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BobcatBob

Josppeh Kony's crimes against humanity

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Here is a viral video telling about the horrible crimes against humanity that this man (the leader of the Lord's Resistance Army) has committed. Despite the fact that these atrocities have been occurring for over two decades almost no-one (until recently) knew what was happening or was willing to take any decisive action. The movement has been gaining alot of traction now and because I did not see any thread about it on these forums I felt I should write about it here for those who do not know. This man must be stopped!

Edited by Placebo

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KONY SHMONY, yet another more elevated Nigerian scam!

This action is a scam, don't get yourself fooled people. Only 30% percent goes to the charity! This organisation is lobbying US intervention in Africa plus they want to deliver more power for the Ugandan army! Since when delivering more weapons to one side solved a conflict? It will only lead to a larger escalation.

Reasons to not donate any money to this cause.

http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble

Other charities support similar action similar action, only without the lobbing for US army intervention that are much more highly rated.

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4943

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3220

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8392

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=8875

"The problems with the 'Kony 2012' campaign: Ok so let's get this out of the way first, the basic idea of the campaign is great, to raise awareness of a war criminal that uses children as soldiers and sex slaves. Unfortunately the whole campaign seems to be missing the bigger political picture, I think this is nicely demonstrated in the statement of its second goal: 'That the U.S. military advisers support the Ugandan Army until Kony has been captured and the LRA has been completely disarmed. They need to follow through all the way and finish what they have started.' This statement not only suggests that the campaign is in favour of U.S. intervention but is completely uncritical of the Ugandan Government and its army, both of whom are by no means 'the good guys' in this. I can't be bothered going into too much detail but here are a few key points:

1) The Ugandan Government is a dictatorship with Yoweri Museveni as the president since 1986. Among many of its human rights violations the regime tortures prisons, oppresses other political parties and the press and also wishes to introduce a bill that would have 'convicted homosexuals' put to death.

2) In the civil war in which Yoweri Museveni gained power child soldiers were used by his army (National Resistance Army) which is now the army of Uganda but under a different name. (http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc315.php)

3) The Ugandan army, or rather its high ranking officers have being using 'ghost soldiers' (soldiers who are no longer on the pay-roll) to siphon off funds, making the war even more profitable for them than usual, giving them a vested interest in its continuation. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3514473.stm)

4) (kinda the same point again) War is profitable, especially for large arms economies such as the U.S. and the UK. 'U.S. Military adviser support' may as well say 'we want to US and its arms manufactures /dealers to sell the Ugandan Government shit tons more weapons'. I'm sure there's many more points that could be made, and this is still a really basic explanation that barely goes into any detail, but even a single one of these points is enough to be critical of the campaign and its support of the Ugandan army. If the campaign really wants to be truly supportive of human rights it needs to recognise that Kony is not the only war criminal, all warmongering is a crime against humanity" Unknown

Additionally,

Of the $8.9 million in donations they spent in 2011, this is the breakdown: $1.7 million in US employee salaries $357,000 in Film costs $850,000 in Production costs $751,000 in Computer equipment $244,000 in "professional services" (DC lobbyists) $1.07 million in travel expenses $400,000 in yearly office rent in downtown San Diego $16,000 in Entertainment etc... Only 2.8 million (31%) made it to their charity program (which is further whittled down by local Ugandan government officials) - what do the children actually get?

Their rating on Charity Navigator is because they haven't had their financial books independently audited, and have no independent board members ...which is not a surprising given the use of cash noted above.

Source: Their own finacials -> Pages 6 and 12 http://c2052482.r82.cf0.rackcdn.com/images/737/original/FY11-Audited%20Financial%20Statements.pdf?1320205055

Source for ratings -> http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=12429

Edited by Sudayev
grammar

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Sudayev you are correct to raise suspicions about this charity and I doubt giving them money would solve anything. I have watched money pour into Africa for decades and it seems to evaporate as soon as it gets there. Expensive cars and houses seem to grow very well for a certain few though. Anyone wishing to donate to anything should choose very carefully!

However, if you chose only to work with non-corrupt, democratic governments in Africa you would soon find yourself with no one to work with. Also if you were to arrest people for crimes against humanity by western standards it would in fact be easier to build a fence around the entire continent. The US is doing the only thing possible and is focusing on the worst criminals while working with lesser criminals and hoping to change things. That is the uncomfortable reality.

Can I also point out that millions of tonnes of eastern block weapons were dumped in Africa from the 1950's onwards with no conditions placed on their use with the results we see today. Much of the horrific mutilation and violence was a method taught by North Korean and Chinese military advisors as a means of terror to control rural populations. In the country where I lived they would go from village to village picking victims at random, killing, burning, raping, forced cannibalism, hacking off lips ears and noses and leaving the clear message that if people didn't do what they said, worse would happen. The men that did this were fresh from communist training camps and armed with SKS, AKM & RPK rifles. So this whining about a small US involvement from the usual suspects does not really make any sense.

