Arma 3 Third-Party DLC Pitch Discussion

[Callsign 128]

13 hours ago, daveallen10 said:

A good idea for sure. However, the game and DLC potential is held back the most at this point by the game technology: an old animation system, wonky physics package, etc...

 

The content I want most is not new assets or scenarios, but basic game improvements: improved friendly and enemy AI capable of clearing buildings, fix for the vast amount of clipping issues that make interior gunplay challenging, rooms with clutter in them, melee combat or simply a combat knife, more realistic night vision and thermal vision. 

 

I imagine this can only be achieved by a complete overhaul of the game - ie. making an entirely new one - ie. Arma4. I'm ok with this as that's what you'd expect from a company.

I'm curious about the 3PDLC route. I think if it works like the official DLC we'll see good uptake. Perhaps BIS could collaborate with the community (polls, discussion threads) about the most wanted features/ units and then modders could have something to work from? Something like a strategic roadmap for content in the Armaverse. My worry otherwise is we'll just see very niche mods that won't sell or integrate the community.

Also - what are BIS's plan for backwards compatibility in Arma4? Will mods like CUP have to completely overhaul configs etc. yet again? It seems a shame to constantly be losing all these hours of work that modders put in and making more work to keep content working.

[M. Glade 524]

10 minutes ago, Callsign said:

I imagine this can only be achieved by a complete overhaul of the game - ie. making an entirely new one - ie. Arma4. I'm ok with this as that's what you'd expect from a company.

I'm curious about the 3PDLC route. I think if it works like the official DLC we'll see good uptake. Perhaps BIS could collaborate with the community (polls, discussion threads) about the most wanted features/ units and then modders could have something to work from? Something like a strategic roadmap for content in the Armaverse. My worry otherwise is we'll just see very niche mods that won't sell or integrate the community.

Also - what are BIS's plan for backwards compatibility in Arma4? Will mods like CUP have to completely overhaul configs etc. yet again? It seems a shame to constantly be losing all these hours of work that modders put in and making more work to keep content working.

 

If we did that everyone wouldn't vote and just want Altis Life or whatever the fuck its called, King of the Hill? 

 

I don't really think the BIS forums would count, we're a very hardline and fanatic division of the ArmA community. What our needs are differs to what the mainstream A3 player cares, yes our opinion is probably the most accurate when it comes to game mechanics and performance. But seriously, if it was polled say on Steam everyone would just ask for more vanilla police units and whatever else cool things you want, or their own armed forces as a DLC. 

 

The DLCs submitted should be based on merits of the expansion, quality, conformability to the base game and initial investment into the mod. A good example is third party campaigns, 1000s and 1000s of dollars are invested into professional VA and many hours are also spent in development, this applies to larger projects aswell (which would be harder to implement due to their nature), dozens of developers focus on creating assets and most of these people put some priority on doing so and in a fair world would require payment. 

[Callsign 128]

4 minutes ago, M. Glade said:

 

If we did that everyone wouldn't vote and just want Altis Life or whatever the fuck its called, King of the Hill? 

 

I don't really think the BIS forums would count, we're a very hardline and fanatic division of the ArmA community. What our needs are differs to what the mainstream A3 player cares, yes our opinion is probably the most accurate when it comes to game mechanics and performance. But seriously, if it was polled say on Steam everyone would just ask for more vanilla police units and whatever else cool things you want, or their own armed forces as a DLC. 

 

The DLCs submitted should be based on merits of the expansion, quality, conformability to the base game and initial investment into the mod. A good example is third party campaigns, 1000s and 1000s of dollars are invested into professional VA and many hours are also spent in development, this applies to larger projects aswell (which would be harder to implement due to their nature), dozens of developers focus on creating assets and most of these people put some priority on doing so and in a fair world would require payment. 

I think we're basically saying the same thing. I totally agree on the merits side of thing - it's just I think BIS/ modders will have to try and get a sense of what will sell from the community and I think that's where the polls come in. BIS could poll the community (advertising on steam and armaholic etc.) and have specific themes (ie. air, marine, naval, civilian, mission pack) around what assets the community might like. BIS and prospective DLC modders would then have something to go on. I'd be particularly interested if that included additions to the engine/ base game - like slingloading or radar have done.

