Is the reload indication... cheating?

[tortuosit 485]

Hi, I'm just wondering, because I never used weapons irl, if the reload indication in Arma can be considered as cheating? In real life, is a Soldier aware that no rounds are left? Does it depend on the weapon? Or does he typically only know that he has to reload, when he tries to shoot, but it just clicks?

In that case, more realism in Arma would mean "no reload indicator". Could it be turned off somehow?

[Westonsammy 1]

You know you need to reload when you pull the trigger and no bullet comes out, so no, its realistic

[tortuosit 485]

You know you need to reload when you pull the trigger and no bullet comes out, so no, its realistic

But in Arma you know it before pulling the trigger... So it's unrealistic?!? Do you mean unrealistic?

[prykpryk 11]

In some guns action stays back if there is no round left, but I think mostly in pistols. And we have bigger issues than that, to be honest.

[Brisse 78]

From my own experience I can say that it is an individual thing. Weapons that lock open on the last shot (most modern assault rifle's and pistols do this) is pretty easy becouse you can feel when it locks open becouse the recoil and sound is slightly different but it is a subtle effect and not every soldier will notice it, especially in a stressful situation so they pull the trigger and get just a click, then they know they need to reload. Some will even try to count their shots, but it's easy to forget when the shit hits the fan.

I don't consider the reload indicator unrealistic. The game lacks the physical and audible feedback when the mag goes empty, so it adds the indicator instead.

Edit: Something that is unrealistic on the other hand, is that if you keep clicking your trigger button in Arma you keep getting the click sound every time. IRL it will only click once, then the trigger will stay in the pulled position until you release the bolt.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Brisse

[tortuosit 485]

In some guns action stays back if there is no round left, but I think mostly in pistols. And we have bigger issues than that, to be honest.

Opening doors for instance :-) Yes, but my thoughts are If it is unrealistic, it may be possible to fix it via Mod.

[xx_fr0st-w0lf_xx 10]

ACE did it quite well in A2, you could have felt you mags weight and determine how many rounds were left and if you had to reload.

Oh how I miss you ACE.

[andersson 285]

I guess you are talking about that console icon at the center of the screen? I hate it. In OFP I had dry clicks now and then, but since armed assault and forward that centered icon pops up obstructing your view until you reload.

[katipo66 94]

All of those action icons feel too obtrusive to me, would be good to fade them out a bit or move them toward bottom or top centre, I don't feel like it's a real cheat or anything though.

[lugiahua 26]

Actually, most firearms that lock back don't have a "click" sound if trigger were pressed on empty magazine, since the hammer/striker are locked back as well.

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

Not really cheating, its just a more "gamey" way of telling you that you run out of bullets, just turn it all off via the options/difficulty.

To me if you want realism then everything in terms of the hud should be off, as there are other ways to do things without hud, if you think about it with all the indicators,

and other things that popup on the screen or on the screen while ingame, it would make you think that you should have a helmet on with a type of face on it as

with the open face helmet, i got to wonder how is it that a hud is even showing up?

Then too if i dont have a helmet on then where is this hud coming from, so the question is how "realistic" are you looking to make your game?

Ideally realism IMO, aka reality would be too turn it all off, and have an alt way to command AI through voice/radio, other actions such as calling

support like a CAS, strikes, heli pickup, ect,. would be done by radio, so then a radio interface?

Im thinking for a radio and most folks that use it know about acre, but using it to a more realistic level if you will would mean bringing up a radio or looking at the radio instead

of anything on the screen, nothing should be on the screen at all, everything should revolve around the physical character in the game.

So you see Arma games are a cross between gamey/sandbox realism. realism is just that, like done in the real world, that being everything is manual in their own respects.

It can be done in the game, jsut a matter of difficulty, scripting, mods, overall design and setup, and of course some research to see how its actually done,

so how far into realistic do you want to go?

[Smurf 12]

Not cheating, as everyone has it, but out of place in a game like this.

IMO, weight check like ACE\RO2 is the way to go.

Push "R" => Reload

Hold "R" and release => Mag check

Hold "R" and keep holding => For ammo type change.

More realistic, more tension, less action menu entries.

[lugiahua 26]

I think some HUDs indicators are reasonable...consider the game was set in 2035 and most soldiers wear HUD devices.

But I always turned off crosshair.

[lesscubes 1]

HUD elements are good because they convey things that you'd know by feel or perception in real life. Even crosshairs, to a degree. (You pick a gun up, you have a decent idea where the muzzle is, not enough to accurately shoot anything more than a few yards away, but an idea.)

If you empty a rifle with a bolt catch (So, Not an AK type or a Older HK or something) while shooting, you'd know from the recoil impulse that the gun was either empty or had a malfunction, even if you had lost count of what was in your magazine. Pistols tend to be a little more obvious.

