How to fix Arma 2 in 11 easy steps...

[KingN 249]

I haven't experienced what you are describing and as I said before, I've actually had the AI walk right past me before (about 10m away).

Eth

You saw that video though, it speaks for itself enough. If you're happy with the game working as it does, then good for you, move onto another thread or forum please. We're talking about obvious issues here that we are not satisfied with afterall. No point in this ego ranting.

[bangtail 0]

You saw that video though, it speaks for itself enough. If you're happy with the game working as it does, then good for you, move onto another thread or forum please. We're talking about obvious issues here that we are not satisfied with afterall. No point in this ego ranting.

Actually, I'll post where I like without your permission.

I have an opinion, you have an opinion. Both are on topic.

Good day,

Eth

[KingN 249]

I have an opinion, you have an opinion. Both are on topic.

With the exception that my intention is to get arma 2 better, you intention is to show your ego..

[LeadCommando65 10]

Not sure what your point is, It's daytime and the AI was 75m away when he spotted you.

That's not out of the realm of possibility.

I'm just wondering how you could get the AI to walk right past you when you've been prone in cover :eek: Maybe true, but never got that in any test. Circumstances pls: At night? Skill 0.01? Recruit difficulty? What do you mean by cover? Don't forget: We are talking about the "grass issue".

And "superpowers", puhlease, it took him almost a whole mag to kill you.

It was a test of the AI's ability to detect a player lying in long grass and not a test if he can kill the player with one bullet to head.

Turn the AI down if it's too hard for you.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I wasn't crying the game's too hard for me. I'm just curios about how people can ignore the fact that it doesn't make any sense that the AI can detect a player in the way the video shows.

It could use a little work but this business of being able to see when you are lying in tall grass is just stupid. Go out IRL and lie in tall grass and you'll see that A2 models it very well.

This comparison to real life is pointless, because the fact is that if you had been playing the same scene in the video, you surely won't have seen the player at 50m, because you can't just actually see or hear him.

Let's theorise:

Ingame you are walking towards the forest as the AI does. An enemy is lying in the long grass and shoots you down. Are you saying "Oh, but in real life, I would have seen him! :mad:". I don't believe this.

Now, if the AI can see when they are lying down in the grass, then that's an issue that needs fixing.

Eth

True, but then it needs also a fix the other way round.

[bangtail 0]

With the exception that my intention is to get arma 2 better, you intention is to show your ego..

No, your idea of "better" isn't everyone else's. You see I'd rather you went and played something else as opposed to wrecking a game in the name of what you want. There are some things that need fixing but most of the suggestions in the OP's post are things that I would NOT like to see introduced.

You actually have the audacity to imply that it's about my ego?

Enjoy ignore.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------

I'm just wondering how you could get the AI to walk right past you when you've been prone in cover :eek: Maybe true, but never got that in any test. Circumstances pls: At night? Skill 0.01? Recruit difficulty? What do you mean by cover? Don't forget: We are talking about the "grass issue".

At night, in a storm. Has happened more than once. Lying in high grass, skill at 75% (might be higher, I'd have to go into the editor)

It was a test of the AI's ability to detect a player lying in long grass and not a test if he can kill the player with one bullet to head.

Again, 75 metres on a bright day is really not out of the realm of possibility. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I wasn't crying the game's too hard for me. I'm just curios about how people can ignore the fact that it doesn't make any sense that the AI can detect a player in the way the video shows.

See my last response

This comparison to real life is pointless, because the fact is that if you had been playing the same scene in the video, you surely won't have seen the player at 50m, because you can't just actually see or hear him.

Well, the video is very grainy so it's hard to tell how visible the guy was in all honesty.

Let's theorise:

Ingame you are walking towards the forest as the AI does. An enemy is lying in the long grass and shoots you down. Are you saying "Oh, but in real life, I would have seen him! :mad:". I don't believe this.

No, I'm saying it's possible is all. Now if you were crouched behind a solid object at 100 yards where there is absolutely NO line of sight, that would be a totally different story.

True, but then it needs also a fix the other way round.

