DCS World an LockOn FC3 Released

[Macadam Cow 1]

Well they are already working on the Nevada map and the new Edge terrain engine.

So they might have dropped the Crimea map because of the important workload the conversion to DCS:W would have meant.

In regards of my previous post I must also state that I have neither Blackshark, nor FC1, nor FC2.

So I see no reason for me to stop playing ED games.

You can be sure if they ever attempt to release a payware patch called A-10C 2 I will not buy it and I'll be the loudest whiners on their forums.

[Beagle 684]

Well they are already working on the Nevada map and the new Edge terrain engine.

So they might have dropped the Crimea map because of the important workload the conversion to DCS:W would have meant.

In regards of my previous post I must also state that I have neither Blackshark, nor FC1, nor FC2.

So I see no reason for me to stop playing ED games.

You can be sure if they ever attempt to release a payware patch called A-10C 2 I will not buy it and I'll be the loudest whiners on their forums.

Crimea was dropped because DCS maps can only contain a certain amount of terrain and objects. Nevada will work because its mostly featureless desert and boring.

Source: SimHQ

Edited November 23, 2012 by Beagle

[Macadam Cow 1]

See Beagle, you can call me a fanboy but you're without a doubt a hateboy.

How can you say Nevada will be featureless and boring when all we've seen is roughly 20 pics ?

You base your assumption on a 2 year old batch ? Nobody knows how big it will be and what it will feature.

Or maybe you have some top secret info you'd like to share with us ?

That's exactly what I was talking about in my first post: haters

You spit on ED for things you'd forgive BIS

But thanks for the info about Crimea, I didn't know that.

[hellfire257 3]

Ah, the mythical Nevada that only exists in pictures. If we followed quantum mechanics then the thing doesn't exist at all. I played Nevada back when it was in the game and it was rather boring, but it had potential and it was a nice change of scenery from the ~5 year old region we have now.

[Beagle 684]

Use Google maps and you see that nevada is most featureless desert..it's no rocket science to figure that out...guss why red flag is done there...IT'S NOBOBY THERE in the dry desert.

Alternativle use FSX with Ultimate Terrain USA...and see...nothign there, its a desert, uh oh maybe that's the reason nuklear weapons tests and large scale military excercises did happen there.

and yes im a hater I hate ED for selling the same game since Flanker 2.5 and for charging full price for tiny updates. I once was a fanboy until they came up wth BS2 and FC2.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Beagle

[Macadam Cow 1]

Well just like you said it's a desert so...I guess when you're saying featureless it's your "hater side" speaking.

They aren't going to add christmas trees just to fill empty spaces.

And the good news is that the one and only tree on Nevada will be collidable :P

I understand your frustration Beagle but just like I said earlier ED shouldn't be solely judged on that...whatever let's agree to disagree.

When you say they're selling the same game since Flanker that's just not true, it's exactly like people saying there were no evolution between OFP and ArmA 2. But again...whatever...

The Nevada map is almost done, they're holding it because of Edge.

What ? You want a source ? YOU WANT A SOURCE ? A SOURCE ?

here it is :

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1612876&postcount=1296

I must admit I myself am a bit concern about the lack of answer to alexiao very last question.

sshhhh no Beagle, it's too early to make any conclusion

Edited November 24, 2012 by Macadam Cow

[hellfire257 3]

I don't really care that ED are the last of their kind. If they do something I don't like, I'll call it out. Just because they're the last doesn't mean we should appease them. If they went down the toilet I would actually be happy, because the next company to come along can learn from their mistakes.

I first started having a mild disliking of ED at the release of A-10C. It was clear that the modular system wasn't in place and that unless they fancied updating Ka-50 and FC2 up to A-10C standards for free, then we would have to pay. The master server rubbish was another kick in the teeth, followed by BS2 (The Quest for Money). Thankfully, things have been picking up as of late, and although it was regrettable to have to pay for LOMAC for the 3rd time, it was something I couldn't miss out on.

Still cannot find a source for these mythical new models. I presume they'll come out at the same time as Nevada?

