expect the player to use something more than a mouse and keyboard as standard. You would never be able to control a real helicopter using such basic input devices.

Your common sense is showing. :o

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 07:23 #15

Also lets face it - if it's a realistic flight sim it's reasonable to expect the player to use something more than a mouse and keyboard as standard.


We will look at improving this, but generally: this is one of the reasons we've included auto-trim. Not having as many analogue axes when using keyboard and mouse means this system can handle at least one for you :)
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Archosaurusrev
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Posted 20 July 2011 - 13:48 #16

I wasn't asking to make it as easy to fly with the good ol' combo of a mouse and keyboard, that isn't possible.

Flight sims should be better optimised for sticks.

But some kind of "increase thrust" and "decrease thrust" for keyboard turning would help us keyboard people who don't have a stick (Yet, hopefully :D.).
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Posted 20 July 2011 - 14:03 #17

I wasn't asking to make it as easy to fly with the good ol' combo of a mouse and keyboard, that isn't possible.



it's already as easy to fly with mouse and keyboard as it is with joystick, it just takes practice.

reference:
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Posted 20 July 2011 - 15:09 #18

-Ziggy-;1985736']it's already as easy to fly with mouse and keyboard as it is with joystick, it just takes practice.

reference:


Yeah, I can fly good with the mouse + keyboard but usually flightsim equipment allows you to more freely maneuver.

For people like me who are used to the keyboard control can get over that limit. My only problem is trim setting, everything else I do as competently.
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Liquidpinky
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Posted 20 July 2011 - 16:20 #19

They could maybe make it similar to what I have on my RC controller, the trim is a separate slider below and to the side of the stick.
This could be adjusted with plus and minus key assignments for them and maybe have a visible trim setting shown somewhere on the HUD for these.
I would find this usefull myself to set trim up before take off etc even though I use a flight stick.

Is it just set like it is in ToH, by a single toggle trim on/off, in a real helicopter?


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Posted 20 July 2011 - 19:24 #20

Isn't that why auto trim exists in the first place? You are asking to emulate a very nuanced analog control with on/off switches. I personally would rather them do exactly what they are attempting to -- give various difficulties to toggle on/off flight-aids rather than dumbing down the game so that it's flyable with a keyboard.


The problem is AutoTrim doesn't exist in Veteran mode and I don't want to play in Recruit mode. Regular has the option to turn it on, but Veteran doesn't. For something that's so completely critical to the essence of playability for the game it should be on or at least optional for all levels of difficulty, like 3rd Person View.

Flying with AT on with keyboard/mouse is challenging to get right but actually doable. Feels like a more difficult version of what we have now and that I like. Landing with the ground effect wind is a deadly affair for me so far! heh

With Autotrim off it's completely and utterly uncontrollable bad. A "makes me want to cancel my pre-order" bad. That's a very bad bad to be. :)