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alpha125rbf

Realistic AI firefight

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Je Balschoiw, I know what you mean.

I must tell you, it was not my intention to publish my small tweak for the all ArmA community. That’s why I made a "ArmA - ADDONS & MODS: DISCUSSION" topic. Discussion, not complete!

I thought, only people who know about ArmA more than I do, will help to improve something, or just say: "Nice try, we are working on a better tweak" or at least change here some ideas.

But a day later it was an not really plesant surprise to see that “armaholic†and â€assaultmissionstudio†are publishing. But hey, that’s the first time you are in the ArmA news! To scream “Delete it!â€, “no rights†and so on you need more power than I have. smile_o.gif

I know that config rewriting of the first version causes serious errors, (all people with basic tweaking skill know that) so I had to make a second version with not that big config replacement, as a 50kb small addon.

I warned peoples that there would be “rebalancingâ€, a more difficult campaign, and maybe errors! And I wrote ALPHA VER. 0.0002. I told how to change the config, I wrote they should be free to do it.

Then a lot of people come along and say they wanna discuss their greater thoughts (but nothing with AI improved suggestions)! You say I shouldn’t have been publishing it! Do not install, wait till the next patch comes out. By “Queen Gambit†or more rubbish if you have the money and time; enjoy the bugs of that game. Wait till the FSM MODIFICATIONS COME OUT! Or wait till OPF2 or ArmA2. smile_o.gif I played OPF for years, there was no real improved AI tweaking with new tactics, behavior, formations, maneuver.

I started ArmA and played. There was an empty machine gun and about 50 airdropped SF soldiers surrounded it for a whole mission; they had no idea what to do. This bug is from OPF 1.0. This is sick.

I don’t want to improve something – I wanna deinstall this.

nener.gif

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There's nothing at all wrong with experimenting with AI

settings (and it's painfully obvious that ArmA badly

needs them). I heartily applaud the efforts of anyone

endeavouring to correct the sorry state of the "combat AI"

in the game. The courtesy of letting others try the

adjustments out too so they can report on their in-game

effects and offer suggestions is also surely beyond reproach.

Of course it'd be nice if BIS devised and promulgated such

changes themselves, but how likely is it really that they

would be able, or even inclined, to do all the necessary

testing and experimentation, and how less likely is it that

the "community" will come to any sort of agreement without

practical testbeds such as this?

I hope alpha125rbf will continue working on this despite some

of the disparaging comments in this thread.

@ Balshoiw: I am increasingly frustrated that there is no

notion of even basic battle drills for the AI in ArmA. This is

one of the main reasons why I have to conclude that

this game is predominantly a fantasy-based "shoot-em-up"

and not a model of behaviour on a modern battlefield (despite

the ArmA advertising copy and the convictions of many

subscribers to ArmA forums).

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Quote[/b] ]Of course it'd be nice if BIS devised and promulgated such

changes themselves, but how likely is it really that they

would be able, or even inclined, to do all the necessary

testing and experimentation, and how less likely is it that

the "community" will come to any sort of agreement without

practical testbeds such as this?

I guess chances are high that values agreed upon by the community actually do make their way into Arma. If those values change the gameplay for the better I am confident that BIS will embedd them. Maybe a dedicated thread about those values, where they can be discussed wouldn´t be a bad idea. If we come to a consensus and agree on the values it could be taken to Suma or Marek.

Maybe it would be interesting to know their own opinion on this aswell. If they say "No way, we won´t change any of those values in a patch" we can scrap it , but I think they are open for input, if it makes Arma a better product.

BTW, I still have the settings in UserProfile at the default values.

Why ? Because I do missions and I have to know how they work

on Arma - out of the box.

Quote[/b] ]@ Balshoiw: I am increasingly frustrated that there is no

notion of even basic battle drills for the AI in ArmA. This is

one of the main reasons why I have to conclude that

this game is predominantly a fantasy-based "shoot-em-up"

and not a model of behaviour on a modern battlefield (despite

the ArmA advertising copy and the convictions of many

subscribers to ArmA forums).