To be fair we could do with some more civilian assets (*cough* women *cough*) to give mission makers more options. I don't care for Life stuff either but BIS will undoubtedly want to tap into that market in some form.

[M. Glade 524]

11 minutes ago, Callsign said:

I think we're basically saying the same thing. I totally agree on the merits side of thing - it's just I think BIS/ modders will have to try and get a sense of what will sell from the community and I think that's where the polls come in. BIS could poll the community (advertising on steam and armaholic etc.) and have specific themes (ie. air, marine, naval, civilian, mission pack) around what assets the community might like. BIS and prospective DLC modders would then have something to go on. I'd be particularly interested if that included additions to the engine/ base game - like slingloading or radar have done.

To be fair we could do with some more civilian assets (*cough* women *cough*) to give mission makers more options. I don't care for Life stuff either but BIS will undoubtedly want to tap into that market in some form.

 

Yeah definitely, if this HAD to be something to go off of I think the already established MANW contest's criterias would be good. Excluding the gamemodes and total modifications, would work pretty well. 

[stburr91 995]

Maybe it would be useful to create a thread for people to make suggestions, but instead of a wish list, it would be a list of suggestions that people would be willing to pay for.

 

This could be useful for both BI, and potential 3rd party developers.  

[armored_sheep 56]

On 1. 11. 2017 at 8:31 PM, x3kj said:

Another thing i'm wondering:  How does continued development of a DLC3P (O?) post it's release work? Is this a thing, or should the content be fully complete before release (apart from bugfixes)?

Post release updates should be possible.

[lexx 1331]

Not just should, they have to, otherwise it'll be shitty with bugs and all that jazz. :>

I'm preparing something right now, but it'll need more time. If everything goes well, I might have something to send out at the end of this month or mid december.

[x3kj 1247]

14 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

Post release updates should be possible.

And what about source code modifications?

[fn_Quiksilver 1633]

On 11/8/2017 at 8:10 PM, lexx said:

Not just should, they have to, otherwise it'll be shitty with bugs and all that jazz. :>

I'm preparing something right now, but it'll need more time. If everything goes well, I might have something to send out at the end of this month or mid december.

 

addon or campaign?

[eh chaser 285]

What kind of DLC is possible, i think the question was asked before but i don´t see any answer yet.

Is it just an addon like RHS or is it stuff like a single vehicle or is it terrains aswell?

And in terms of Terrains, what about the assets? I think most terrain makers are using CUP objects atm. I think it will not be possible to release some kind of premium dlc with the usage of a free object depency, right?

 

Regards

 

Chaser

[lexx 1331]

@fn_Quiksilver: Campaign, but also some unique assets (similar to what I did with CM and the mountainbike, etc). I will stay realistic and don't go too wild with my ideas, though, because this thing needs to be feasable. Will see where it leads me to. Right now it's still too early and uncertain.

[M. Glade 524]

2 hours ago, eh chaser said:

What kind of DLC is possible, i think the question was asked before but i don´t see any answer yet.

Is it just an addon like RHS or is it stuff like a single vehicle or is it terrains aswell?

And in terms of Terrains, what about the assets? I think most terrain makers are using CUP objects atm. I think it will not be possible to release some kind of premium dlc with the usage of a free object depency, right?

 

Regards

 

Chaser

 

You'll probably have to re-create those assets. No dependencies allowed, similar to what happened with MANW, remember you'll be making a living from this and then you'd have to get the people of CUP to sign off. Also, majority of that is just ported buildings from previous ArmA games and BIS probably doesn't want anymore recycling. 

[x3kj 1247]

6 hours ago, eh chaser said:

Is it just an addon like RHS or is it stuff like a single vehicle or is it terrains aswell?

And in terms of Terrains, what about the assets? I think most terrain makers are using CUP objects atm. I think it will not be possible to release some kind of premium dlc with the usage of a free object depency, right?

They said they are open - however, considering they want to limit it to ~5 DLC per year, trying to sell just a single vehicle would be underwhelming and i doubt it would be popular. A pack of similar vehicles and logical additions is what jet DLC was - and i guess that would be more acceptable to people than "here, i made a thing" DLC.