/10 chars

Edited September 1, 2009 by BangTail

[LeadCommando65 10]

At night, in a storm. Has happened more than once. Lying in high grass, skill at 75% (might be higher, I'd have to go into the editor)

Not the best testing environment. Sure, I think it's a great atmosphere if you get to this situation, but I can't believe that only night, storm, prone position and grass can hide you like this.

Again, 75 metres on a bright day is really not out of the realm of possibility.

Agreed. But if it happens all the time, it's hard to believe that there is a "realm of possibility".

Well, the video is very grainy so it's hard to tell how visible the guy was in all honesty.

The first seconds show that the player is lying behind a big grass part, which should hide him. There was no line of sight and the player couldn't move, so the AI guy shouldn't detect him.

If you don't believe it, you may want to try it for yourself:

Test mission

Settings as stated on the youtube video submission.

It's the same mission used in the video. Please let me know your results. I'm interested if they are different on a different machine :rolleyes:

[KingN 249]

You actually have the audacity to imply that it's about my ego?

That's definately the impression you gave me of yourself as you constantly seemed to disregard my true point and instead point out your opinions about totally different matters. I explained my wish multiple times clearly enough imo. Also, I can't think of any reason why fixing the ai to not detect the player through grass too easily would be something you don't want to be done. I think the ai should behave and sense as much like human as possible, don't you think the same way?

The reason I'm strict with this grass issue because it's probably the most annoying issue in the game atm among only few other issues, imo.

[bangtail 0]

Not the best testing environment. Sure, I think it's a great atmosphere if you get to this situation, but I can't believe that only night, storm, prone position and grass can hide you like this.

It's happened to me in the day as well, but they were further away when they passed us (about 25 metres).

Agreed. But if it happens all the time, it's hard to believe that there is a "realm of possibility".

I still think it's plausible but I'll be the first to admit that A2 isn't perfect.

The first seconds show that the player is lying behind a big grass part, which should hide him. There was no line of sight and the player couldn't move, so the AI guy shouldn't detect him.

As I said, the video is grainy so it's hard to say if he is visible (even if it is only a small part of his body). 75m is not that big of a distance but if the guy is totally hidden, I'd have to concede that there is a problem

If you don't believe it, you may want to try it for yourself:

I never said I didn't believe you, I just havent experienced it "in the extreme" as some others have.

Test mission

Settings as stated on the youtube video submission.

It's the same mission used in the video. Please let me know your results. I'm interested if they are different on a different machine :rolleyes:

I'll check it out and let you know.

Eth

---------- Post added at 02:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------

After seeing it for myself, I'd have to agree that in that particular scenario, the AI should not be able to see you.

He engaged at 60 metres - to be fair, his shots were far from accurate, but I still don't think he could have seen me through that brush.

Eth

[PeterEyres 0]

I think there is a general annoyance from players that to acheive the full potential of this game, you have to be proffecient at scripting. Or you have to memorise by heart, thousands of comand references and the exact words for word class names of weapons, units and ammo.

My biggest bugbears in the game?:

1: Ai Lag: Sorry guys, but the enemy ai constantly warp around the screen, they often like to break out and do a moonwalk, the constant prone/crouch/stand up/spin around, stop/turn/walk backwards/drop prone/glitch across the screen. Its rediculous. The Ai should find the nearest cover or concealment, or run to the nearest part of terrain that will provide a good chance for them preserving their life. There just isnt a sense in this game that the AI wants to stay alive. Even if it means retreating from a battle, we need it sorted. There is NO suppresion in the default game. Its is merely be seen/be shot, whoever see's or shoots first is the winner.

No it isnt hardware, this happens even on singleplayer with beastly machines, and its even worse on MP servers sitting in mahoosive data centres with access to extreme bandwidth levels, and with arma.cfg files tweaked as per recommended for server hardware/bandwidth

Fix this and it might well become an awesome game

It isnt as bad in PvP obviously, a Arma2 needs to cater more for PVP. Most PVP missions simply don't utilise the wide open world that arma provides. More to the point, I've yet to find a server that can successfull cater for large numebrs of organised people fighting for control of the Island. The netcode is abysmal

2: Ai Skill. They should be able to detect you at longer distances granted, but then prepare themselves by getting to cover, but their accuracy is far too good, smoke is useless etc I could go on.

