Addons at ease

[dm 9]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([CCCP]Stalker @ April 12 2003,08:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We forgot about on small thing - SIZE !!! IF this AAE exe will be bigger or not much smaller than normal rar or zip nobodu DL it. So make a VERY high compression rate.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, a very good idea, if you [bIS] can make the AAE installer have a much higher compression rate, I think that the majority (if not all... but then there are the die hard haters) of users will use the AAE installer, as it will offer quicker downloads, and less waiting around... one thing I hate is wasteing time whilst some addon downloads...

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Stringtable: Perhaps we could create a small "translation"-corner in this forum? Since the M41a a stringtable is standard for my addons, but it's sometimes very time-consuming until you find the right translation for terms like "Mündungsfeuerdämpfer" ("muzzle flash suppressor", ...?). Not to mention mission translations...<span id='postcolor'>

Indeed... another great idea, would definately increase the popularity of the AAE system, as it would mean that everyone could play ofp in their native language without having random bits of english (or any other language) poping up in the game...

[Gen.Carnage 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, a very good idea, if you [bIS] can make the AAE installer have a much higher compression rate<span id='postcolor'>

better compressionrate than zip or rar? good luck!

[Guest BratZ]

I have thought more on this and it probably should only include complete mods.Leaves out my mods as mine will stay beta until I stop playing OFP. So this topic doesnt relate to me.

[-CCCP-Stalker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen.Carnage @ April 12 2003,17:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, a very good idea, if you [bIS] can make the AAE installer have a much higher compression rate<span id='postcolor'>

better compressionrate than zip or rar? good luck! <span id='postcolor'>

Why not ? Rar 3 is much better than RAR 2 so why can't BIS make something even better ?

[bn880 5]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([CCCP]Stalker @ April 12 2003,12:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen.Carnage @ April 12 2003,17:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, a very good idea, if you [bIS] can make the AAE installer have a much higher compression rate<span id='postcolor'>

better compressionrate than zip or rar? good luck! <span id='postcolor'>

Why not ? Rar 3 is much better than RAR 2 so why can't BIS make something even better ?<span id='postcolor'>

Who will pay them for the time

as for someone complaining about installers above, I know where you are coming from, but you are missing the point that an installer will overall make life easier and save time for most players. As I said before, some addons are a pain in the butt to install for even EXPERIENCED computer users. You have to be a hardcore OFP gamer to install all addons without any time wasted.

[-CCCP-Stalker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ April 12 2003,20:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote ([CCCP]Stalker @ April 12 2003,12:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Gen.Carnage @ April 12 2003,17:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, a very good idea, if you [bIS] can make the AAE installer have a much higher compression rate<span id='postcolor'>

better compressionrate than zip or rar? good luck! <span id='postcolor'>

Why not ? Rar 3 is much better than RAR 2 so why can't BIS make something even better ?<span id='postcolor'>

Who will pay them for the time  

as for someone complaining about installers above, I know where you are coming from, but you are missing the point that an installer will overall make life easier and save time for most players.  As I said before, some addons are a pain in the butt to install for even EXPERIENCED computer users.  You have to be a hardcore OFP gamer to install all addons without any time wasted.<span id='postcolor'>

Who will pay for the time ? Gamers who will buy OFP 'cos it's really fun and easy now ! If we will send AAE packages to PC gamer magazines I think it will boost OFP:R Personally I will try to send RSS addons to Russian magazines

[PicVert 0]

Yes the tag system is the best way to debuging.

Yes an installer would be great. But with some custom action for Modmaker like icon and txt.

No mission with the addon take some time more They come when no idea for addon came too.

Yes an URL description in MP for missed addon would be great. or a button near the Name of Server who describe the addon needed and URL to it.

in fact I agree to the AAE before it's born

Oh just a work about OFP 2 I hope the compatibilty stay for addons we making ? Just for buying the game

Nice submission BIS.

[andersgrim 0]

people say they refuse to use installers. But at the same time a lot of gamers have downloaded mod demos which actually uses an installer themself.;)

But why dont just make one AAE installer and one zip?