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Well, in this day and age "Charity" is the new scam of all. Plenty of manipulations and hoodwinking shoved under that badge for sure in every country.

But alas these will get what they asked for later on anyway.

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yet w/o any doubts one must ask why no superpower (this includes Russia or China not just USA) has stopped madmans from doing these things

one would say that 'normal' conflicts are enough

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I did not see any thread about it on these forums

you didnt see a thread because this:

KONY SHMONY, yet another more elevated nigerian scam!

Its disgusting how this has exploded all over the web the last 36 hours... i would have hoped we were smart enough not to get sucked in by it here. Evidently I was wrong...

One of my friends summed it up nicely on facebook this morning:

A mass murderer in Africa in an extremely complicated situation makes a 5 year old kid in America 'sad'. Let's all change our profile pictures, link the video and put some posters up. Problem solved. And if Kony is killed that'll be the end of all of Africas problems just like killing Bin Laden was the end of terrorism... Oh wait...

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One of my friends summed it up nicely on facebook this morning:

Who is claiming killing Joseph Kony will solve all of Africa's problems? It will solve the problem of Joseph Kony, who knows what will happen to his brainwashed child army. But it's a step in the right direction as this mass murderer can't be allowed to continue can he?

That facebook quote sums up some ridiculous soundbites that no one believes. Sums up someone with warped logic. Also putting ..Oh wait... at the end of something is getting nearly as irritating and meaningless as ....arrow to the knee...lol.

The OP is perfectly correct that something should be done about Kony. That idea should not be lessened just because of some oddball charity and their stupid video.

Edited by PELHAM

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I went like "wait what?" when they started to speak of the Ugandan Army as the good guys who need american arms and training.

Kony has to be stoped!

But I really doubt that their way is the right way.

Did you read the book Rainbow six from T.Clancy? I thinm the world needs an organisation like this, an international platoon of elite soldiers together with the logistical support they need, only controlled by the UN security council (The whole council, not just the big 5). The whole council votes if the unit should be deployed to arrest someone, if over 75% vote yes then he should be brought to justice, and the big 5 have no veto right. I think that would be the most effective way to stop people like Kony.

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Type in "LRA victims" in google and switch to images.

The victims don't find it funny - they just don't have any lips to cover their teeth with any more. If you had met people like this (I have), you wouldn't find joking about it as easy as you obviously do. While the video is yet another example of silly viral marketing and oversimplification, the crimes of Kony and the LRA across central Africa are very real. The International Criminal Court needs to bring people like this to justice.

Edited by PELHAM

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Its disgusting how this has exploded all over the web the last 36 hours... i would have hoped we were smart enough not to get sucked in by it here. Evidently I was wrong...

True, true. This forum is my ninth forum with Kony thread in recent two days :/ Thread authors always write about with great enthusiasm instead of informing other people who's really behind this action and what this action is all about. One thing is right - Shady Kony action authors have developed very good marketing and they know how to make things that go viral. Just look 25 million views on youtube now, just imagine the scale of donation among 'thinking less' individuals. Anyway who helps local orphanages? Wearing a wear wristband with some Kony guy is more trendy these days!

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Type in "LRA victims" in google and switch to images.

The victims don't find it funny - they just don't have any lips to cover their teeth with any more. If you had met people like this (I have), you wouldn't find joking about it as easy as you obviously do. While the video is yet another example of silly viral marketing and oversimplification, the crimes of Kony and the LRA across central Africa are very real. The International Criminal Court needs to bring people like this to justice.

I don't doubt that something needs to be done. I DO doubt that sharing some viral video for a less than legitimate "charity" (or changing your profile picture to a cartoon character to stop child abuse, or saying "where you like it" for breast cancer) is THE way to do something about it...

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Type in "LRA victims" in google and switch to images.

The victims don't find it funny - they just don't have any lips to cover their teeth with any more. If you had met people like this (I have), you wouldn't find joking about it as easy as you obviously do. While the video is yet another example of silly viral marketing and oversimplification, the crimes of Kony and the LRA across central Africa are very real. The International Criminal Court needs to bring people like this to justice.

Is the demagogy really necessary? No one is joking about the crimes. The joke is about the fact that the only thing unique about this particular African warlord is that he's become popular to young and idealistic white Westerners through a viral marketing campaign while atrocities like those perpetrated by him have been a regular occurrence around the world throughout history. Of course we should work to fight things like this, but awareness campaigns like "KONY 2012" are hollow and oversimplified affairs that typically serve only to make supporters feel better about themselves.