3: Vegitation, its more of a hinderance. And I know what most will say. Grass/Bushes aren't cover...no but it is concealment! Why can the ai spot you and accurately shoot you through thick tree branches, and yet you are left frantically searching the screen for a glimpse of a uniform through thick vegitation that lags your computer. Now i wouldnt mind if this enemy fire is suppresion fire, they know you are in the general area of the concealment, but no, I usually end up with a bullet in the head and a couple on my back, if prone.

4: Features in the game that require scripting/programming

The attachTo command is pretty simple I'll admit that, but why is it that mods can successfully implement cargo systems into all missions (even if designed for vanilla Arma) but yet BIS leave out such abillity to drive a truck upto an ammo crate and load it in? This is just one of numerous examples.

Edited September 25, 2009 by PeterEyres

[Bulldogs 10]

Aiight, maybe a slightly slow response but... where's the easy steps?

[Flash Thunder 10]

I think there is a general annoyance from players that to acheive the full potential of this game, you have to be proffecient at scripting. Or you have to memorise by heart, thousands of comand references and the exact words for word class names of weapons, units and ammo.

My biggest bugbears in the game?:

1: Ai Lag: Sorry guys, but the enemy ai constantly warp around the screen, they often like to break out and do a moonwalk, the constant prone/crouch/stand up/spin around, stop/turn/walk backwards/drop prone/glitch across the screen. Its rediculous. The Ai should find the nearest cover or concealment, or run to the nearest part of terrain that will provide a good chance for them preserving their life. There just isnt a sense in this game that the AI wants to stay alive. Even if it means retreating from a battle, we need it sorted. There is NO suppresion in the default game. Its is merely be seen/be shot, whoever see's or shoots first is the winner.

No it isnt hardware, this happens even on singleplayer with beastly machines, and its even worse on MP servers sitting in mahoosive data centres with access to extreme bandwidth levels, and with arma.cfg files tweaked as per recommended for server hardware/bandwidth

Fix this and it might well become an awesome game

It isnt as bad in PvP obviously, a Arma2 needs to cater more for PVP. Most PVP missions simply don't utilise the wide open world that arma provides. More to the point, I've yet to find a server that can successfull cater for large numebrs of organised people fighting for control of the Island. The netcode is abysmal

2: Ai Skill. They should be able to detect you at longer distances granted, but then prepare themselves by getting to cover, but their accuracy is far too good, smoke is useless etc I could go on.

3: Vegitation, its more of a hinderance. And I know what most will say. Grass/Bushes aren't cover...no but it is concealment! Why can the ai spot you and accurately shoot you through thick tree branches, and yet you are left frantically searching the screen for a glimpse of a uniform through thick vegitation that lags your computer. Now i wouldnt mind if this enemy fire is suppresion fire, they know you are in the general area of the concealment, but no, I usually end up with a bullet in the head and a couple on my back, if prone.

4: Features in the game that require scripting/programming

The attachTo command is pretty simple I'll admit that, but why is it that mods can successfully implement cargo systems into all missions (even if designed for vanilla Arma) but yet BIS leave out such abillity to drive a truck upto an ammo crate and load it in? This is just one of numerous examples.

Agreed. Looking at Red Orange trees is a nightmare right now but its being taken care of atm.

I wouldn't mind a whole entire section called Scripts/Templates for Editor.

I'll tell you I read Mr Murrays Editor and my head is just spinning. :o

This scripting stuff is kind of intimidating to me, it wouldn't hurt if BIS would just provide some of the basic things for any Shooter game like Gamemode templates so you can easily make CTF games in which AI actually go capture the flag, Deathmatch games where you can easily just choose the section on the islands where you want to play, Respawn options before any Co-op mission, MP game would be nice even if its easy why doesnt BIS just throw it into the game :confused:

Weapon loadout Screens

Easily add more AI to MP games from the Lobby, Briefings Tab, and default objectives for each gamemode.

