Has OFP/ARMA put you off the Army ?

[ryguy 10]

Plus, some of us have some better things to do with their lives...such as, graduate from a proper university, get your master and phd...you know, that sort of boring and lame stuff second class citizens do

This is total bullshit. Just because you choose one path in life doesn't mean the other one is worse.

Edited April 10, 2011 by ryguy

[void_false 1]

This is total bullshit. Just because you choice one path in life doesn't mean the other one is worse.

Don't choice - combine! :)

[Alwarren 2766]

You can compare the service to paying taxes. If you dont pay you benefit for youself. But you're damaging the state's economy.

That's a typical black-and-white view of things. Just because a doctor is an honorable and important job, it's still mandatory to have garbage haulers, cashiers, janitors, taxi drivers, and all the other jobs that make up a society.

Not everybody that joined an army is a militaristic jarhead; not everybody that didn't join is a coward. Everybody is free to chose their path.

It's sick to attach the worth of a citizen to whether they served in the army or not. And for the record, I have served, and would probably do it again, but that does not make me any better than those that haven't, or those that chose civil services (which you can take in Germany instead of army service).

Kudos to the men and women that defend our freedom all over the world. They deserve respect for what they do. As does the garbage hauler, the waitress, the doctor, the policemen, the firefighter, or just about anybody else. It's being part of society.

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

I enlisted shortly after the first Flashpoint came out, but it had no influence on my decision.

[Macadam Cow 1]

We always think we are the good guys and we're fighting the good cause. Fact is your ennemy is thinking exactly the same way. And what was a good cause 10 years ago can suddently become a bad cause and vice versa. Just look at the 2 latest war the western world has been engage in. 30 years ago Al Qaeda and Saddam were the good guys...they were usefull to us so they were our friends...till they became useless or not as usefull we wanted them to be, and then we've described them as the worst kind of human beings on earth. The army itself, the institution, is just a government tool. With a hammer you can smash someone's head or drive a nail and in both case you will find people to say you were right.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Macadam Cow

[igneous01 19]

not really, I enjoy playing it as a game, and applying some aspects of real fighting into a game. But it doesnt change my opinion on the army.

I thought about joining a few times, but once i realized that nationalism was an illusion, the reason to fight for your nation doesnt make sense anymore.

Id rather do something more creative with my life and shape it how i perceive it, then to fight for a nation i dont believe in, nor for other people, which i also dont care for.

[ArmAriffic 10]

Not really. In fact, it made me even more open to the prospect of enlisting, but I've since moved away from that in pursuit of other occupations.

[Second 0]

It's sick to attach the worth of a citizen to whether they served in the army or not. And for the record, I have served, and would probably do it again, but that does not make me any better than those that haven't, or those that chose civil services (which you can take in Germany instead of army service).

Look at map and look at Israel and you should see why Void_False might think what he thinks. Israel has strong military culture, it has long successful career in employing it's conscript armed forces against it's enemies which are in almost every direction and had acted in very hostile manner in last decades. Israel doesn't ultimately have much choice. It can be that Israel wouldn't even exist anymore without such attitude. So even when Void_Flase's opinion might not hold true in whole Israeli society, i'm pretty sure it has strong public support.

We have same tradition but it's getting watered down as threat levels are decreasing due Russian getting more and more stabile, but still had it strong in 90s. Every man who did civilian service was considered more or less a lesser man. Why? Because they didn't show enough dedication for their country and relatives to be prepared to defend it and them. Instead it looked like these people doing civilian service would let Soviets/Russian to take this nation without any fight.

So this can strictly be seen as small nation's one survival strategy in shoulder pocket of bigger, stronger (potentially) hostile nation. Because it creates norm into society that more men(and women in Israel) will go into armed service and i'd say that it also gives motivation to do it good. Forexample our conscript military service produces motivated, capable and eager soldiers (even on international scale), which by definition isn't what conscript service is good at achieving. Constantly men who have finished their conscript service does give good rating concerning their service time and how they feel about it, even when that time is usually very demanding, tiring and ofcourse they get only pitiful pocket money out from it (not enough to buy back of cigarettes per day).

Me. I first served and then i heard of OFP. It sounded like dream come true, with it's iron sights, vehicles, regular grunt gameplay (those days it was all about special forces like rainbow six, ghost recon, SAS) and so on.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Second

[CameronMcDonald 146]

I signed up in '05, and OFP had very little to do with it.

[Alwarren 2766]

Look at map and look at Israel and you should see why Void_False might think what he thinks.

I know why he thinks that way, and I can understand the point of view but understanding and agreeing are two different things.

[Tonci87 163]

Same here, I ttoally understand why Israel is so proud of its military, and why the military is that important to them. But they have to be carefull. It was the same stuff in Prussia you know?