We got the FSM editor, we have the commands to embedd new FSM´s, but still we seem to lack people who are actually able to produce something worthy with the FSM editor. As I said, I tried, but it´s not working as I expected.

Maybe a dedicated thread in the editing section could bring people together who are able to create working FSM´s and people who have ideas about needed AI routines.

Quote[/b] ]I hope alpha125rbf will continue working on this despite some

of the disparaging comments in this thread.

Seriously, I didn´t mean to critize the author (as I already wrote in the last post btw), but imo the approach should be different. In the end those values should be changed via a patch to keep Arma unified and on the same level for all. Else we will end up with with thousands of individual Arma`s and a hard time to produce missions for those thousands of settings and values.

That´s what I was trying to say.

So how about a discussion about needed FSM´s and values that do improve Arma ? Anyone interested ?

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After having spent a lot of time to find how to concretely increase the dispersion values in order to make combat last longer, resulting in a deeper immersion of the simulation, I concluded that there are 2 lines to focuse on in the cfgaiskill:

Quote[/b] ]

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, x, y};

aimingShake[] = {0, 0, x, y};

and these lines from (weapons\config) as well.

Quote[/b] ]

aiDispersionCoefX = X;

aiDispersionCoefY = X;

I keep searching for further information in this way.

Here are the values I defined for personal use

Quote[/b] ]

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.03, 0.03};

aimingShake[] = {0, 0, 0.03, 0.03};

and

Quote[/b] ]

aiDispersionCoefX = 8;

aiDispersionCoefY = 8;

Some other lines can also be tweaked to enhance the combat experience.

regards,

TB

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Good to see you've finally joined us on the dark side, Tarik. I for one am watching this very carefully, I'm sure someone out there will eventually give us cause for celebration. I'm quite happy with the AI values at the moment on my own system, but I'm sure there are some improvements to be made.

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After having spent a lot of time to find how to concretely increase the dispersion values in order to make combat last longer, resulting in a deeper immersion of the simulation, I concluded that there are 2 lines to focuse on in the cfgaiskill:

.....

thunderbird84,

I searched everywhere for information on what those cfgAISkill values actually did, and could not find a solid answer anywhere.

However, the time I spent on creating the (as yet unreleased) TrueRangeAI mod, I've finally figured out their meanings and have posted the info on the wiki. http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/CfgAISkill

Your values:

Quote[/b] ]

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 0.03, 0.03};

have the following meaning:

When AI skill is 0 or lower, aimingAccuracy is 0%

When AI skill is 0.03 or higher, aimingAccuracy is 3%

Keep in mind that the Skill slider in the mission editor ranges from 0.2 to 1.0

This means that the AI will always have an aimingAccuracy of 3% regardless of their skill level or your difficulty rating.

I personally find that value to be quite low, considering these default values:

Quote[/b] ]

aimingAccuracy[] = {0, 0, 1, 1};

which mean:

When AI skill is 0 or lower, aimingAccuracy is 0%

When AI skill is 1 or higher, aimingAccuracy is 100%

This translates to 50% accuracy with a skill level of 0.5 (or slider near the middle).

Anyway, I hope this info helps.

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What about increasing the firing distance of assault rifles? I've noticed, that even with the 500+ m spotting distance, super AI on, accuracy and precission on 1, I can snipe almost entire team from 500 with my m4. Why? Because their Mg gunners fire less rounds than I do at the same time, not using their AR's at all.  

It's still quite easy to wipe them out, not to mention being a Mgunner or sniper yourself.

Afaik all the necessary settings are located in the weapons.pbo, but neither I know how to set it correctly, nor what exactly should I change.

To me, the "realistic AI firefight" is when the AI can do exactly what I can, when it comes to engaging the enemy.

edit:

I'm currently rewriting the config according to hints Predator left in his mod. I won't relase it, untill I get the permission though. Pretty big ammount of changes there. From what I see he included changes in cfgammo to simulate bullet speeds, basically a walkaround of what NWD have done in his ballistics mod. (imo)

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^ I've noticed this too, in my own AI, and the enemy AI.

