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oukej

Targeting improvements

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Let's remove from Arma magnification sights because it "takes away the skill of learning to aim".

Adapt the game mode to realism, not the other way around. Jeez.

Your analogy here is flawed, a comparable issue would be if BI added CCIP to a sniper or scope.

And where is the issue with adding an option to disable a feature that may have an effect on multiplayer balance?

 

Sigh... KOTH was always an absolute nightmare of a grindfest with jets raping everyone and overall awful balance. It tries to be Battlefield, except it's really bad at it.

 

I'ld very worried if BIS started being concerned with muh skill and balance in KOTH rather than improving on overall realism and developing authentic weapon systems for aircrafts and armored vehicles.

They still should acknowledge the concerns of KoTH as it is one of the biggest communities in ArmA 3. 

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In what sense? Is it the CCIP or the targeting pod that you think is breaking the balance?

Atm I'd like to not make any promises as we're changing parts of the system. Work which will hopefully introduce more variety and much better possibilities to balance the assets.

 

For gamemodes that have PVP jet combat, the CCIP crosshair makes jet combat INCREDIBLY EASY. Like in King of the hill, before this feature was added, it took time to learn how to be good in a jet and how the cannon works and where to shoot. Now anybody can jump into a jet and know right away where to shoot without any practice. It should atleast be a difficulty option to disable to for servers. Also now that you can lock onto any vehicle while the jet cannon is selected, it is easy to track a jet when in combat. Before that it took skill an awareness to track your enemy and get in the right position to shoot them. Jets should be the hardest vehicles to use in this game and now they are easier to use than a Strider HMG because that doesn't have a CCIP crosshair. I hope bohemia can think about what this new CCIP feature does to jet PVP and consider thinking of a way to balance it out either through a difficulty option to disable it or another option. Thank you

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a comparable issue would be if BI added CCIP to a sniper or scope.

One can say a jet is a damn expensive advanced piece of engineering. With a sniper rifle you need to measure the distance and adjust zeroing accordingly. CCIP does it for you, real-time. At the same time when flying a jet you need to focus on many other things and learn them. That balances it out a bit. Nevertheless a jet should be a powerful asset. And I think that's well reflected by the KotH economy.

Adding some kind of option to remove CCIP (or any other small feature bound to only some of the vehicles) on a scenario basis is tricky. How would you communicate to the players that here you have a jet with CCIP and there it is exactly the same jet, same weapons without it? Wouldn't it be perceived as a bug? #blameBI

Without any supportive system this could make the game just less transparent imo. I don't believe that adding options for everything is a silver bullet. Perhaps there are other solutions - maneuverability, stability, speed, vulnerability, weapons, sensors... Maybe the jet needs a higher price tag... #blameSamatra ;)

Anyway I'd wait a while before jumping on a solution. We may soon(ish) be breaking all-the-balances and turning them upside down.

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Some aspects of targeting and radar abilities are just way too strong in the game to be fun and challenging in this game.

 

Vs AI it doesn't matter as they dont complain and most people like easy killing of AI. However in PvP it does matter - in fact it matters most for new and average players

as they dont understand the mechanics and take the brunt being on the receiving end - without options or scripting PvP mission makers just (have to) remove those system

to maintain an enjoyable gaming experience to all players. Was done since OFP and continues to be done until BI addresses this properly.

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Some aspects of targeting and radar abilities are just way too strong in the game to be fun and challenging in this game.

 

Vs AI it doesn't matter as they dont complain and most people like easy killing of AI. However in PvP it does matter - in fact it matters most for new and average players

as they dont understand the mechanics and take the brunt being on the receiving end - without options or scripting PvP mission makers just (have to) remove those system

to maintain an enjoyable gaming experience to all players. Was done since OFP and continues to be done until BI addresses this properly.

Problem is it cannot be disabled as of now. I admit that the feature is awesome in most aspects but it totally ruins the fun of jet PvP

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As of CCIP i think it should be integrated into vehicle HUD (into displays). Right now when (for example) we ar eplaying with friend totally without HUD, crosshairs, in very hardcore game mode, there is allways CCIP. We cannot get rid of it. This dont look good, dont work good, as i need to aim it allways further than target is.

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One can say a jet is a damn expensive advanced piece of engineering. With a sniper rifle you need to measure the distance and adjust zeroing accordingly. CCIP does it for you, real-time. At the same time when flying a jet you need to focus on many other things and learn them. That balances it out a bit. Nevertheless a jet should be a powerful asset. And I think that's well reflected by the KotH economy.

Adding some kind of option to remove CCIP (or any other small feature bound to only some of the vehicles) on a scenario basis is tricky. How would you communicate to the players that here you have a jet with CCIP and there it is exactly the same jet, same weapons without it? Wouldn't it be perceived as a bug? #blameBI

Without any supportive system this could make the game just less transparent imo. I don't believe that adding options for everything is a silver bullet. Perhaps there are other solutions - maneuverability, stability, speed, vulnerability, weapons, sensors... Maybe the jet needs a higher price tag... #blameSamatra ;)

Anyway I'd wait a while before jumping on a solution. We may soon(ish) be breaking all-the-balances and turning them upside down.

i agree with what Sensei is saying, The jet targeting pods should be an option because for game-modes like King of the Hill which houses a large amount of the ArmA 3 Population it is extremely inbalanced.

i myself a veteran player have barely played since the update after 3k+ hours due to it.

