ai command dlc C2 -Command And Control

[Vasily.B 529]

everyone knows about  bug with drunken heli pilots at high altitudes.

today I  found that this bug does not apply to some RHS helicopters...

exmple Mi-8MT at 1200m

https://youtu.be/g5ZkkIUyck8?t=50

edit; 

 

it works with every heli in arma3 and mods,  but only if you set default Move waypoint in editor and then play your scenario...

Arma bug, acknowledged if im not mistaken, but not fixed, and propably frozen till 2018 :)

[mad_cheese 592]

yeah... unfortunately the 'fix' that i thought i found does not work after all (increasing height in steps of 100m slowly). In the coming version, flyinheight is limited to 500m, thats what all choppers can handle and at least it's somewhat high.
 
@Sammael, if you want to investigate into why those RHS choppers can handle the heights, please do!
 
 

it works with every heli in arma3 and mods,  but only if you set default Move waypoint in editor and then play your scenario...

that's extremely interesting. did you try spawned waypoints? should work too I suppose
 

Arma bug, acknowledged if im not mistaken, but not fixed, and propably frozen till 2018 :)

I don't think so. Lately there's been so much improvement in the AI Nav department, I don't see why it would not at least be on the table. But don't forget that prolly 99% of people who play arma will try and drive a car at some point.. I guess maybe 2% or less will ever want to see a chopper fly at realistic altitudes. Out of those 2% I guess we guys that post in this thread make up a significant percentage lol. So yup, there's that :)

[sammael 366]

 

that's extremely interesting. did you try spawned waypoints? should work too I suppose

 

it seems this bug present only when spawn  waypoint  ( in real time ) when playing game. Waypoints set before the game work at any altitude (1000/5000 etc).

Will make some tests today. but 

I hope BI will fix it.

Looking forward to your  C2 new version :wub: 

[mad_cheese 592]

it seems this bug present only when spawn  waypoint  ( in real time ) when playing game. Waypoints set before the game work at any altitude (1000/5000 etc).

Will make some tests today. but 

I hope BI will fix it.

Looking forward to your  C2 new version :wub: 

 

Sent u the beta.

 

Keep on testing. @You and Vasily, you guys need to be aware that it's in your hands to gather intel on these issues and then be politely persistent about them towards BIS :) If you do that for years, at least you will be cosidered I think. This is an extremely niche, although 100% reasonable request. 

 

Then again, if you find any exploit within Arma to make choppers be on their best behaviour > 500m, then I'm super happy to work this in immediately :)

 

I was hoping that spawned WP's would work just as editor placed ones. That way at least there would be hope as one day, planning mode will have all these chopper WP's available on HC level too. We could at least then have HC-choppers perform at these altitudes. But hey, you never know, try everything. Play with the group behaviour / combatmode. Set it to 'Careless' see if that makes a difference. Disable and enableAI stuff, the range of parameters at this point is pretty vast. See if it makes a difference if the pilot is or is not in your group.

 

If there's one way to have AI fly choppers that high, which apparently there is... I say there's at least the chance of you finding an exploit. That's basically how to make AI do stuff lmao. If only you guys knew some of things that are done within the addon, it's hilarious. There's a German saying amongst handymen that goes "What doesn't fit will be fitted" - if that makes any sense.

[sammael 366]

Make+30 tests.

there is one "exploit"

heli normal move (altitude<500) only  to First waypoint if you put only one waypoint in editor mode  and heli starting position is looking at this (first and one) waypoint :D

I think this can finish discussing about helicopters)

[sharpie7051 18]

love the mod, I would sure appreciate access to the beta  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

[mad_cheese 592]

pm sent :)

[_Recon1910_ 0]

It's works with CFS?

[mad_cheese 592]

It worked for me in the beginning, but now I end up with unresponsive units a lot. It's strange because I did not update CFS in the meantime.

You could do me a favor by testing and informing me about any clash u find

[karatekid 10]

Hey!

Is there any news about the AI finally grew up and can clear a house alone topic? :) It's interests me a lot.