But remember, everything is subject to change! Unfortunately though Wags, consumer laws don't change very often, and neither does the opinion of a customer burned twice.

I tell you what is funny though, the amount of drones on ED's forums that will forgive ED even if they raped their grandmother twice. Of course, ED can never do any wrong, right?

Edited November 24, 2012 by Hellfire257

[max power 21]

If they went down the toilet I would actually be happy, because the next company to come along can learn from their mistakes.

By the sounds of it, these kinds of hardcore simulations aren't profitable enough- that is probably their primary mistake. So, in order to avoid making that mistake, the next company would simply just opt not to come along.

[hellfire257 3]

The way I see it is that in order to make money, you need to spend it. If you thought it was bad asking someone if they've heard of ARMA, try DCS. Their market is niche, so they either need to diversify or keep making low profits. Fortunately, diversification is starting to take place. They're redeeming themselves slowly.

I see what you're saying though.

[max power 21]

Both DCS products and BI products are complex software products built iteratively on very old platforms. I really don't see someone coming in with an all new engine to compete with these games, or really replace them if they disappear. The niche markets don't really seem like they're very attractive right now. People are trying to reinvent the 80s and 90s right now (with space sims, tbs games, tactical games) through kick starters and we all saw what happened with Ground Branch.

[spooky lynx 73]

By the sounds of it, these kinds of hardcore simulations aren't profitable enough- that is probably their primary mistake. So, in order to avoid making that mistake, the next company would simply just opt not to come along.

Trying to sell slightly upgraded old stuff as new one wouldn't give them much profit too. Moreover it will make the number of customers even lower. Sad that they don't remember the proverb "Greed destroys" and "miserly person pays twice".

[max power 21]

Well, when you find a way to make hardcore sims profitable, please inform ED.

[spooky lynx 73]

Well, when you find a way to make hardcore sims profitable, please inform ED.

IMO it's better to have small but stable profit than try to make a bigger one and then lose already existing customers. Promise to make patch and then selling it as new title does not increase the number of game fans, isn't it?

[Macadam Cow 1]

ED said they were lucky to break even on their products. The price tag of their games is based on a 10 years business plan.

This kind of business plan is nowhere to be seen anymore in the video game industry. You can't compare them to EA or Blizzard who are releasing the same game every year with no support whatsoever.

So yes, in the end BS costed you around €60/$75, do you really think it's such a ripoff that it justify to bash ED the way you do and to definitely turn your back on them ?

Nobody is perfect and ED is no exception but even with their questionable payware patches their games remains really cheap for what they offer.

If ED goes down the toilet there will be no one to replace them.

No one else has the experience they have

No one else has the contracts they have with the military

No one else cares about Hi-Fi simutlation like they do.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Macadam Cow

[max power 21]

IMO it's better to have small but stable profit than try to make a bigger one and then lose already existing customers.

What profit are you talking about? I think what ED is trying to do is produce the game they want to and actually make some kind of small profit. The reason they're doing what they're doing is because there is no profit, meaning it's not a sustainable business.

[spooky lynx 73]

So yes, in the end BS costed you around €60/$75, do you really think it's such a ripoff that it justify to bash ED the way you do and to definitely turn your back on them ?

Nobody is perfect and ED is no exception but even with their questionable payware patches their games remains really cheap for what they offer.

If ED goes down the toilet there will be no one to replace them.

At first I don't complain on the price tag of BS or FC:) I complain about weird behavior of talking about one and doing quite another. And naming thing that is patch in fact another game title (and selling it with full price).

At second, Joseph Stalin said "There's no unreplaceable persons". I can't say there would not be any company that can't replace ED after its fail. "Good place can't be empty for long", and such sim niche is a good place. If now there's no rivals, it doesn't mean there won't be any after some time.

What profit are you talking about? I think what ED is trying to do is produce the game they want to and actually make some kind of small profit. The reason they're doing what they're doing is because there is no profit, meaning it's not a sustainable business.

Well if they don't have enough profit - they should do some other business, eh?

[max power 21]

Well if they don't have enough profit - they should do some other business, eh?