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I don't doubt that something needs to be done. I DO doubt that sharing some viral video for a less than legitimate "charity" (or changing your profile picture to a cartoon character to stop child abuse, or saying "where you like it" for breast cancer) is THE way to do something about it...

I partially agree that wealthy westerners making shallow attempts to be at ease with themselves while others suffer is often laughable and the way others get rich from the process is profoundly distasteful. However, people with no faces or fingers to type with don't often appear on facebook (well they don't even have computers) and they really do need others to raise awareness. Lets agree that without this silly viral vid most people would not be aware of the horrors that ocurred and are still occuring in the jungles of central africa. Changing your profile pic may not be THE way to end it but it does get the problem noticed and that's a small start.

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

Is the demagogy really necessary? No one is joking about the crimes.

Yes it is because this will all end up being a joke about a video and people will forget the crimes. I say forget the video and remember the real issue.

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I say forget the video and remember the real issue.

I'd say that the real issue is much bigger than Joseph Kony.

Also, on one particular part of the video:

I found it interesting that the filmmaker makes a point of Kony's lack of "a cause": "He's doing this just to maintain his own power; he's not fighting for anything else." The unavoidable implication here is that abducting children to be used as warrior-slaves is particularly bad if you're not fighting for "a cause," and the unavoidable corollary to this is that if you DO have "a cause," the use of warrior-slave children becomes at least a little more acceptable. And here I was thinking that the use of children as warrior-slaves is something that's just categorically wrong...

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I find it quite interesting that there's this sudden campaign aimed at increasing defence/security aid to Uganda through private aid just months after the UK, Sweden and other EU countries started withdrawing millions in inter-governmental aid to the country because of its decision to pass laws that allow death sentences to be handed out to people for being homosexual and other the persecution of other minority groups. Seems they're looking for an alternate source of revenue.

The Ugandan government didn't tackle this bloke for several years, when they did have millions of dollars more in aid money; I'm sceptical that the fact that the money comes from private donations will change that.

I'm not saying nowt should be done; just that the Ugandan government are the last bunch I'd trust to sort it out.

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I'd say that the real issue is much bigger than Joseph Kony.

Also, on one particular part of the video:

I found it interesting that the filmmaker makes a point of Kony's lack of "a cause": "He's doing this just to maintain his own power; he's not fighting for anything else." The unavoidable implication here is that abducting children to be used as warrior-slaves is particularly bad if you're not fighting for "a cause," and the unavoidable corollary to this is that if you DO have "a cause," the use of warrior-slave children becomes at least a little more acceptable. And here I was thinking that the use of children as warrior-slaves is something that's just categorically wrong...

I don't think they mean that, they are just commenting on the fact that he has no cause but himself. Someone watching that video might wonder what the purpose of all that butchery and fighting is or what Kony's reasoning is. How does he justify what he has done in his own thoughts? Some things that occur in Africa are very distasteful and it's very difficult to know where to begin or how to describe them as they are so at odds with western culture.

---------- Post added at 05:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 PM ----------

The Ugandan government didn't tackle this bloke for several years, when they did have millions of dollars more in aid money; I'm sceptical that the fact that the money comes from private donations will change that.

I'm not saying nowt should be done; just that the Ugandan government are the last bunch I'd trust to sort it out.

Quite wrong - they drove the LRA out of Uganda several years ago and killed some of the top commanders. That's why people have a problem with this video, the LRA isn't there anymore so why are they promoting it as a Ugandan issue to raise money? You should read the responses to this video from some of the Ugandan Ministers lol. The LRA now operate in other countries and it's suspected they operate from bases hidden in remote parts of the DRC.

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So when Joseph Kony was still a young man a rebel group calling themselves the NRA overthrew his government and as retaliation he ran off and joined another rebel group which he eventually became the leader of and renamed it the LRA. When his ranks grew thin he started abducting children and forcing them to fight for him to beef up his forces. Meanwhile the Ugandan Army now partially the NRA as they made an agreement that would see NRA forces join the Ugandan defense force. Needless to say some of the high ranking commanders of the former NRA were quite pissed about this as they sought to overthrow the Ugandan army and now their leaders had caved in to promises of wealth and a clean slate with the Ugandan Army because of their agreement with them. So these unhappy former commanders in the NRA left and went off to join other rebel groups in the area. One such commander, Odong Latek, was instrumental in convincing Kony to use standard military tactics over his "Cross formation". Now it's 2008, and apparently US advisers have been in Uganda for some time now. The Ugandan army has obviously been trying to stop Kony but now they have US logistics and US support in the planning phase of an operation that is to be conducted by the Ugandan Army, the Sudanese Liberation Army and the DR Congo defense force. It's interesting to note that Kony isn't actually in Uganda when this Operation takes place nor has he been for some time now. This coalition strikes and fights it's way into Kony's suspected stronghold, they find his camp and burn it down, no sign of Kony. So now it's 2012 and a man who has known a boy named Jacob (who was formerly one of Kony's child soldiers) for 10 years to whom he made a promise that he would stop Kony and stop the LRA has gotten together with his hipster buddies to try and rally support for this cause. Fair enough, this Joseph Kony is clearly a terrible person and he shouldn't be allowed to continue his activities in central Africa. Here are a few of my problems with his methods though and I'm not saying it's not a good cause, I'm just trying to see the reality of the situation and not just take the video at it's word (because we all know that would just be retarded).