And my other question is that is there any solution to stack up my guys into a sticky a 'room clearing' column behind me? I tried multiple time to order them in column, stand up position, but when i enter a building, either they simply do not follow me and they start to wander around a building, or came in later, and it's very annoying. The R6 Raven Shield or the Swat 4 did it absolutely good..

[mad_cheese 592]

On 19/12/2016 at 1:35 AM, karatekid said:

Hey!

Is there any news about the AI finally grew up and can clear a house alone topic? :) It's interests me a lot.

And my other question is that is there any solution to stack up my guys into a sticky a 'room clearing' column behind me? I tried multiple time to order them in column, stand up position, but when i enter a building, either they simply do not follow me and they start to wander around a building, or came in later, and it's very annoying. The R6 Raven Shield or the Swat 4 did it absolutely good..

 

Hey, there's some heavy limitations in some ways of course, since Arma is not Rainbow Six :) I try to use and exploit Arma's pro's and cons but it can only go so far.

 

For example: C2 can stack up units well around individual objects. A wall however may be composed of many objects so the snapping results may seem weird because you think you are stacking up on a fence, when in reality the object you're looking at is just a pillar of a fence. Next, stacking up on doors. The APEX trailer and campaign teaser have created the illusion that AI is now comfortable around buildings. Well, it's not. While I can, with LOTS of work, detect the positions where the units should stack up.. it doesn't matter because the AI is guided through the building on invisible rails called "path lods". Those are about as basic as you can imagine, it's really like you had a line going through your house and you can only walk on that line. So we have AI who can't reach the door-position where they would use the stack/clear animations that were intended for cutscenes, not gameplay.

 

So basically the AI "growing up" would mean that BIS overhauls the entire building path lod system. I am a true optimist but that's just not going to happen since for the needs of the game the AI handles buildings very well :D

 

You have to know the quirks of the game to get it to work well. The reasons why other games do it so well... it's simply because the whole game is about just those features, where A3 is more about everything.  The indoors and urban warfare is more of a PVP/Zeus thing, where the human player can create immersion that the AI usually can not (sometimes it does). My house-clearing is shit if u compare it to Rainbow Six, but just having something in A3 works for me.

 

PS: the best way to clear a building is to send only one unit and be the 2nd guy yourself. You just follow the guy in a standing position (he is crouched) and cover him as he opens doors and walks around the corners.

[DEV614 33]

Would love to test out any new features you got going on in the beta! PMs always open, chief.  

[mad_cheese 592]

On 22/12/2016 at 4:53 AM, DEV614 said:

Would love to test out any new features you got going on in the beta! PMs always open, chief.  

 

You got it!

 

For anyone interested, as sort of a WIP report, here's the current changelog of the 2.0beta compared to the current release:

 

