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dayglow

Ai thread

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Crassus @ 27 April 2003,03:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Also, I would like to be able to order formations for each of the fire teams. Currently formation orders affect the whole squad, but mode/behavior orders can affect selected teams.

Modes: If in a "stealth" mode--I would call it a "patrol" mode, and it would be set/triggered AUTOMATICALLY by how fast I'm walking--when I walk slow, my squad walks slow. No need to set the mode/behavior then walk slow. If I halt when in "patrol" mode, then the squad halts and faces outboard and to the rear to cover their sectors. If I've not moved forward after say 30 seconds then the squad members AUTOMATICALLY kneel. If I've still not moved forward, but only taken a look around, then they go prone, still facing outboard. As in real life, I would have to order "move out", either with the action menu, or the "radio"

Taking fire would automatically set "combat" mode, and the team closest to the threat would automatically lay down suppressing fire. The other team would AUTOMATICALLY move to the fire team in contact to add fires. It would then be up to the player/squad leader what happens during that engagement. I see small dialogs appear that allow things like "Team Alpha base of fire" and "Team Bravo, flank left". And this would be a true maneuver left, not merely a shift to the far left. The fire team would seek the best cover or concealment and attack the enemy from the left. This is what gets the wood going! crazy.gif Seeing a your fire teams moving like a well-oiled machine!<span id='postcolor'>

You should have the option of using hand signals to control the squad instead of the stupid radio as well. It should be something you could switch on and off.

Also, your squad should react in this manner to incoming fire according to their experience level. An experienced fire team would respond with suppressing fire, an inexperienced one would panic and run. Experience levels in the middle would duck and cover or return sporadic fire.

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What about a "berserker" attitude ? I mean a soldier crack under pressure and fight in a crazy state like screamming running and firing at nothing and disobeying

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I think the worst example of the ai 'knowing' where you are was the mission in Resistance where you have to stop the tanks attacking with mines and satchel charges as well as some other tank squads. Well I had my satchels all setup nice and the enemy ran over the mines, then into my satchel fields. Well I set of the satchels and took a tank and BMP. Right away the other tanks wheeled around and started firing at my position inside the forrest! They 'knew' where I was after the attack, even though they were satchels and there would be no way to know where the trigger is.

COLINMAN

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PitViper @ 28 April 2003,19:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AI needs some self-management of ammo as well as picking up special items such as LAW's or MG's if the teammembers with them have fallen.<span id='postcolor'>

Here here!

I get sick of stupid AI saying "ammo low" when there are bodies and ammo crates everywhere - they should have the intelligence to gather their own ammo without you having to hold their hand. Of course, they should probably ask permission rather than just running off - they might run straight into an enemy field of fire...

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DayGlow @ 24 April 2003,23:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">For myself one of the biggest things lacking in all combat simulations is an ai with more 'human' like qualities. The ai in OFP is very good taticaly, using gernades and flanking manouvers, but it is still lacking suppressive fire.<span id='postcolor'>

Flanking maneuvres? Where?

I've never seen the OFP AI try any effective flanking maneuvres whatsoever. In the every contact I've had with the veteran/ super AI, the enemy has sat on their arse while I've picked them off with an M21 or HK etc. BTW, I'm no noob, I've had OFP for nearly two years now.

I'm running a super fast PC, so don't tell me my PCs too slow for the AI to "think" about tactics either. Now, Close Combat on the PC - there was real flanking biggrin.gif

If you call a single enemy AI soldier running in a random direction, or directly towards you a flanking maneuvre, so be it.

I await the usual crap replies etc, but before you turn flame mode ON, play OFP for a bit, for example on the "Bomber Man" single mission. Tell me if you were flanked by the AI. I bet you're not.

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hum... when a officer orders a soldier to engage a target that soldier will try to aproach you from a left/right flank, ofcourse not very efectively when under sniper fire (bomber man wink.gif ).

One thing i would like to see "fixed" is the way bots react in dense forests, its like the trees aint even there crazy.gif , i like to run around those thick forests of everon but the moment i see enemies there i get the hell out, it kinda feels the a.i. can see throu all that vegetation and shoot moving targets throu all those trees mad.gif , i hope they will be able to fix that.

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AI does flank sometimes. Not every time, but usually if you start shooting at a group, miss one or two (maybe behind buildings or bushes) and start shooting at another group, they will pop up to your side.

Good example on rescue the clown, at the second village I get flanked by the AI all the time.

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Rescue the clown?!!! What do you mean? Never heard of that mission biggrin.gif

I'm not trying to be an argumentative arse (my missus does that very well lol) but I am 100% certain that there's no flanking. I believe the AI just sends random enemy troops in random directions.

Consider this: If the AI really flanks, why does it just send 1 soldier at a time? Why not 2 or 3?

Don't get me wrong, I love OFP - but the AI needs to be updated to be a more aggressive, intelligent fighter. Instead of working on fancy vertex shading and specular lighting, BIS should put their energies into the AI.

And make the soldiers RUN when they are under fire in the open, dammit! confused.gif

I wonder if any of the BIS team would care to comment on the flanking AI? Apart from "you're banned" biggrin.gif

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If you ever played with anything besides a sniper rifle, you'd see that the AI groups do indeed flank you. Just last night I stumbled upon a group of Bibmi's African militia in a mission I'm making and though I opened fire on them from about 150m, two of them ran into the forest, coming out behind me and started peppering me with AK fire. Luckily they were high dispersal weapons, otherwise I'd have been waxed.

And this is coming from an African militia group lead by a corporal with minimal skill settings. I've seen high-skill Spetznaz AI do much better.

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The AI should stop crouching into the water when they're under a heavy threat. mad.gif

at least... that happens at the bridge on Nogova.

Stand ground DAMMIT!