Thats what i will do.

cant be too hard...  

[mads bahrt 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Leone @ April 10 2003,14:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also remember that people who make addons don't necessarily make missions. Or that isn't how they choose to spend their time.<span id='postcolor'>

I could imagine a missionmaking-for-beta-testing market. What i mean by that:

There are a lot of people out there who would like to get their hands on the not yet released Harrier/Carrier/island or anyother new addon. I would expect that they would be willing to make missions as a "payment" for being able to get the latest addons before anyone else.

[Gummi 0]

I think there should be a AAE corner in the forum where addon makers and mission makers work together. Addon makers post up they want a mission to be done for a addon, and mission makers come and choose a nice addon to make mission for.

And also it should be possible at the same time to translate the addons to more languages.

[Guest ####]

Personally I think if they are going to waste the time making an auto installer for addons they should make another patch that addresses the wheeled vehicle issue instead. Then we can have hummers w/ Tow launchers and LAV's galore.

[rbeni12 0]

When it's going to be released ?

I think this is a good idea BIS:). but it have some problems .....

[pzvg 0]

Installer? <sigh> yeah I remember us ASKING for that.

OPEC-TAG system, you know, not to bash OPEC or any other addon maker, but I do recall in my experience with the Flightsim mod community, that anything that segregates the community is bad for the community.

I think this would be a mistake, and I also think that restructing the mod community should be up to the mod community, not the game devs, no offense, but what's in it for you?

<yes I'm suspicious, if you had paid for a commercial aircraft addon in the past only to find it contained one of your mods, you would be too>

[andersgrim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (pzvg @ April 13 2003,14:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think this would be a mistake, and I also think that restructing the mod community should be up to the mod community, not the game devs, no offense, but what's in it for you?<span id='postcolor'>

how do you restruct a mod community??

I thought i knew the community pretty well, but after exploring there was atleast 20 sites id never seen b4, I found out ive only known MY corner of the community.

[Skier55d 0]

im thinkin somethin like this...

instead of a bunch of small EXE installers that install only some addons, have a program that works like an updater that can connect to a database of addon files on the internet, let you select which ones you want, download and automatically install... its a pretty simple idea... that way you avoid registry cluttering and other problems encountered, only problem is the space these addons may take up, collecting and upkeeping a public database of addons and so on... but that's what i think.

[andersgrim 0]

would be pretty smart. but who would host that giant database?

anyway - the prog could download a file directly to the addon folder... and missions could be programmed to get copied to the campaign,mission or mpmission folders..

[Dwarden 1124]

Hopefully BIS not stops only on selecting addons and maintain link database, i suggest ALL files should be hosted by CodeMasters, also site should allows addon maker to update new builds and descriptions THEMSELF (of course need be aproved by BIS to be published). Why? Website and file hosting can change, server structure can change, download limits can rans out etc etc.

I also fully agreed what said DeathMeat (Standardisation of models and textures(i add sounds too)) and others (about e.g. differ byte paching), naming scheme like  OFPEC TAG is must. Also options before install should include normal and expert mode (ability to select which files to install and directory WHERE to install), alternative ZIP must exist for server use. I agree these "aproved" addons should be compilations of whole packs (no single units).

Ideally AAE initiative needs e.g. ability server to trigger client to download addon package from official BIS server and install in background (or exit OFPR and restart) while waiting on join

I finds this initiative great, especially to bring more people to buy OFPR/GOTY !

MOD and ADDON comunity will only gain by this cause standalone makers will joins each other to be able release compiled pack for major use (not everyone is capable go thru 20 sites to find addon xy, and after download 30MB and reading .nfo and visiting author's site to discover there is already new build .).

--------

but ... what i find strange ... it seems BIS decided 1.91 is last update (someone from BIS correct me when i'm wrong). And it looks like for relative long time no OFP product for PC.

When we look at EPIC, they supported old UT game even they already were finishing reworked engine for UT2003. And on end they signed pact with group of programmers (covered by NDA or contract) to continue work on updates (optimalizations, security fixes and such (not major code changes). SO in fact customers ARE still getting theirs product updated and cash "value" of product is maxed out.