So I like little indicators like that. I would rather the round count went away- the Red Orchestra/Rising Storm style ammo check is much better.

[Gunter Severloh 3948]

TBH im not playing the game for its time period and its futuristic "feel" preferably its another updated version of Arma with better engine/features/functions ect,

still Arma none the less but as per subject here having these HUD devices should only be reflected onscreen based on what you actually have, and as far as I see it

basic gear on you aside NVG, what else is there that would actually create a HUD, an eye piece?

What then if i dont have a helmet on but a boonie hat, and shades where then is this Hud coming from?

My normal uniform, loadout when I play, not trying to brag or show you anything, or make me special just trying to give a point

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=199768240

So for realism then I should just turn the hud off in the options for the way Im describing it.

As per the OP's original question, if you think about it his question makes sense in terms of where hes coming from with the game being realistic, answering it,

cheating I think is the wrong word for this, as you would say cheating if your in some mp mission on a server where other's do not have the hud reload indicator/icon

showing up for them but you do, so to me at least we could say in terms of realism if you had something that added a hud type indicator to your helmet, eyepiece what

have you in the real world to give you feedback that your out of bullets, then that to me would be something to assist you on the battlefield to help you survive,

and or have an advantage over the enemy maybe, would think it really depends on your gear, but ingame terms I think its all in how you want to play, hud no hud,

so overall i dont think its cheating unless everone else dont have what you have.

But cheating? Its war no such thing as cheating unless your in competition.

[Ronnie P 10]

In R/L you want to stop firing if there is still one round in the chamber, because then the action will not lock.

So, last round in the chamber, drop your empty mag, pop in a new one and continue firing. Shoot all bullets, the action will lock back, you need to change mags and then release the action which might take a few extra seconds.

To be honest, counting rounds and announcing the change is the professional way, I always blasted away like a moron and then had to change. Go figure.

[tortuosit 485]

Guys, no need for philosophy about HUD elements. Some of them are needed, e.g. I often forget which stance I am in (in 1st person).

"Cheating" was probably the wrong term, I rather meant realism.

When I asked the question, I had this situations in mind:

With HUD element: Player shoots, then out of ammo, reload indicator appears, go for cover, reload, shoot, enemy dead, profit.

Without HUD element: Player shoots, then out of ammo, "click" only, Player dead.

I think if all players had no reload indicator, it would add more spice. But really, this is not important. Will have a look if I can turn it off (wasn't aware it is possible in the game options) and how it plays then.

[semiconductor 309]

It seems that there is no way to turn that indication off, sadly.

[roshnak 41]

Guys, no need for philosophy about HUD elements. Some of them are needed, e.g. I often forget which stance I am in (in 1st person).

"Cheating" was probably the wrong term, I rather meant realism.

When I asked the question, I had this situations in mind:

With HUD element: Player shoots, then out of ammo, reload indicator appears, go for cover, reload, shoot, enemy dead, profit.

Without HUD element: Player shoots, then out of ammo, "click" only, Player dead.

I think if all players had no reload indicator, it would add more spice. But really, this is not important. Will have a look if I can turn it off (wasn't aware it is possible in the game options) and how it plays then.

First of all, your scenario relies on the assumption that the player has stopped firing on the last round in his or her magazine. The odds of this aren't super high unless the player is firing only one shot at a time. Shots are generally fired in groups of 2 to 3 quick consecutive shots, so there is a good chance that you will fire once or twice and then hear a click prompting you to reload, rather than finishing a group of shots and ending on the last round in the magazine, then running around with an empty gun until you encounter another bad guy and realize you're out of ammo when your gun doesn't fire.

Second of all, as mentioned by others in this thread, many of the weapons portrayed in the game operate in such a manner as the bolt stays locked to the rear when the last round has been fired. It's pretty easy to tell this has happened in real life, since it sounds and feels different from a regular shot. It's not nearly as easy to tell that this has happened in game -- except with the MX, since it has an ambidextrous charging handle that locks to the rear as well --, since you can't feel the gun firing. An onsceen indicator helps to indicate to players that something that they should have been able to feel has happened.

So I would say that, in general, it is not unrealistic.

It seems that there is no way to turn that indication off, sadly.

This is because the fact that this happens is actually a symptom of the fact that reloading is in the action menu, and reloading an empy weapon comes up as a default action, like when you walk up to a door or something.

[jgbtl292 0]

for ? the last bullet are tracers in all magazines in game from rifles in - tracer or no tracer mags ;9 you see when you shot the last 4-5 bullets - and when not - you have no booom - that o,5 second to press the middle mouse key to reload when the weapon is empty is not a magical time in this game.