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A new stuff about AI units. Would it be possible to see them surrender if there is no chance to win and/or survive (for example I scripted something similar which makes soldiers lay down the weapons if in front of a tank and no means to blow it up sad.gif ) . I don't like shooting on people that can do nothing to stop me.

Hope not to be alone...

Thx.

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That would awesome if the enemy surrenders in hopeless situation. Same should go of course to your own team mates.

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Let's talk about enemy ai that peek around corners with their guns and fire at you. Let's talk about if there's a helicoptor on the map somewhere and the enemy ai has a radio man they can call in an emergency evacuation and you can actually hear their voices screaming it out. Let's talk about enemy ai that when they retreat they pick up their injured partners over their shoulder or drag them off. Let's talk about enemy ai that toss grenades around corners without looking. Hell, we would be talking about medal of honor but I'd like to see this in ofp. Let's talk about a ladder slide animation and I know IGI did it first but sometimes in order to make a great game you have to borrow ideas from other ones and can't let anyone stop you. Let's talk about being able to crouch even when you don't have a weapon. That's very necessary. Let's talk about the vulnerability of actually climbing a ladder and having to wait to put the gun in your hand once you reach the top before you can shoot because that's a big problem for me. I say that once the guy reaches close to the top of the ladder he automatically pulls his gun out and slings it under his shoulder or something or at least make it so that wherever you aim the mouse the gun points in that direction as well as your head. I'm talking about while climbing a ladder. Let's talk about how when I climb a ladder and hit the E key for turbo my guy doesn't climb faster. For a U.S. soldier he doesn't climb fast enough in the first place.

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Changes to the AI? You all missed this:

When commands are issued even AI to AI, let the one giving the order Directly Speak it in field. So that it can sometimes be heard, how about that? smile.gif Same when you give commands over the radio, shouldn't it be audible at close distance?

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Personally i think they should get rid of that radio system, it should be shouting system. I bet there is no army in the world that can issue radio for every soldier.

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There is goeth, but there wasn't a few years ago when OFP2 is probably going to be set.

Yanks have some sort of radio thing and UK is just starting to use PRR (Personal Role Radios) - they are very good, I had a shot of them a couple of times. Very handy.

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Agreed smile.gif yelling in the field is a must IMHO.

while bullets hail down on your position

while your buddy lies dying next to you

while an enemy T80 is rolling toward your position and all you got is an M16

Well then...

My guess is that with a radio or not youre still probably gonna scream your orders while u piss your pants.

BTW I dont think I saw a single clip on BBC or CNN during the Iraq conflict where I couldnt hear all the soldiers, quite clearly, yelling commands to each other.

My AI needs and wants are (that I can think of ATM):

1. Enable AI to see objects and use them for cover. Get em to use the sand bags, use windows, use building corners, use elevated postions. Stop them from sending a perfectly good sniper on a bayonet charge.

2. Like u all have said b4, covering fire, pray and spray, fire blind around corners, AI needs to apply it and also react to it.

Seeing a tango and knowing they are there are two different things--ATM AI has to see us to know we are there and maintain that visual contact in order to fire.

3. Injuries need to mean more. AI rolling around on the ground yelling in pain, getting up running then stumbling, if only for a short period of time after they are shot. They need to be incapacitated according to the injury. Perhaps same should apply to player.

Note:Without this feature I see no actual need for dragging or carrying wounded (which would be great). If you tried to carry a player in a MP game as it stands now he/she would probably tell u to bugger off because even tho theyve been wounded they can still fire accurately or maybe even can still run, depending on the injury.

3. Like to see shell shock or stunning implemented.

4. As said b4 moral/emotional changes according to the circumstances would be great.

5. Indoor fighting needs to be improved, AI are virtually blind inside and we fall through too many walls. Buildings need to be more occupant friendly.

6. I agree about the AI flying and driving. Needs BIG improvement.

Cant think of any more at the mo--I is a wery tired boy.

Last words. After saying that IMHO opflash is still , without a doubt, the greatest FPS/RTS/virtual battle field ever made. Says a lot for a company that never made a war game before.

I hope that freedom of thought and pursuit of excellence will carry through to OPFLASH 2. I'm sure it will.

Zay

smile.gif

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Able to use smoke grenades effective and they won't be able to look trough smoke

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My priorities for the AI would be;

FIBUA as discussed above, including better use of grenades. As I see it the AI only uses grenades when they know where a target is. I mostly use grenades blind, throwing them over walls or buildings to clear my way.

Surpressing fire and better survival instincts including surrender.

More initiative, a medic should move to a wounded soldier automatically. If under air attack and the guy with the AA launcher is killed somebody should have the sense to pick it up without being told.

Better response to situational awareness. I get tired of fighting over a ridge while the rest of my unit stand back and do nothing cause they can't see over a bump in the ground. Sound or bodies / wrecks should bring a more active response.

All that said I still think OFP1 has some of the best AI on the market.

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Also, grenade attacks at night are non-directional. It pisses me off to lob a grenade in the darkness at a target and immediately have the survivors of the attack shoot you because they miraculously figured out your location from the lob. This doesn't happen in real life. To make the AI more realistic, it should fire blindly in all directions in response to such an attack, not know where the attacker is immediately.

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I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but what's with the detonation on impact grenades? Is there even such a thing in RL? Normal, 5-second fuse grenades are a definate must.

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</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (USMC Sniper @ 12 May 2003,04:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but what's with the detonation on impact grenades? Is there even such a thing in RL? Normal, 5-second fuse grenades are a definate must.<span id='postcolor'>

impact frag hand grenades do exist, just... they're rarely used IRL.

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About the frags, it's an obvious must to include timed frags and ones you can at least roll in. smile.gif

Yeah, would you want to use a contact frag? Don't throw too hard.

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