Please do what you can to make it an option, Cheers and have a good one.

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As of CCIP i think it should be integrated into vehicle HUD (into displays). Right now when (for example) we ar eplaying with friend totally without HUD, crosshairs, in very hardcore game mode, there is allways CCIP. We cannot get rid of it. This dont look good, dont work good, as i need to aim it allways further than target is.

 

Sure the current implementation isn't ideal at all. After all these years, ACE2 still beats Arma3 hands down when it comes to realistically portray fire-control systems without even making the game any more complicated to handle.

 

But still people with the patience to grind long enough to use jets have always been indulging in raping the whole map on KOTH, and more so because jets are rightfully very powerful rather than any sort of hard earned skill.

 

Wouldn't it be KOTH's devs responsability to better design their mission rather than Bohemia to always wonder what effect every single change might have on that particular gamemode?

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Sure the current implementation isn't ideal at all. After all these years, ACE2 still beats Arma3 hands down when it comes to realistically portray fire-control systems without even making the game any more complicated to handle.

 

But still people with the patience to grind long enough to use jets have always been indulging in raping the whole map on KOTH, and more so because jets are rightfully very powerful rather than any sort of hard earned skill.

 

Wouldn't it be KOTH's devs responsability to better design their mission rather than Bohemia to always wonder what effect every single change might have on that particular gamemode?

No offense but I don't think you have played enough KoTH to have any idea about the gameplay prior to CCIP. Sure there were jet pilots that could do well but "raping the whole map" is without a doubt, an over-exaggeration.

Furthermore the KoTH devs can and always have worked on balancing the gamemode, however they cannot disable CCIP as of now which is why it would be helpful to leave an on/off option for server owners.

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Honestly I have not played koth in awhile. But is it not possible For now king of the hill does its own balancing act. via in game pricing? jets cost more, and make Aa vehicles cost less /stingers cost less. I mean the Aa tanks die with an rpg hit so they are cannon fodder . I know the severside option would be obviously better suited in an ideal situation . If someone purchased an overpowered asset In this case the A10 have an air raid siren go off..so People change their loadout /purchase strategy

it has been pointed out that a big overhaul of the radar/ whole flight systems /knock on to Ai/ is now a priority. And I think that is fair enough.

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When BI doesn't provide the tools (aka scripting cmds or difficulty options) you cannot "balance" as mission designer (aside from

weapon/magazine removal or not using attack planes/choppers/tanks at all - which is what most times PvP leagues, events and game modes have done and are still doing).

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I play KOTH often, and don't ever run into problems with dis-balance. The only time I find myself complaining about something is when Imy too lazy to bring out the proper countermeasure, to solve that problem. End result, it's my fault I'm doing something else and die to a jet, when I have AA available. I see everyone with AA when I play, and the skies are generally clear because of it. As the Devil stated though, jets and tanks and such are all high quality expensive war assets. Enemy players are spending their large sums of money to use them, and as such, if they're kicking arse, they deserve to. There's nearly 30 people per team, so if your getting destroyed by Jets, it's your teams fault.

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No offense but I don't think you have played enough KoTH to have any idea about the gameplay prior to CCIP. Sure there were jet pilots that could do well but "raping the whole map" is without a doubt, an over-exaggeration.

Furthermore the KoTH devs can and always have worked on balancing the gamemode, however they cannot disable CCIP as of now which is why it would be helpful to leave an on/off option for server owners.

 

I've played it since the very beginning, had access to wipeout at some point, lost my progression three times because of formats and not bothering saving my profiles. I still play it now and then but nevermind this is not a discussion worth having..

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As of CCIP i think it should be integrated into vehicle HUD (into displays). Right now when (for example) we ar eplaying with friend totally without HUD, crosshairs, in very hardcore game mode, there is allways CCIP. We cannot get rid of it. This dont look good, dont work good, as i need to aim it allways further than target is.

Yes, diegetic displays really need to be worked on. I like the new CCIP, but it definitely shouldn't look like a gamey "crosshair" it is now. It should be, along with many other things a part of the actual aircraft HUD (or HMD, in more advanced ones).

 

I hope that this DLC will add some options regarding that. The ability to disable speed-dependent FOV (and to better adjust FOV in vehicles in general) would be great, as would fully diegetic weapon, radar and flight displays, both for jets and helos. It should be possible to play without any non-diegetic HUD elements.

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Is it fun if gameplay revolves around the air and anti-air?

Exactly, it has gotten to a point where communities have set up no jet servers, this was not necessary before apex and a vehicle class shouldn't be excluded due to a lack of options from BI...

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Is it fun if gameplay revolves around the air and anti-air?