[PuFu 4591]

Yeah but there's not much glory in pen-pushing..;)

Who said i am pen pushing. I am doing my 6th year (master degree) in architecture, and work, have work in the architecture and media industry for the last 3-4 years. There is little pen involved, more like pencil (in form of wacom that is) ;)

SO you are saying there is glory in invading a 3rd world country that is way bellow NATO forces members both in terms of technology and living conditions? And that in the name of democracy and freedom? Really? Which planet are you from?

Most of us simply don't feel it's our calling to be a soldier, but thank God there are people who do..

And what are they fighting for in the end? I mean since WW2, point me to a war that was about democracy and freedom please? Or any of the valors a developed country stands for nowadays? Which one should it be? Afghanistan? Iraq? Vietnam? Korea? Yugoslavia? really...

OMG spare me with that BS please. There's no "No servicemen here" writings on uni doors. In fact, gov-ment helps you with money after you discharge. I've been thou this argument for million times.

really? they do? maybe in your country, since the military and their US partners has such an important role to play. I am sure not in mine, or most of other EU countries.

Always you say the same like I have kids to rise, tree to plant, garden grass to cut, etc.

I already said i would have done my army time gladly if it was mandatory. It is not. Your view is very narrow my lad, and you can see this only through the diplomatic, political and military condition of Israel. Most European countries are not threatened by an outside force, or country for that matter. Not even US is threaten, they only keep that impression. But i guess you already know that but choose not to consider it.

My country is far from a military power. And i see no reason for the government to spend more money than it already does on this, since there is no foreseeable threat. Case of point,

First of all, come and see. Second, now you understand why our job market doesnt want people who didnt serve? Why the hell someone will hire you if you wont do the job because of your view?

I wouldn't apply for a job where my views would be different from the companies.

It will surprise you, but most of the army are non-combat personnel! YES! Not everyone runs with gun jumping into enemy's trench with bayonet!

Many soldiers see the rifle only during the MBT. There're million specializations in the army just like in the civil life. From kiosk seller to System Administrator. A friend of mine is a programmer during his active duty right now.

Why would i choose a military job over a civilian one, if i am to do the same thing? So i can have the lifetime opportunity to address my boss with sir yes sir and call it superior instead? Kiosk seller? really? That is a great objective to set for your life then, but i beg to differ.

Furthermore you even don't need a job to get killed. Car accidents took more lives than any war

how about you read some statistics then? WW2? Vietnam? Does that sound familiar?

But i am sure you can tell that to all the widows of military personnel killed in such a useless war such a Iraq, Afghanistan:

m'am, i'm sorry for your loss, but your husband/brother/son would have died in a car accident either way, so don't need to make such a big fuss out of his death. In the end he served his country, democracy and freedom fighting a mighty enemy force - insurgents, which we invaded with all our weaponry and technology! But he died with honour, even though he was hit by a friendly stray bullet. GOD bless his patriotic soul! -Insert flag- rising in the background...

Army isn't about fighting. It's about discipline. As many say "it is a school of life". Even as a sweets seller you have your responsibilities: you have to open that god damn thing at specific time, you have to do the selling and and keep the place clean. These are just few off the top of my head. I'm sure the ones who got this job could describe in more detail, like money and supplies counting(I'm again just guessing).

So again - no, it's not about fighting. It's about yourself, your country and your people.

So what you are saying is that in order to PROPERLY sell candies in a mobile shop, you first need to spend 3 years in the army? Otherwise you won't understand much of your own life, and discipline would be a term foreign to you? Logic failed?

EDIT:

You can compare the service to paying taxes. If you dont pay you benefit for youself. But you're damaging the state's economy.

I AM paying taxes. But i pay it with my money, not with my life. I feel there is a very subtle difference there, don't you?

This is total bullshit. Just because you choose one path in life doesn't mean the other one is worse.

Nor did i say that (some of us have better things to do with our lives is what i said). You can choose whatever you want to do with your life, but then again, don't push that down my neck. Mandatory army time? What for?

The argument started once void_false (what an irony, isn't it?) considers a civilian less than a man, or less of a citizen than a service man.

[pooroldspike 128]

If I was a soldier could I (or anybody else) give our 100 per cent in a war we didn't believe in?

For example I'd seriously question our involvement in Afgh; I heard Obama say on TV a while back "Our aim is not to defeat the Taliban but to contain them and prevent them spreading their influence.", so I wonder what the hell we're doing there?

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

..SO you are saying there is glory in invading a 3rd world country that is way bellow NATO forces members both in terms of technology and living conditions? And that in the name of democracy and freedom? Really? Which planet are you from?

Which war are you talking about mate?