So what hell i want say with this?

There are some issues with OFPR like missile cant be fired from wheel vehicle and some others WHICH affecting existance of better addons.I'm sure all it needs are "small" code tweaks and changes.

There are also small network sync (timeouts) issues, when they stays unfixed, it lowers number of players in MP heavy.

List of major issues is bit longer but not so long to give up on updating (hopefully).

These details decrease VALUE of such initative as "quality addons mark".

-------

P.S.

Now something not about addons but it can huge changes quality of how OFPR "look" - especially very detailed models.

VideoCards supporting npatches can reach improvements in quality of models - especially for soldiers and rounded parts.

In fact i speak about DX8 ATI R200/250 and derivates (8500/9000/9100/9200), and DX9 R300(9500/9700), RV350 (9600/Mobility9600), R350 (9800)).

I'm sure everyone heard about TrueForm (Rv2xx) and TrueForm 2.0 (R3xx)),adding support for THIS feature is question of hours, full implementation including testing of max 1 week (official comment from skilled developer(s)).

No need for changing models or drastic engine changes, it's VERY SIMPLE to use. And performance drop is small!

In fact whole principe is simple, it just split triangle into smaller (e.g. 4) triangles (using vertices and normals at vertice).

ATI techdoc: http://mirror.ati.com/technology/hardware/pdf/truform.pdf

Please don't argue about TrueFormâ„¢ thats just ATI's name for this, but nPatches are part of DX8 (as HoS - Higher Order Surfaces)

or that ATI don't support developers well (thats not truth minimally for some years), in fact they support them very well.

Because words are not capable to describe see Results: http://www.morrowind.nm.ru/Morrowi....#npatch

Some info to explain for normal user: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1476&p=2

.... just try ONLY imagine look of e.g. BAS's addons with this {drool} ....

I believe that good developer not leave his product IF he can gain more cash and loyal users from it.

Each sold OFPR / GOTY box means more cash for developing new OFP2 and also each happy user mean bigger chance he buy next generation game from BIS.

And i'm sure millions of owners of DX9 R3xxx chips and (tens)millions of these who own R2xx chips are enough to consider this.

And i not want see OFPR community comminuted and leaving after release of next gen FPS in Q2-Q4 this year ...

-----------

P.P.S. btw OFP:CWC ends at 1.46 so OFP:R/GOTY should ends MINIMALLY at 1.92 !!! HEHEHE

... now ALL please support me and not stab ... i'm with BIS, all i want is we get more people to buy it, play it and more for this excelent game.

[andersgrim 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dwarden @ April 13 2003,22:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.P.S. btw OFP:CWC ends at 1.46 so OFP:R/GOTY should ends MINIMALLY at 1.92 !!! HEHEHE<span id='postcolor'>

long book youve written there. I made it through it!!

well, sure, but what happens when you get to patch 1.99??

then you would be (almost) forced to buy the OFP2 version (which i persume will be version 2.00 or higher)

But this addon online DBase thingy sounds great. mabye someone would like to open a big site and start organize this things. Like make a connection between the addon database, addonmakers, mod teams, the ofpec tag system and so...

Kind of "THE addon publishment site"...

[Dwarden 1124]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (andersgrim @ April 13 2003,23:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dwarden @ April 13 2003,22:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.P.S. btw OFP:CWC ends at 1.46 so OFP:R/GOTY should ends MINIMALLY at 1.92 !!! HEHEHE<span id='postcolor'>

long book youve written there.  I made it through it!!

well, sure, but what happens when you get to patch 1.99??

then you would be (almost) forced to buy the OFP2 version (which i persume will be version 2.00 or higher)

But this addon online DBase thingy sounds great. mabye someone would like to open a big site and start organize this things. Like make a connection between the addon database, addonmakers, mod teams, the ofpec tag system and so...

Kind of "THE addon publishment site"...<span id='postcolor'>

when BIS continues with updates (92 and so on to 99) i'm sure chance that You, me and many others buy 2.xx increase x times ...

