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-Coulum-

Aiming Accuracy in Arma 3

Should Aiming in Arma 3 Be Made Harder?   222 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Aiming in Arma 3 Be Made Harder?

    • Yes - harder shooting would result in better gameplay
      137
    • No - the shooting in a2 is fine as is
      85

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252 posts in this topic

In ACE wind lowers the chances of just pointing your aimpoint at the enemy and pressing LMB to score 1 shot kill like it's in vanilla. When I play vanilla I feel the lack of this up to a point where vanilla shooting feels so uncomfortable to me because I got used to compensating for wind and my weapon not being as precise.

I really hope BIS will add wind because I mean - BIS games feature absolutely realistic night sky where you can make out real life constellations and you see those that you see in that part of a planet IRL and as time passes Earth rotates. So BIS does this, but can't implement a wind? You can see trees shaking like there's a storm outside but your bullets will still fly perfectly straight.

Simulating details like real night sky while ignoring the very basics like windage?

Edited by metalcraze

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In ACE wind lowers the chances of just pointing your aimpoint at the enemy and pressing LMB to score 1 shot kill like .. .. ..

Do i missed something?

I know ACE+wind has effect ONLY on sniper rifles-not other categories of weapons. :confused: :confused:

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Do i missed something?

I know ACE+wind has effect ONLY on sniper rifles-not other categories of weapons. :confused: :confused:

All weapons, even launchers

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Yeah wind applies to all weapons as far as I know. But it seems only really noticeable when sniping to me. With an m16 + acog my shots have a displacement of around 6 inches at 350m. Enough to make a poor shot a miss but not enough to make a centre of mass shot miss often. And really that seems Pretty realistic to me. The fact is, in an average firefight, I doubt wind is the reason for missing ones mark in reality.

Edited by -Coulum-

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When ACE wind is "red" standard engagements at 200m and up become much more interesting.

Surely it doesn't create some drastic spread, but it does have an effect on precision making hitting a target at that distance more challenging.

And when the target is moving fast the effect is even more noticeable. Currently in vanilla all you need to do is to train yourself to lead the target and if you lead it well enough - you just score a hit without much effort.

With ACE wind hitting moving targets is much harder - which is fair.

And yes - sniping in vanilla is too easy. ACE windage already fixes that problem.

Wind and breathing are real things presenting challenge to any rifleman - so it's only logical for ArmA to have them. Not everyone will be a good sniper, unlike in vanilla where on Takistan you can just grab a rifle with optics and you are a sniping god.

Edited by metalcraze

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Yeah, ACE has windage for everyone but AI.

I know BIS is opposed to windage, but they really NEED to enable it for snipers. Then the modders can extend it to everyone else.

I won't be really happy until I see my RPGs blowing upwind.

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Unfortunately i haven't seen any good argument on WHY ARMAIII shouldn't have windage.

As i stated some days ago making a different combat system (i.e Breathing+Windage=close to real) will ONLY benefit

new and old players (mainly in PvP but for better reality in coop missions).

I 've seen countless times someone new to PvP got frustrated from the aiming speed and accuracy of an experienced player and he never plays again..and believe me i 've played Thousands of hours PvP.

So i really believe this will be money loss (and disappointment for lots of us)

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Tell it to the devs. I haven't seen many players arguing against windage either.

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Yes dear friend.

That's why i m posting to BI forums.

I always hoped that devs reading news :)

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Yeah, ACE has windage for everyone but AI.

I don't see much point in windage for AI. AI have to aim, then windage affects bullet, so AI corrects for wind. Why not simply just not have it for AI, it's an unnecessary step in the process :) there would be absolutely no ingame difference.

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Yeah, I agree, at least so long as the AI are so terrible at sniping.