IE CTF: BIS make it so when on "Default" have the AI move to Flag/capture Flag and score, and AI to use available objects to their dispense.

As I said alot of this stuff might be easy but if its so easy why doesn't BIS just provide it in the game, alot of people would just like some of the basic things in the package.

Please BIS Do a big update for the editor, me and my friend love playing MP with just AI but the AI will only stay at their spawn, come to our spawn and spawn kill us for the whole game or just randomly run around the map with no formation. LOL

[hotel 10]

I agree with everything in the first post. The performance is the biggest concern I have. Ya know just by playing on this engine it feels clunky and unfinished. Everything from stuttering to flickering of objects/textures to huge performance decreases with orange bushes and trees.

The animations are awful. The First AID animation is so bad it makes me laugh. They could have done a hell of a better job simply put. I mean they make me laugh because of what it looks like there really doing.

The whole moaning and groaning and saying my leg hurts was like insult to injury. Why put all that there to begin with? I could understand not being able to move around very well and not being able to aim worth a damn but moaning and groaning actually just irritates me to have to listen to it. Getting shot in the leg i am stuck laying prone while moving.... I should be able to get up and slide walk across the terrain. Kinda a dragging motion with one leg.

The mission editor ................. no comment

[Flash Thunder 10]

I agree with everything in the first post. The performance is the biggest concern I have. Ya know just by playing on this engine it feels clunky and unfinished. Everything from stuttering to flickering of objects/textures to huge performance decreases with orange bushes and trees.

The animations are awful. The First AID animation is so bad it makes me laugh. They could have done a hell of a better job simply put. I mean they make me laugh because of what it looks like there really doing.

The whole moaning and groaning and saying my leg hurts was like insult to injury. Why put all that there to begin with? I could understand not being able to move around very well and not being able to aim worth a damn but moaning and groaning actually just irritates me to have to listen to it. Getting shot in the leg i am stuck laying prone while moving.... I should be able to get up and slide walk across the terrain. Kinda a dragging motion with one leg.

The mission editor ................. no comment

BIS put more on their plate than they could eat, like having the Real Time Strategy elements in the game and adding in alot of Civilians and make two islands, the game would've been more polished if the Devs introduced the small things like mentioned in an expansion or update.

Also I bet the programmers over at BIS were working to death those people had alot of stuff to work on. :eek:

Hopefully the game gets some big updates fast, because OFP DR comes out in a few days and I need to make a fair judgment on which game will recieve my Best Military Sim of This Generation Award.

Which BIS might want because I give the Dev of the game who one 125k :)

[AndresCL 10]

RTS Elements and civilians were added because of the campaing. Maybe a more "battle-focused" campaing would of worked better

[InFireBaptize 0]

you may want put performance at #1, although the proper project addons seems to boost fps, but once that fixed then other stuff will be implemented gradually. Also the some of the other things you mentioned can be fixed through modding.

[derk yall 0]

RTS Elements and civilians were added because of the campaing. Maybe a more "battle-focused" campaing would of worked better

Civilians were in the game since OFP (2001), they were also in ArmA (2006) so they werent added now in ArmA II only for the campaign. You know that in every war conflict there are civilian? And without them the conflict would be rather unrealistic.

[Bulldogs 10]

There was civilians in Arma and flashpoint but not like they are in this. In both Arma and flashpoint all the civilians and enemy soldiers were mission based. Meaning if you have a mission to attack one town then you wandered off away from that town you wouldn't see any other civilians/soldiers anywhere. In Arma 2, in the campaign, there's ambient life as in each town has civilians and there's a lot of AI scattered around the map in many missions (hence the low fps many people with slower CPU's get in the campaign)

I've actually heard a lot of people mention that there's no difference in AI and such in Arma 2 over Arma 1 so why the heavier CPU usage. People seem to not notice that beside the fact that the AI is more complex, in the campaign there's at least 20x-30x more AI spawned than in any mission in Arma 1 or OFP.