Doesn't revolve around that. It just so happens it's popular and there are players who have the funds to afford the assets. But it's not very hard to deplete those assets if the enemy has them in numbers, as long as your team reacts accordingly and adapts to the threat, as expected in combat. Same with tanks, which I personally see way more of then jets. But I'm not going to complain about constant tank bombardment and how it's OP. Simply change up the tactics. If that doesn't work for you, they always have Infantry only servers.

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If you hate lead computing, which every modern jet can do, you should go to play a WW2 game. But even P-51D was equipped with a lead computer. I don't understand why so many players have such a strong aversion towards lead computing. I don't have a single problem with it. In 8 out of 10 engagements, my opponent doesn't even have a chance to fire.

What should really be done about lead computing is to make the lead indicator displayed on the HUD, not in the 3D world as well as to replace the ring, line and cross with a dynamic calculated reticle. Pilots need to maneuver the aircraft to put the reticle on the target in order to score a hit. Current configuration is unrealistic and way requies no skill.

Sent from my L50t using Tapatalk

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Doesn't revolve around that. It just so happens it's popular and there are players who have the funds to afford the assets. But it's not very hard to deplete those assets if the enemy has them in numbers, as long as your team reacts accordingly and adapts to the threat, as expected in combat. Same with tanks, which I personally see way more of then jets. But I'm not going to complain about constant tank bombardment and how it's OP. Simply change up the tactics. If that doesn't work for you, they always have Infantry only servers.

Deplete this Bank - http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/437238244773504588/BB32F19580B3787642093BF4CECA0C1CAB8B17C0/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|2048:864&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C2048%3A864&background-color=black

also if you have ever flown in a jet prior to the CCIP and were good with it you would see this as a kick in the dick, if you prefer the CCIP it's because you were a trash pilot before the update.

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If you hate lead computing, which every modern jet can do, you should go to play a WW2 game. But even P-51D was equipped with a lead computer. I don't understand why so many players have such a strong aversion towards lead computing. I don't have a single problem with it. In 8 out of 10 engagements, my opponent doesn't even have a chance to fire.

What should really be done about lead computing is to make the lead indicator displayed on the HUD, not in the 3D world as well as to replace the ring, line and cross with a dynamic calculated reticle. Pilots need to maneuver the aircraft to put the reticle on the target in order to score a hit. Current configuration is unrealistic and way requies no skill.

Sent from my L50t using Tapatalk

The problem with it is that it makes stacking much stronger on KoTH which was already a problem.

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The problem with it is that it makes stacking much stronger on KoTH which was already a problem.

Stacking is caused by the way the air radar works. Currently IFF is done by finding which faction the vehicles belong to. For example, if a Blufor player flies a Wipeout, on his radar, a Wipeout flown by either an Opfor or Indie player will show up as a green triangle. It will only turn red after they are within 1km from each other.

IMO, Blufor should be removed from KOTH because majority of vehicles belong to Blufor. It is an extremely unfair game for Blufor.

Sent from my L50t using Tapatalk

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Stacking is caused by the way the air radar works. Currently IFF is done by finding which faction the vehicles belong to. For example, if a Blufor player flies a Wipeout, on his radar, a Wipeout flown by either an Opfor or Indie player will show up as a green triangle. It will only turn red after they are within 1km from each other.

IMO, Blufor should be removed from KOTH because majority of vehicles belong to Blufor. It is an extremely unfair game for Blufor.

Sent from my L50t using Tapatalk

Yes that is how stacking works, for the most part. However I was referring to the effectiveness of stacking. If a team has 5+ jets all camping a spawn with perfect aim due to the CCIP that defending team is pretty screwed...

Don't think that I hate jets either, I enjoy them but found it much more fun before they added the magic circle.

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why so many players have such a strong aversion towards lead computing

 

As its boring, unskilled, one-side gameplay. Trashing AI might be fun (for some), yet in PvP you have humans on the other hand that don't appreciate that.

 

The other reason is BI is both unwilling and unable to commit enough time to make these systems realistic and challenging enough.

So either they have to provide an option to disable systems altogether, or give the community the ability to tweak them (mainly scripting and to a lesser extent configs).

 

Otherwise mission designers just remove/dont use these assets as the players feedback is telling them its not a fun nor challenging experience.

 

Easy to learn, hard to master.

 

This should be the goal, yet so far it has always been: Hard to understand, easy to master and to abuse.

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> why so many players have such a strong aversion towards lead computing

As its boring, unskilled, one-side gameplay. Trashing AI might be fun (for some), yet in PvP you have humans on the other hand that don't appreciate that.

The other reason is BI is both unwilling and unable to commit enough time to make these systems realistic and challenging enough.

So either they have to provide an option to disable systems altogether, or give the community the ability to tweak them (mainly scripting and to a lesser extent configs).

Otherwise mission designers just remove/dont use these assets as the players feedback is telling them its not a fun nor challenging experience.

Easy to learn, hard to master.

This should be the goal, yet so far it has always been: Hard to understand, easy to master and to abuse.

Yes. Current targeting system is not realistic. But in no way completely removing it will make air combat more realistic.

Sent from my L50t using Tapatalk

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