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How much does a soldier care about wind, bullet drag, head or tailwinds? Is wind always constant in force and direction? How important is wind/drag effect in close and medium range for A3 anyway? Wind effect is imo one of those "nice to have" features and could be more interesting for snipers or long range shooting. There are more factors that need to be working very well before A3 could be considered as an "sniper sim" or "artillery sim" or "sailing sim". Let BIS improve + develop the vehicle/aircraft/navy part much more before going into details with stuff that has only a small gain for A3. :)

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How much does a soldier care about wind, bullet drag, head or tailwinds? Is wind always constant in force and direction? How important is wind/drag effect in close and medium range for A3 anyway? Wind effect is imo one of those "nice to have" features and could be more interesting for snipers or long range shooting. There are more factors that need to be working very well before A3 could be considered as an "sniper sim" or "artillery sim" or "sailing sim". Let BIS improve + develop the vehicle/aircraft/navy part much more before going into details with stuff that has only a small gain for A3.

Think this is the way Bis is thinking as well. Wind is fine and dandy but for the average guy with a rifle it doesn't make to much of a difference. Some people say they actually acount for it with ace but when using an aim-point or iron-sights I never even give it thought. pretty sure BIS is also saying to themselves "well ace did a fine job in a2 and there probably going to do the same and more in a3 so... maybe its worth it work on other features and fixes that aren't so easy to mod in." Not saying BIS is lazy or anything, but lets face it they have limited manpower and TONS of things to possibly work on... like adding more realistic weaponsway, breathing and aiming techniques:)

I see that there are quite a few people who don't want aiming in arma 3 to be any more involved or difficult than it is in a2. This is fine but do those who voted against it have any particular reason why they don't want shooting to involve more concentration? I am just interested to know what would be wrong with it?

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Most of the time you spend playing as a foot soldier so infantry should be the main focus after all. Series suffers for a long time now from BIS trying to do everything at once and thus not doing any single part well.

It's about time we finally get that windage and breathing, it can't hurt. In close combat/mid distances this won't break anything and on long distances this will only make being a good sniper more important.

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Guess there are many people who would just like to operate all kind of A3 weapon systems, vehicles and aircrafts in a realistic way. Somewhere BIS have to draw the line and decide whats 'too much pain for just a little gain'. Maybe BIS have already thought about putting some content as test/beta for further A3 builds so they can improve/fix current bigger dev problems/issues first?

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Ehhh... there is a difference.

Wind influence introduces systematic error. You will need to fire a couple of tracer rounds to really adjust for it. If you notice at all where your bullets go.

In some conditions you won;t be able to see impacts...

The AI cone of fire will result in averaging it out - the AI will be too precise on their opening shots and too inaccurate on follow ups. The disperison will also have a shape of cone, while bullets should drift in one direction if fired in succession.

Introducing a spread pattern (like in Counterstirke:GO or old CS, for lack of better example) instead of cone of fire might be a good idea in general, since when people make an error in aiming they usually stay consistent (wrong range estimation for example)...

This talk also reminds me of discussions back in Arma1 where people were against using tracer rounds in their rifles. Wind influence might convince some finally.

I need to point out one thing as well: if only certain classes of weapons would be affected by wind people would pick rifles or MGs over sniper rifles for sniping, since lack of wind is a nice handicap.

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You mean spread pattern like in CS is inconsistent. Since it's just totally random.

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You mean spread pattern like in CS is inconsistent. Since it's just totally random.

Actually I meant the pattern for recoil. Not the spread applied to first shot accuracy.

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Hmm?

Sorry Panda_pl, not sure I am grasping what your suggesting about the ai. Could you try explaining it again for me.

As for wind only being applied to snipers... well if its going to be implemented, might as well implement it on all weapons. People should be dissuaded from using snipers for real life reasons. Hopefully improved weapon handling in CQC and a proper weight/stamina/speed system will achieve this.

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Hmm?

Sorry Panda_pl, not sure I am grasping what your suggesting about the ai. Could you try explaining it again for me.

Sure.

In CS:GO if you press the trigger and just hold it the bullets will hit randomly but each bullet will hit within some maximum distance from eachother. Typically climbing up. It is random but with bias.

I meant a pattern where shots that end up off-target would still have some grouping. The consecutive hits would be close to each other.

Think about if you misjudge the wind while shooting an LMG your shots will drift off to the same side, not spread over the target area. Then you try to compensate and walk your rounds to target.