They may spot at 500m, but it seems besides MG gunners (sometimes) will not engage or shoot surpressing fire. Instead they run forward like chickens until they get within a certian range before shooting.

as a human you can shoot them all along the way as they do this. usually wiping them out single handidly.

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I think it's safe to set the settings for assault rifles much higher, not to mention sniper rifles and MGs.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

             class Single : Mode_SemiAuto {

reloadTime = 0.1;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.0025;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 400; //was 250

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 600; //was 400

maxRangeProbab = 0.04;

};

class Burst : Mode_Burst {

sound[] = {"\ca\Weapons\Data\Sound\AK74_1_SS_A", db20, 1};

soundBurst = 0;

reloadTime = 0.1;

ffCount = 3;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.007;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 200; //was 60

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 400; //was 100

maxRangeProbab = 0.05;

showToPlayer = false;

};

class FullAuto : Mode_FullAuto {

sound[] = {"\ca\Weapons\Data\Sound\AK74_1_SS_A", db20, 1};

reloadTime = 0.1;

ffCount = 30;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.005;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 60; //was 30

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 100; //was 60

maxRangeProbab = 0.05;

Now, that's suppression!

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Nice to see the ai see farther (oh, so beautifully worded tounge2.gif).

But this modification pretty much makes shilkas send you to heaven thrice before you get close enough to even lock on with the cobra...

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Quote[/b] ]Good to see you've finally joined us on the dark side, Tarik. I for one am watching this very carefully, I'm sure someone out there will eventually give us cause for celebration. I'm quite happy with the AI values at the moment on my own system, but I'm sure there are some improvements to be made.

Indeed, since ArmA more or less uses the same engine commands than its ancestor, it shouldn't be hard to get OFP's AI scripts to work in ArmA.

I'm seriously looking forward to Solus's incoming release for ArmA, which would break a lot of its engine's barriers.

Quote[/b] ]thunderbird84,

I searched everywhere for information on what those cfgAISkill values actually did, and could not find a solid answer anywhere.

However, the time I spent on creating the (as yet unreleased) TrueRangeAI mod, I've finally figured out their meanings and have posted the info on the wiki.

Thanks for letting me know about it.

Concerning the AI values, BIS coders haven't properly defined the cfgaiskill, I assume that one of their main objective was to make combat not easy to win, but the values have been set too high, making the AI deadly accurate in-game, whereas it is hard like hell to hit anything in real life, especially in High-Stress Combat Operations.

Even if my values sound low, they still allow the AI to hit you after some shots at a certain distance, but at least, now you would have a chance to survive and gain positional advantage on the enemy.

regards,

TB

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I think it's safe to set the settings for assault rifles much higher, not to mention sniper rifles and MGs.

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">

             class Single : Mode_SemiAuto {

reloadTime = 0.1;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.0025;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 400; //was 250

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 600; //was 400

maxRangeProbab = 0.04;

};

class Burst : Mode_Burst {

sound[] = {"\ca\Weapons\Data\Sound\AK74_1_SS_A", db20, 1};

soundBurst = 0;

reloadTime = 0.1;

ffCount = 3;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.007;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 200; //was 60

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 400; //was 100

maxRangeProbab = 0.05;

showToPlayer = false;

};

class FullAuto : Mode_FullAuto {

sound[] = {"\ca\Weapons\Data\Sound\AK74_1_SS_A", db20, 1};

reloadTime = 0.1;

ffCount = 30;

recoil = "AK74Recoil";

recoilProne = "AK74Recoil";

dispersion = 0.005;

minRange = 2;

minRangeProbab = 0.1;

midRange = 60; //was 30

midRangeProbab = 0.7;

maxRange = 100; //was 60

maxRangeProbab = 0.05;

Now, that's suppression!

which config file can these weapon setting be found? Also if I edit my settings will it work for everyone who plays on my hosted game?

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Isnt there a download mirror that doesnt offer porn sites pop ups? that might be detrimental to your computer?

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finally ..

you might wanna give the PROPER AI Test Framework a try smile_o.gif

Quote[/b] ]This addon provides a framework for AI testing in Armed Assault. It is sort of

a wrapper to make AI editing as simple and comfortable as possible.

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