Yeah, and then you have no hardcore simulations, period. I don't even care. I'm not invested in this at all. I have not played nor do I have any desire to play an ED game. I am interested in the sim genre in general, and how niche markets work. If what Macadam Cow claims ED says is true, and they are just squeeking by, once they're gone, good bye switch flipping sim genre. Then you'll be happy, right Spooky Lynx?

[spooky lynx 73]

Yeah, and then you have no hardcore simulations, period. I don't even care. I'm not invested in this at all. I have not played nor do I have any desire to play an ED game. I am interested in the sim genre in general, and how niche markets work. If what Macadam Cow claims ED says is true, and they are just squeeking by, once they're gone, good bye switch flipping sim genre. Then you'll be happy, right Spooky Lynx?

I have no hardcore simulations for some period of time. Again, they are not unique, and sim development won't be prohibited by law since ED is gone:) There will be another company which find a solution of making good sim and having enough money without cheating its fans. There were sims before ED, there will be sims after ED, period.

[maturin 12]

There'd be a lot more electric cars around, were that always the case. This is capitalism; sometimes the invisible hands lacks a few fingers.

[max power 21]

I have no hardcore simulations for some period of time. Again, they are not unique, and sim development won't be prohibited by law since ED is gone:) There will be another company which find a solution of making good sim and having enough money without cheating its fans. There were sims before ED, there will be sims after ED, period.

No, my point is that it's not profitable, meaning it's high risk, meaning that there won't be another company coming to take it's place. No one starts a company to make no money.

[spooky lynx 73]

No, my point is that it's not profitable, meaning it's high risk, meaning that there won't be another company coming to take it's place. No one starts a company to make no money.

Is ED the only gamedev in the world? Whatever stops other companies that have already some money-bringing products to develop a sim that surely will also give them money? Well, let's not go far and look at BIS. Their main game was also rather niche product that does not have many customers and fans. I think everybody agrees that OFP series equalled BI studio and vice versa for a long time, isn't it? But do they starve from lack of money? No. They could get money without any payware patches and both ArmA and ArmA2 really look as other titles. So what hinders ED to act the same way? Nothing except the will to gain easy money, idea of them being unique in the whole world and curve hands of themselves.:)

[hellfire257 3]

Do you really think it's such a ripoff that it justify to bash ED the way you do and to definitely turn your back on them ?

Yes, because they're in business, and the business world is harsh. Screw up, and you lose. Simple.

I have no sympathy - they chose their path, I chose mine.

[andersson 285]

Maybe that "easy money" is the only way to keep ED floating right now? Left without no other option.

Just as BIS released armed assault prematurely, and they knew it, because they really needed that money to survive.

[max power 21]

Is ED the only gamedev in the world? Whatever stops other companies that have already some money-bringing products to develop a sim that surely will also give them money? Well, let's not go far and look at BIS. Their main game was also rather niche product that does not have many customers and fans. I think everybody agrees that OFP series equalled BI studio and vice versa for a long time, isn't it? But do they starve from lack of money? No. They could get money without any payware patches and both ArmA and ArmA2 really look as other titles. So what hinders ED to act the same way? Nothing except the will to gain easy money, idea of them being unique in the whole world and curve hands of themselves.:)

BI studio is not ED and ArmA is not a switch flipping flight sim. Not all niches are the same niche.

[spooky lynx 73]

Maybe that "easy money" is the only way to keep ED floating right now? Left without no other option.

Just as BIS released armed assault prematurely, and they knew it, because they really needed that money to survive.

I can name at least one more option - to have both hardcore and arcade regimes in all their sims. Those who don't want to study 200+ pages manual and print key list on 5-6 pages (that was the only way to remember at least part of them:D) may fly easy way, those who are hardcore gamers turn all the options on and enjoy real-like flying. I don't know exactly but do A-10C and BS2 have ability to play at ease? I know that since FC1 Su-25s are made as "advanced model" without immortality and with overdrive always on. If the same goes to BS2 and Warthog - this means ED lost many customers by their own will.