Every one is different, but the bottom line is that if the cause is just and honourable, surely nobody has any beef with that?

[PuFu 4591]

Which war are you talking about mate?

Every one is different, but the bottom line is that if the cause is just and honourable, surely nobody has any beef with that?

I am talking in a general fashion, since WW2, there was NO such just and honorable war! If you know of one, please let me know, i am eager to be amazed

[pooroldspike 128]

I am talking in a general fashion, since WW2, there was NO such just and honorable war! If you know of one, please let me know, i am eager to be amazed

Hmm it depends on how we'd define 'just and honourable'.

The Commies invaded South Korea so we went in and booted them out.

Same with Nam, the Reds invaded the South, so we gave it our best shot and tried to stop them.

Saddam invaded Kuwait so we evicted him, then later he was rumoured to have WMD's so we went into Iraq and got him.

Were all those causes just and honourable?

[Tonci87 163]

@ PuFu, the Croatian war 1990-1995

It was a war for Freedom. (At least from the croatian point of view)

[PuFu 4591]

Hmm it depends on how we'd define 'just and honourable'.

The Commies invaded South Korea so we went in and booted them out.

Who is to judge witch political system is best for a country? I am no where near agreeing with comunism, quite on the contrary, but still, from an objective point of view, who the fuck appointed US to be the fighting knight of the world? I guess US is the only country where Honor is defined in a dictionary.

Same with Nam, the Reds invaded the South, so we gave it our best shot and tried to stop them.

and failed miserably, at the expense of the lives of the normal grunts, and their families. Just? Honorable?

Saddam invaded Kuwait so we evicted him, then later he was rumoured to have WMD's so we went into Iraq and got him.

Oh yeah, i know rumor is reason enough to start a war a level in a country in the process these days. It is just? Honorable? You think?

WMD? Doesn't US have such weapons? Or UK, or Russia? or -insert country - How come no one invades them?

Were all those causes just and honourable?

I think you answered that yourself.

The Croatian war 1990-1995

It was a war for Freedom. (At least from the croatian point of view)

That's the issue. The direction you are looking at it from. I am not even gonna start with the similarities between this and Israel issue

[pooroldspike 128]

Who is to judge witch political system is best for a country?...

WMD? Doesn't US have such weapons? Or UK, or Russia? or -insert country - How come no one invades them?..

Saddam was a madman, he'd already invaded Kuwait and gassed the Kurds,and was continually spouting anti-US rhetoric so he had to be taken out, WMD's or no WMD's..:)

(Incidentally speaking of WMD's, a few thermos flasks of chemical/biological stuff could have wiped out millions of homeland Americans; my guess is he hid them under his bed and the weapons inspectors forgot to look there)

As for political systems, it'd have been okay if the people of S.Korea and S. Vietnam had freely voted to have communism, but they didn't; the commies tried to impose it on them by force, so they asked for US help and invited them in.

As for the Balkans mess, I long ago gave up trying to figger out who was in the right and who wasn't, it's such a tangled ball of string over there.

But the only war I consider unjust was Israels military occupation of the West Bank in the 1967 Six Day War, it stirred up a hornet's nest that has been buzzing ever since. Bin Laden says it's one of the prime causes of Arab unrest, and he sees the West as supporters of Israel which is why he hates us too.

"We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation." - Osama bin Laden - to CNN in March 1997

[cartier90 0]

My OP was too ascertain whether people had had preconceived ideas of theirs changed by playing OFP/ARMA . The reality of war (randomness) at play, and the fact that it really only takes one bullet to end everything for you.

Other more practical issues show themselves in BIS games. Navigation can be quite challenging - this aspect of war is stressed and reminds me of how much soldiers rely on this 'simple' aspect to prevail in battle.

With OFP's lack of cover, I feel very vulnerable..slightly less so in ARMA2 . Compared to traditional corridor shooters where you can retreat around a corner - with multiple enemies firing at you, just what can you do ? retreat against orders ? or move and risk being caught in the open ?, BIS games would (if i seriously considered the army) make me question my own character and wonder 'just what the hell would I do ' in 'x' situation.

I am sure there is a percentage of people who in their impressionable years , back in the 90s played games that, if not encouraged at least didn't discourage them to sign up. BIS games cant help but show the reality of combat in a more realistic light and make you really think - 'This is what im getting myself into'...

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[Tonci87 163]

My OP was too ascertain whether people had had preconceived ideas of theirs changed by playing OFP/ARMA . The reality of war (randomness) at play, and the fact that it really only takes one bullet to end everything for you.

Other more practical issues show themselves in BIS games. Navigation can be quite challenging - this aspect of war is stressed and reminds me of how much soldiers rely on this 'simple' aspect to prevail in battle.