 

Terrain assetts could be a DLC as well... only difficulty is for terrain creators, but i guess they could be provided with lower detailed object proxies for map placement

 

3 hours ago, M. Glade said:

You'll probably have to re-create those assets. No dependencies allowed, similar to what happened with MANW, remember you'll be making a living from this [...]

Expecting to make a living is an optimistic gamble. Although BIS haven't given contract details, this is not creators club where Bethesda pays you to make something. You make it and you get a cut when it sells.

 

[AveryTheKitty 2626]

I've mentioned this to the developers before but a package of parts shared among assets such as the RCWS, miniguns, and Mk30 HMGs would be ideal for vanilla-themed content. Yes, it's copy-pasted but it's the consistency of Arma 3. It could be released as part of the Arma 3 samples and also serve as an example for things such as machine gun belts or certain animations. In turn, modders could use these parts on their own creations be it for 3rd Party DLC or mods.

[M. Glade 524]

31 minutes ago, x3kj said:

Expecting to make a living is an optimistic gamble. Although BIS haven't given contract details, this is not creators club where Bethesda pays you to make something. You make it and you get a cut when it sells.

 

Lol, obviously they'll be taking a fat commission. But if your DLC makes the cut, money is there, they're only looking for stuff that'll SELL. 

 

You better be committed to making it your primary focus and think of it as making it a living. 

[armored_sheep 56]

On 9. 11. 2017 at 12:55 AM, x3kj said:

And what about source code modifications?

Not now.

[armored_sheep 56]

22 hours ago, eh chaser said:

What kind of DLC is possible, i think the question was asked before but i don´t see any answer yet.

Depends on 3rd party producer. We are open to suggestions. BI is offering just a publisher role here.

[eh chaser 285]

2 hours ago, armored_sheep said:

Depends on 3rd party producer. We are open to suggestions. BI is offering just a publisher role here.

 

Thanks, but what is with the other part of the question. Any more on regulations regarding terrains for example?

 

 

[Ezcoo 47]

What content should DLC include? Is a pure gamemode (ie. mission) enough for DLC (given that it's high quality enough) or does the DLC have to include assets as well?

 

And yeah, I'm definitely up to contributing to an RPG (not Life) DLC. It's something that might not be appreciated here, but I think it should be up to players to decide what they want to play. Free market FTW

[Belbo 461]

8 minutes ago, ezcoo said:

What content should DLC include? Is a pure gamemode (ie. mission) enough for DLC (given that it's high quality enough) or does the DLC have to include assets as well?

Given the recent precedence, I guess that a couple of missions can make up a paid DLC.

[Wiki 1558]

21 minutes ago, Belbo said:

Given the recent precedence, I guess that a couple of missions can make up a paid DLC.

 

After all, Tac-Ops DLC is only missions ^^

[lexx 1331]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure it's not in the sense of your usual workshop submission. It's where Bethesda and Co. failed with their Creation Club thingy.. they tried to sell shit for (comparatively) big money and that's a bad recipe, as could be seen by the following review bombings. Heck, probably nobody would have cared if their first Creation Club submissions would have been some bigger quest addon or similar. So yeah, all eyes on the first thing that BI will release this way (if any at all, tho).

 

Right now it's all just speculations anyway. Who knows, maybe there won't be that much anyway. Just look at the MANW contest and how little of that has been finished in the end. Also BI wrote that a playable prototype is required:

Quote

which should already include a working in-game prototype delivered as an Arma 3 mod

Which probably limits the amount submissions even more in the first place. Having big ideas and getting big ideas done aren't the same thing. :>

[Ezcoo 47]

6 minutes ago, lexx said:

Which probably limits the amount submissions even more in the first place. Having big ideas and getting big ideas done aren't the same thing. :>

 

 

Yes, that's why I've learned to make things simple, but so that you make those simple things excellent.

[Wiki 1558]

35 minutes ago, lexx said:

Just look at the MANW contest and how little of that has been finished in the end.

 

Well:

• RHS is a full mode with constant updates
• The F/A-18X Black Wasp led the creators to create their own studio and then led to Jet DLC
• Resist --> Kydoimos now works for BiS

Not so bad all in all ^^

[lexx 1331]

That's the winners. Look at the other entries. :p