Spoiler

• ADDED: MAP-PLANNING.
  • Planning Mode capabilities added to main map-display (Toggle overlay with "C"-Key)
  • New overlay is a more compact and powerful version of Planning Mode
  • Planning Mode now has the same Unit Selectors as the radial menu (displaying teamColor and name)
    • buttons also have same SHIFT- and CTRL functionality for faster selections
• ADDED: SUPPRESSION ZONE SYSTEM
  • Suppression is now treated and displayed as a polygon which can handle large areas
  • Suppression Zone is displayed on map, similar to VBS Tactics.
  • Polygons/Zones assigned by planning mode can be resized
    • Hold CTRL, click on main zone-marker, then drag mouse.(WIP but working).
• ADDED: DRAW SUPPRESSION ZONE:
  • New temporary HUD-display with VBS-style Suppression Zone Selection (default: SHIFT + T)
  • Drag LMB over Screen to create zone
  • Old Suppression (target object) can still be used and creates a 5-10m suppression area. Use this to suppress 'snapped positions' such as windows for example.
• ADDED: C2-HC: WAYPOINT ACTIONS.
  • Available so far: Suppression, Ambush. Coming Soon: Defend, Plant, Throw
  • Right click on HC-waypoint and select options for the waypoint and the waypoint action
  • waypoint action is a script plus an inserted waypoint that waits for the action/condition to be fulfilled
  • Conditions to complete Actions: Timeout, GoCodes, DayTime (within 30min for ambushes etc)
• ADDED: New Right Click Context menu for HC waypoints to configure conditions/formations for waypoints and their actions
• ADDED: HC-Map Select: Right click on groupIcon switches to HC page and selects group
  •  
• ADDED: Smart-Pages added to planning mode
  • no more need to switch between Ground and AIR pages, C2 does it for you as you select units
    • Non suitable- / cargo units are still greyed out
  • HC-groups can be quick selected with rightClick on groupIcon
    • with BIS-HC, select with leftClick
• ADDED: C2-PlugIn for AIC/Advanced AI COMMAND (by DUDA123)
  • waypoints can issued through main map-planning overlay's HC page
  • HC-quick-select compatible (right click on AIC group icon)
  • HC-WP-Menu compatible (right click on AIC wp-icon)
  • HC-WP-Actions-compatible
  • C2-Overlay is hidden while AIC-commandingMenu is open to preserve MMB functionality
• ADDED: Assign/Unassign NVGoggles added to radial menu
  • (Items >> IR_LASER >> Assign NVG: Shift + lClick || Unassign NVG: Shift + rClick)
• ADDED: Keybind-Alternative to send units to HUD-indicator positions (binds customizable)
  • Regular: Spacebar
  • FWD Peel: Ctrl + Spacebar
  • BWD Peel: Alt + Spacebar
• TWEAKED: Planning Tablet discontinued for now. Keeping it around for future usage with drones. Also as backup in case a mission removes the map's DRAW-handlers. Some new functionality may be missing in tablet.
• TWEAKED: FIND COVER function drastically improved. Units also only change position if they have to if they have to.
  • selected units distribute suitable array of cover positions
  • hard cover is preferred, but if only concealment is found it will be selected
  • script checks for soft and hard cover in increments of 15m
• TWEAKED: Planning mode: wp combatmode
  • Red icon: default/engage
  • Blue icon: disengage/at all cost
    • unit will follow the waypoint regardless of personal safety
• TWEAKED: MapDrawing Setup was entirely re-written in a better format, fixing countless potential errors and opening up massive possibilities for the future
• TWEAKED: UnitMarkers are now displayed in the unit's assigned TeamColor for better overview and to encourage usage of teamcolors
• TWEAKED: C2 suppression system removed, instead the new BIS-suppression is put into a powerful framework.
  • Using custom invisible targets instead of BIS-targets allows for targeting elevated positions (windows, balconies etc)
• TWEAKED: Suppression Targeting improved
• TWEAKED: Highest Heli Altitude is now 500m because the AI can not handle anything above in most cases
• TWEAKED: Additional voice-commands removed since they most likely do not match the right voice or even language.
• TWEAKED: REFRESH Function now also restores keybinds that were deleted by mission-designer.
• TWEAKED: HC-groups still keep their name, but their button gets a tag (RS: Reserve / disbanded groups. HC: HighCommand)
• TWEAKED: All planning pages can be accesed by key (1-3)
• FIXED: Setting individual combatmodes (Fire on my lead) was also changing the unit's Formation-Index.
• FIXED: "regular" HighCommand Groups could not be joined to the player/commander's squad.
• FIXED: Vehicle boarding through radial menu was blocked by dead crew-units
• FIXED: Player can no longer order units to board enemy vehicles (which would not work and end up with killed units)
• FIXED: Switching PlanningMode-Pages no longer clashes with entering numbers with "1" or "2" in the Spacing- and Timeout-Box
• FIXED: Error when unit reached last waypoint while player was extending the session

 

I am really happy with where this is going. Thanks and big ShoutOut to Bad Benson and DUDA once again.

[mad_cheese 592]

Hello my name is Mad_Cheese, I am really bad at using forums so I made a double post.

[old_painless 182]

Wow, Mad_Cheese, that is some changelog, you are almost putting VBS out of business

[taro8 806]

Suggestion/request: could we get a generic "assault" command? I just want to select my team, click on the map and tell them to assault the position I pointed at, then the AI should do its stuff without me babying them all the time. Like: units get into vehicles drive to the indicated position, disembark at safe distance then go in aware and, when close, switch to combat mode until they reach the position, eliminate all opposition/sweep the area and decide its clear.