With OFP's lack of cover, I feel very vulnerable..slightly less so in ARMA2 . Compared to traditional corridor shooters where you can retreat around a corner - with multiple enemies firing at you, just what can you do ? retreat against orders ? or move and risk being caught in the open ?, BIS games would (if i seriously considered the army) make me question my own character and wonder 'just what the hell would I do ' in 'x' situation.

I am sure there is a percentage of people who in their impressionable years , back in the 90s played games that, if not encouraged at least didn't discourage them to sign up. BIS games cant help but show the reality of combat in a more realistic light and make you really think - 'This is what im getting myself into'...

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You described that really well.

[Infam0us 10]

I joined when I was playing OFP. They are nothing alike for me so it did'nt really put me off ;)

[mrcash2009 0]

I dont want to end up being the one that has the primary weapon and I cramp up and get stuck, the thought of that in the battle field scares me too much. coupled with the fact I would be sent out to middle east, then the whole issue of rocks come into play.

Edited April 10, 2011 by mrcash2009

[void_false 1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by void_false

OMG spare me with that BS please. There's no "No servicemen here" writings on uni doors. In fact, gov-ment helps you with money after you discharge. I've been thou this argument for million times.

really? they do? maybe in your country, since the military and their US partners has such an important role to play. I am sure not in mine, or most of other EU countries.

My point was that you can join the armed forced and learn afterward. What you are trying to say is that if you join then you are stuck with it for the rest of your life. Please, stop taking words out of the sentence.

I wouldn't apply for a job where my views would be different from the companies.

Are you living in the utopian world? There're always different points of view. Have you ever asked yourself "Why sould I do that instead of that?". I won't believe you if your answer is "no".

Why would i choose a military job over a civilian one, if i am to do the same thing? So i can have the lifetime opportunity to address my boss with sir yes sir and call it superior instead? Kiosk seller? really? That is a great objective to set for your life then, but i beg to differ.

Again. Please dont take the word from the sentence. The point was that if you are so sure you will die in combat then there are other options inside the armed forces.

how about you read some statistics then? WW2? Vietnam? Does that sound familiar?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision#Epidemiology

Just a quick search on the internets. Do million soldiers die in the Iraq and Afghan every year?

But i am sure you can tell that to all the widows of military personnel killed in such a useless war such a Iraq, Afghanistan:

m'am, i'm sorry for your loss, but your husband/brother/son would have died in a car accident either way

And the third time I ask you not to pick up the words. The point was that joining the army is not sighning the death sentence for yourself.

So what you are saying is that in order to PROPERLY sell candies in a mobile shop, you first need to spend 3 years in the army? Otherwise you won't understand much of your own life, and discipline would be a term foreign to you? Logic failed?

4th time? Was just an example.

[Inkompetent 0]

ArmA has opened me more to the prospect of joining the armed forces, and I have actually applied once to basic training, and I am doing it again this year (since I avoided conscription with medical papers when the time was due, and thus didn't do it before they removed conscription in Sweden. Now thanks to the removal I can get basic training anyway).

I didn't think I would function as a soldier before, but I guess that a few more years behind me, contact with ex-military people in ArmA, and just exposure to somewhat decent depictions of actual combat situations has taught me that I would probably do quite fine.

I'm not fussed about death (at least not in a way that it freaks me out/paralyzes me), and even though my level of... comradiere might be a tad low I think I have the focus, patience, tolerance, and stubborness needed.

In an all-out war I would consider myself a quite useless 'tool' though considering artillery leveling everything that anyone spots, but to do expeditionary service like in Afghanistan - that I could do.

And just to join in on the other stuff: Oh, yes! It's bad that other nations have WMDs, since only the security council in the UN is allowed to have them! US, Russia, UK, France, and China! If anyone else does it's bad, bad, bad!

Hypocracy 2000. I can see several other countries I'd rather give nukes than those listed, that are less ambitious and less dickwads. But they are the big shots, so they decide. After all it's all penis-measurement-competition, and who's got the biggest stick. Those 5 got big sticks, so they whack everyone else into line.

And USA going into South Korea and Vietnam because they actually cared about South Korea and Vietnam? Please stop being so blind and delusional! The only reasons USA went into those countries was a show of force. To show that they are at least as strong as Soviet, and that the Soviets can't do as they please, even in distant parts of the world. USA didn't, and still doesn't, give a flying fuck about those countries.

Or okay, nowadays I guess South Korea might be important due to its world-important electronics hardware industry, so I guess that's one reason to prevent that country from being shot to bits. How else are we going to get working computers in the rest of the world, in this era where not even a whole continent can be self-reliant in industry?

Global economy FTL.

[djczing 10]

Its better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you a fool

Than to open your mouth and prove it.