P.S. well, who said BIS must use only 2 digits after . , like 1.921

[hellfish6 7]

I'm pretty sure that Marek or Suma said that 1.91 was the final patch.

[Blake 0]

...That's why the modding community would appreciate receiving decrypted v1.91 config source files from BIS so total conversion mods would be possible. Total conversion mods are the direction which OFP is going. Combining single addons for big packs would be best, single addons are a bit annoying to download and install. Nam Pack 2 and BAS delta rangers are good example of addons forming into something bigger and better.

[Dwarden 1124]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ April 13 2003,23:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm pretty sure that Marek or Suma said that 1.91 was the final patch.<span id='postcolor'>

That will be sad, cause i can garant to u that setting High and Very High surface details + hi resolution + AA + AF make OFPR unstable and jerky.

nor GeforceFX 5200/5600 nor Radeon 9500/9700/9800 (both checked myself).

nor speed of CPU (XP 2400+ or p4 2.53 and higher)

nor size&speed of memory (1GB DDR400)

AND i find that REALLY strange cause i remember when was told me from BIS staff, You will be able use excelent visual details and number of units with next generation of VideoCards and CPUs. Now when that time comes i discovering truth isn't so nice.

[Lt_Damage 0]

I would like to voice my support of this initiative. I think it is a great idea.

Addons have been around for a long time, but as a server administrator I have had many headaches using them.

Players simply have problems installing them, or even knowing a server uses them. You can write all the instructions in the world, you can create automatic installer packages but players still have problems and the unfriendlyness for simple players means they go play something easier.

When we setup the OGN server I wanted this problem eliminated so we did something very simple.

We use many great addons on the server. We do not provide any links to where to download the individual addons, we don't need to, we have 1 simple file that takes care of all of it.

We made an automatic update tool which simply is run by the player whenever they are about to play on the server, it checks our ftp server for a filelist and compares whats in the player's OFP dir with what is on the server. If the player is missing addons it automatically downloads them and installs them into the correct area of the OFP directory.

It could not be more simple.

For a look at how it works you can download the installer here

If more servers used this method it doesn't matter how computer illiterate a player is, anyone can run this tool.

Of course this is quite apart from the actually TAGing of addons for compliance, I think this is a great step forward.

Regards,

[Skier55d 0]

continuing on thoughts on the "updater" program...

in more detail i think it could work like this...

1. Establish a page or small site that is hosted by Codemasters or BIS, that way everything is done officially and can be reviewed and rated according to one official grading system. This site would be dynamic (similar to OFPEC's addon system), if you wanted to submit an addon, go to the submission page, submit the file add a description, picture, and other necessary info (for the OFPEC tag system for AAE) to be reviewed by BIS, Codemasters or whoever hosts the site. When it has been reviewed and accepted, it would be uploaded to the site, then a link along with the description and so on would be added to the database i mentioned earlier, that way files aren't spread between a variety of sites  and narrows the field of error.

2. At the site, you can download an official "AAE" updater program made by BIS or Codemasters. The interface should be simple, straight-forward and easy to understand (similar to something you might see on the Windows Updater web page). You can check for updates which would retrieve the current list of files then check it against the OFP Addons folder (or in this case ofp/res/addons folder since it is primarily made to support 1.91) to see which addons are currently installed. Ones that are not installed can simply be downloaded and automatically installed for the user so there is no copying of files to any OFP folders therefore no confusion among simple computer users. Inside the updater could be an addon manager that allows you to easily get information about currently installed addons, and allow the user to automatically un-install the file if necessary, with once again, no messy file sifting.

but with every idea there are problems, some of which could be keeping databases up to date, the time-comitment for reviewing files, or the amount of official sponsorship from BIS (hopefully this won't be a problem).

This is what i have in mind...  

[Skier55d 0]

dang, lt_dammage got his reply out before me (3 mins before me cause i was typin) , but its nice to see we both have similar ideas.

BY the way lt_damage, your addon/installer program is almost the perect example of what i want, only its missing more detail and info on each addon and lacking my idea for a addonmanager too, but i think BIS should use his installer as a template for the AAE.