 

Also will be able to save plan without executing it? Say I want to assault a complex from helo insertion, in base I split the teams, assign them their targets, set up go-codes etc. then I manually order them into helicopters, fly into the operation area, tell them to disembark and THEN hit execute the plan button.

[mad_cheese 592]

edit: the generic assault waypoint (BIS default waypoint) is coming to HC-modes but for group level the variables in an assault are too many to create a bundle that goes above "move + ROE" :)

[kremator 1064]

I like all of Taro8 suggestions but think that it would be too difficult to pull off !

 

I would LOVE to see however integration in GAIA (from spirit6).  I think THIS would help with what Taro8 is after.

[froggyluv 2130]

MChristmas Cheese!

 

 I really like the Clear House function even tho it doesnt always work due to the engine level AI's trouble with orientation. That being, nothing is really more important in a firefight (besides ammo) then getting 1st orientation on the enemy yet for some bizarre reason AI in Arma kind of rotate all over the place even when their is only 1 known threat which they should stay keyed on. *rant over :D

 

 Is there a way to have the infantry check street level windows before breaching when clearing house?

[Valken 621]

I'm reading the current changelog of the beta and sounds great. I don't us HC so may need to see a tutorial about it.

 

I am interested in the suppression because I do use it with my squad (need to rebind it since it interferes with Launcher lock ons) and TPWCAS Suppression mod.

 

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=19467

 

From what you are saying usine the NEW BIS Suppression framework, we don't need TPW Suppression mod anymore? Because that mod also affects AIs (they actually get down and duck for cover instead of standing there becoming a bullet sandwich).

 

Can someone test this and see if TPW suppression is no longer needed as well?

 

 

 

[mad_cheese 592]

On 29. Dezember 2016 at 6:10 PM, kremator said:

I like all of Taro8 suggestions but think that it would be too difficult to pull off !

 

I would LOVE to see however integration in GAIA (from spirit6).  I think THIS would help with what Taro8 is after.

oh it's a great suggestion for sure! At the moment tho i'm aiming for less 'specific' routines tho. The GAIA thing could bridge the gap here, not sure how it works with a player controlled group but for HC it could work if the framework is accessible.

 

 

On 29. Dezember 2016 at 9:44 PM, froggyluv said:

Christmas Cheese!

 

 I really like the Clear House function even tho it doesnt always work due to the engine level AI's trouble with orientation. That being, nothing is really more important in a firefight (besides ammo) then getting 1st orientation on the enemy yet for some bizarre reason AI in Arma kind of rotate all over the place even when their is only 1 known threat which they should stay keyed on. *rant over :D

 

 Is there a way to have the infantry check street level windows before breaching when clearing house?

In all honesty there's some weird thing in there. it's indeed because the engine does not carry those capabilities really. I'll apply some more small cheating but unless BIS gets a kick out of this and puts a focus on house to house warfare, this is the best I can offer. The level checks already happen in a way. 

 

On 30. Dezember 2016 at 11:02 AM, Valken said:

I'm reading the current changelog of the beta and sounds great. I don't us HC so may need to see a tutorial about it.

 

I am interested in the suppression because I do use it with my squad (need to rebind it since it interferes with Launcher lock ons) and TPWCAS Suppression mod.

 

From what you are saying usine the NEW BIS Suppression framework, we don't need TPW Suppression mod anymore? Because that mod also affects AIs (they actually get down and duck for cover instead of standing there becoming a bullet sandwich).

 TPW suppression simulates 'suppressed units', not 'suppressing' units, so no problem. I mean, unless I'm wrong :) But I think that's what it was for. I remember TPW mentioning that BIS own new command structure made his suppression obsolete, but he meant getSuppression, compared to commandSuppressiveFire. What I meant in the changelog is that I got rid of my own system to make units fire at a position vs a object. BIS new commands seem to work similar to my old function, which was itself inspired by the awesome SAMO mod. Instead of tweaking my system, I combined the strong points of both systems. My system did not work on heli-guns. BIS system could only target ground level positions. Now you have em all, hopefully.