So point one. Kony has been calling peace talks and agreeing to Ugandan peace talks for years now. Only thing is, Kony just uses these to give himself some breathing room to rearm and regroup. Now if Kony has gone into hiding in the DR Congo or wherever because he knows the US are aiding the Ugandan army, what do think he's doing? He's probably rearming and regrouping. I'm not saying that this is Invisible Children's fault, no matter how big their part was in getting the US advisers sent to Uganda the fact is that the US went there. Now Kony is laying low and probably regrouping and biding his time until this blows over. So now if he isn't caught he will probably come back even stronger than he was before.

Now onto the Kony captured scenario. If this guy is captured, and I hope he is, I'm guessing the LRA won't just disperse. You could argue that Kony is a religious fanatic and his followers are all brainwashed into believing that god is speaking through him, so if you take out Kony the groups divine leadership will be gone and they will most likely fall apart. Although it's not as though Kony doesn't have commanders and it isn't as though those commanders wouldn't want to do what he's doing, you just know there is a commander waiting for his chance to take power and lead the LRA himself. Now this could cause a power stuggle equally as damaging as if Kony had no one below him that wasn't just a brainwashed thug but there's always the chance that some of his commanders actually have a pretty good idea of how to continue running the LRA in Kony's absence and won't let his death or capture affect that.

Another scenario. The US gets so much public pressure that they have to send in more military intervention and really try to stabilize Uganda instead of just sending in 100 advisers and hoping people just forget about the whole thing in a few years (which is apparently happening now, hence the video and the December 31'st deadline). Even if Kony is captured but the public realizes stopping Kony is not the same as stopping the entire LRA insurgency this could pressure the US into another Afghanistan. I'm not saying the LRA is anything like the Taliban I simply don't know. All I mean is the US probably doesn't need another prolonged counter-insurgency focused on training the local forces to stabilizing a country that has been ravaged by civil wars and foreign intervention (and it's own Army at leas in part comprised of former rebels) for many years.

So to me these Invisible Children hipsters, no matter how noble their cause, are basically supporting one rebel group versus another because of a naive promise one man made to a Ugandan boy 10 years ago and they're trying to achieve it by the only means hipsters know. Posters and Public assemblies. If they do succeed good for them, it could be the first step down a road to the stabilization of Central Africa. But probably their will just be one less warlord, a big warlord, but just another warlord none the less. And those big boots will eventually get filled by someone else. Am I in the ballpark?

Edited by Clarkey1

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Just so people are clear I am not suggesting anyone should give money to this particular charity, but I just felt this video was a "interesting" way of letting people know of the situation (which they should) and at least spread awareness so that we can provoke action from somwhere in some shape or form, not neccesarily supporting the Ugandan Army, but (best case scenario in my book) maybe a world power would send a small group of SOF personell to directly combat the LRA (I have no idea how many or what unit would really be up to the task realistically) whenever it needs to, ONLY to arrest/kill Kony since he seems to have such a hold on the group I think it would severly limit the whole group's moral/willingness to fight (especially if he were paraded and ridiculed to all hell).

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So to me these Invisible Children hipsters, no matter how noble their cause, are basically supporting one rebel group versus another because of a naive promise one man made to a Ugandan boy 10 years ago and they're trying to achieve it by the only means hipsters know. Posters and Public assemblies. If they do succeed good for them, it could be the first step down a road to the stabilization of Central Africa. But probably their will just be one less warlord, a big warlord, but just another warlord none the less. And those big boots will eventually get filled by someone else. Am I in the ballpark?

Yeah it's been like that for half a century, I've seen campaigns come and go for many years, most quite shallow like this one. They don't achieve much, people claim hollow victories, get bored and it all fizzles out.

I'm puzzled why they are focused on Kony and Uganda and not the DRC next door (where Kony is now) which is full of Kony's and the child abduction, cannabalism, rape and butchery is/was 100 times worse? Not much was reported in the West about the wars in Congo in which Uganda and many other nations played a major part:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Congo_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Congo_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONUC#2010

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I dont know about you guys but i got a high when I liked one of those status posts on facebook. It made me feel like I could save the world or something....

NOT

This kinda shit happens every where on Earth that contains scum bag life forms.

A new Kony will surface on the Earth soon enough.

Humans do evil things to each other whats new?

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