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In CS:GO if you press the trigger and just hold it the bullets will hit randomly but each bullet will hit within some maximum distance from eachother. Typically climbing up. It is random but with bias.

I meant a pattern where shots that end up off-target would still have some grouping. The consecutive hits would be close to each other.

Think about if you misjudge the wind while shooting an LMG your shots will drift off to the same side, not spread over the target area. Then you try to compensate and walk your rounds to target.

Okay I understand what you mean Panda Pl, good idea. It probably would make the ai look like they are effected by wind. But until we get wind in game it doesn't really matter unfortunately.

On the topic of breath simulation and weapon sway. -

(11:25 - 11:50). Its from vbs2.

Every breath creates noticeable raising and lowering of your aim. But this will give you even more reason to crouch, go prone or rest your weapon against something. As you can see, in crouched position sway is about halved and in prone position it is barely even visible.

And although the sway is larger than in a2, notice it is very smooth and predictable. With a little concentration and time (not practice time, but aiming time) you will be just as accurate as you are in a2.

And another thing is, when your tired or wounded as shown in the start, the weapon sway looks much more easier to handle than currently. In a2 when your wounded or tired your aim jumps from one random point to another so no matter how good you are, it is impossible to line up shots – you must rely on luck. But, using this system, the weapon just sways up and down more and a bit faster. It is still possible to time shots and be accurate, its just harder and slower than if you weren't wounded.

I really think this type of system would be an awesome addition to arma and increase the teamwork needed for firefights and the skill required for marksmanship, the latter currently requiring almost zero skill. Not to mention it will vastly improve the realism of firefights.

I honestly can’t see a downside to it. Anyone who voted against harder shooting see a negative aspect that I am missing?

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^That's exactly what I mean by VBS2 breathing system

Also notice how it's at the same time both realistic and somewhat predictable (meaning you can predict where the bullet will go even if weapon's shaking).

Right now it's worse in both ways - no realistic breathing - weapon just dances around the screen randomly.

Of course holding breath affects the sway hard in VBS2 - but in ArmA2 holding breath has next-to-none effect

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Are riflemen even taught to hold their breath when shooting? Snipers and marksmen are supposed to delay inhaling for a moment when they take their shot, but that's from a stationary, prone position.

I'd be really surprised if gunmen on the move are going around regulating their breathing. And there's no way you're going to do that when you are actually winded. You'll make yourself vomit.

I like limited effectiveness of ArmA 2's breath control. It's still quite useful.

You have to think ahead on this point. If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

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If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

Well, currently you have two ways to return from sighted view. Right mouse button click or shift+forward. The latter could be eliminated and shift could be used for it. Holding breath will actually add fun IMO. It's another "skill" choice...

EDIT: How can you vote no on the poll ?!?!? :(

Also bullets affected by wind would be great for PvP and just-for-fun-COOPs (Domination) beacuse it'd make kills on long distances harder.

Edited by batto

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You have to think ahead on this point. If BIS added lots of sway in ArmA 3, breath control would just be another annoying button that everyone would press to make their aiming like all other FPS. Giving us Carpal Tunnel for no real benefit in realism or gameplay.

Holding ones breath would be realistically depicted. Depending on your level of fatigue you will be able to hold your breath for 1-3 seconds or so before weaponsway becomes even more drastic than before holding breath. In addition it will increase fatigue as you are not sucking in new air. I believe this is also how vbs 2 shooting works. It will require you to time your shots well and make them count. Armas current breath system hardly makes a difference to shooting because theres hardly any sway in the first place. you can also hold your breath for a good 30 seconds before any negative effects occur which is very unrealistic and leads to exactly what you say you don't want - people holding their breath all the time.

EDIT: How can you vote no on the poll ?!?!?

That's exactly what I'm wondering. I've seen and wrote many good arguments as to why a more involved system would benifit the game... Yet there is still a good number of people against the idea. This is fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I haven't really heard anyone say why. There's been no real arguments against the idea and I'm interested to know what the cons would/could be.

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