 

As for HC - no need for a tutorial really. I recommend using DUDA123's 'Advanced AI Command' - it's self explanatory and the next version of C2 works as a nice plugin/bridge. Of course this whole HC idea is designed with certain gameModes (SP, Warfare etc) but it can be IMMENSE to have control over a supporting but separate group who will be able to cover you, suppress a position as your group advances etc.

 

Happy new year to everybody! Especially BIS if anyone's reading this, thanks for all the continuous efforts you're all amazing :)

[kremator 1064]

Happy New Year mate!  What a great 2016 for you..... cannot wait to see what you have in store for 2017 !

 

GAIA doesn't work with player groups AFAIK however it should work perfectly with HC.

[alezil 12]

First, Happy New Year!
Second, Thanks for the hardwork!

If i may, i have little Suggestion:

I was testing the latest released version of C2 and noticed something interesting about the standard AI commands of the Vanilla game. If you select a few units or a team and press "1" the following options appear:

 

2.Advance

3.Stay back

4.Flank left.

5. Flank Right

 

The name kind of fails to describe what actions actually do. All these options send the chosen team forward 25 meters in the indicated direction, and they keep the distance to the player, moving parallel to him when he advances.

 

So if you have a 2x left flank unit, the unit will distance itself 50 meters to the player's left, and advance parallel to it when he moves. You can send the blue team to the left, red to the right and use the "advance" option for double envelopment against the enemy position. 

 

These commands are very useful, the problem is that the clumsy controls of the game + the need for repetition to make a manoeuvre work, making impractical to use them in an intuitive way. 

Do you think it would be worthwhile to include these commands in the radial menu? 

And if possible create a shortcut for the command on Up, Down, Left, and Right arrow keys on the keyboard? What in the case of infantry control are redundant functions with W, S, A, D?

 

Sorry for the bad english,
And again, thanks for the hardwork!

[mad_cheese 592]

Hey alezil,

 

yeah! these "formation modifier" commands are among my favorites from the vanilla controls too. Very confusing names indeed but powerful functionality - however I was never able to recreate these functione through script - it's the last JEDI that I was not able to replace. This is just a theory, but I think that there's certain commands that are only available on engine level. While you do have a lot of doSomething/commandSomething commands available, there's do doFlankLeft or commandFlankLeft etc. So, unless I am overseeing something, I would be forced to write that entire functionality as I had to do with units boarding vehicles etc - it's out of proportion in this case unfortunately, that's a very complex function imo.

 

I did consider that at some point, writing my own, but then found out about Igitur's "CFS - CUSTOM FORMATION SYSTEM" which lets you create specific formations like that. I had a clash with C2 that I wanted to contact the author about, but anyways that addon should be right up your alley!

 

But hey, if anyone knows how to get these flank/advance/fall back things into a script that does not involve constant doMove/moveTo to calculated positions relative to the player, then I'm ready to squeeze it in there asap!

[alezil 12]

Thanks for the reply.

Seems like all these functions that you can not map through keyboard options seem to suffer from it. What I saw other people doing was mapping these functions to voice commands.

In the absence of the possibility of including these functions, the C2 “Planning mode” does the job.

Little Feedback:

Leaving this aside, this new function used to “clear buildings” is excellent. In my tests Ai can handle herself very well.

I have tested some scenarios:  4 against 4, same firepower and VcomAi enabled. Without any interferences by my part.

I used "this disableAI" MOVE ";" In enemies or  "this disableAI" PATH”, and to make things more difficult, I placed the enemies guarding the doors and Bottleneck areas.

The enemy with "this disableAI" MOVE "; It's extremely deadly.  Still, my soldiers were able to be successful a very few times, which is a lot.

The enemy with "this disableAI" PATH ";" Is a little bit easier, but still lethal enough to decimate my soldiers most of the time.

The enemy with nothing of his capabilities turned off, is the easiest, with a high degree of success for my soldiers.  Looks like when the enemy AI is free, it tends to make more mistakes.

If I lower the enemy's firepower to simulate a police raid scenario, my soldiers show a much more satisfying result, except when I use the against the "this disableAI" MOVE " enemy:  where Ai remain deadly to the extreme.

 

Again, thanks for the hardwork!

And sorry for the bad English.