HETMAN - Artificial Commander

[Rydygier 1302]

:) But this was that easiest part. Real troubles may appear during implementation. First is not much time for this in near future... However if it succeeds the effect may be very interesting. Classic HAC tactics against guerilla warfare...

[abdel 1]

Rydygier, Thanks man it's worked like a charm.

My SAS have done their job and now back under command :p

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh226/abdelazizfarouk/Untitled-2.png >100kb!

Edited February 19, 2012 by Foxhound
removed 900+kb hotlinked image!

[Jingle 0]

Just set up a four ai commander map on takistan US Army and BAF vs Takistan Army main base and takistan militia (capture points set up on high grounds rather than towns - infantry only), works good but I am still encountering issues with units not engaging. I am thinking it is because I have a lot of ai running around the map and the cyclic patterns of the orders and multiple scripts running causing this issue. One example being a Scorpion patrol encountering a militia patrol and ignoring them. I am going to test it with a lot less ai (small groups of about 40 units per commander - including infantry) and will let you know if there is any difference. I am not running any ai mods as I am finding the BI ai sufficient now.

Oh abdel bet they are a bit annoyed when they want to RTB to find HQ sends them a hold order:D (Pics kinda bring back memories of playing murder ball in searing heat in full NBC...man couldnt see out of respirator for condensation):D

Edited February 19, 2012 by Jingle

[KeyCat 131]

Would it be possible to somehow stop the kamikaze crew in helicopters (also armour crew but that could be harder to solve) to allways fight until dead?

I know this is a engine problem but maybe it would be possible by HAC to monitor the vehicles damage and when higher than let say 0.6 they would abort their insertions/attacks and try to RTB to randevu with the support vehicles and repair?

As it is now helis keep on flying round and engage even if they are hit over and over until they get shot down. It would be better if they tried to fly away to live another day ;)

/KC

Edited February 19, 2012 by KeyCat

[Rydygier 1302]

Well. In fact there is implemented such routine. Amongst other factors, when vehicle is damaged more than 0.5, then group is considered as "exhausted" in next Leader's cycle and receive "rest" order (look for green triangles on map in debug mode, good method to see, which side suffered greater losses), which means withdrawal to point, where often support units are gathering, if enemy nearby also with smoke usage if available (and this works - as tank commander I received such order when was damaged). Also such group will not receive further attack orders until its condition improve enough. But between receive order and obey order there is often big difference especially, when currently group is in fight.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Rydygier

[abdel 1]

Jingle, actually ya, they just sat down as sentry nearby the commander :D

Rydygier, oh another thing, I hope you're not tired of solving my problem :P

I've tried to see if the medevac functions properly, I've shoot my teammate but the medevac truck didn't bother to come and aid him.

I'm 600m close to the truck with no enemies nearby.

this is the RHQ arrays for the Humvee:

RHQ_Support = ["GAZ_Vodnik_MedEvac","UH1Y","KamazReammo","KamazRefuel","KamazRepair","Mi17_medevac_RU","ACE_UralReammo_RU","ACE_UralRefuel_RU","ACE_UralRepair_RU","UH60M_MEV_EP1","HMMWV_Ambulance_DES_EP1","MtvrRepair_DES_EP1","MtvrRefuel_DES_EP1","MtvrReammo_DES_EP1","UH60M_EP1"];

RHQ_Med =["GAZ_Vodnik_MedEvac","Mi17_medevac_RU","UH60M_MEV_EP1","HMMWV_Ambulance_DES_EP1"];

[KeyCat 131]

But between receive order and obey order there is often big difference especially, when currently group is in fight.

Understand that. I think the main problem is that there are no quick way to have the AI helicopter disengage when they are in a fight. For example "enableAttack false" doesn't work and I've experimented with disableAI but could never get it to work if they knowsAbout the enemy.

AI keeps fighting until two things happen, a) they runs out of all ammo or b) they die. Maybe a "quick and dirty" fix could be to remove all ammo with "setVehicleAmmo 0" then give them a move order/WP to RTB??

I will try to experiment a bit with this and let you know if I can get them to break an engagement...

/KC

[orcinus 121]

Just set up a four ai commander map on takistan US Army and BAF vs Takistan Army main base and takistan militia (capture points set up on high grounds rather than towns - infantry only), works good but I am still encountering issues with units not engaging. I am thinking it is because I have a lot of ai running around the map and the cyclic patterns of the orders and multiple scripts running causing this issue. One example being a Scorpion patrol encountering a militia patrol and ignoring them. I am going to test it with a lot less ai (small groups of about 40 units per commander - including infantry) and will let you know if there is any difference. I am not running any ai mods as I am finding the BI ai sufficient now.

I haven't seen this any more frequently with HAC than with vanilla 1.60 (and it is still an issue, especially at very close quarters, dammit) - & I've had up to about 400 units/side running around using HAC + DAC. Hmm - maybe that's why? Ryd, would a Leader order a group to refrain from attacking &/or withdraw if they were not sufficiently superior to the enemy or there weren't any/enough potential reinforcements in the area?

Jingle, were you playing in either of those 2 specific groups? If so, what were the leader's orders?

BR

Orcinus

PS a heads-up: Jedra has just released an in-game GUI that allows the player (or server admin in MP) to adjust all the setting for AI skills - even those somewhat embedded in the game engine. Had a couple of quick test games and it looks great. Should work well with HAC; abdel could make his SAS squad really mean :) Take a look here:

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?131233-Enhanced-Skills-Slider

PPS: Terox has released an update to Zeus_AI, see this post et seq.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?89970-Zeus-AI-Combat-Skills&p=2102099&viewfull=1#post2102099

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:03 PM ----------

Understand that. I think the main problem is that there are no quick way to have the AI helicopter disengage when they are in a fight. For example "enableAttack false" doesn't work and I've experimented with disableAI but could never get it to work if they knowsAbout the enemy.

AI keeps fighting until two things happen, a) they runs out of all ammo or b) they die. Maybe a "quick and dirty" fix could be to remove all ammo with "setVehicleAmmo 0" then give them a move order/WP to RTB??

I will try to experiment a bit with this and let you know if I can get them to break an engagement...

/KC

AIUI, "enableAttackFalse" is really useful in preventing a group leader from sending single units running off on SSS mission (which it does seem to do). Not the issue here. Breaking contact in 1.60 seems to be a big problem in general; most annoyingly (to me, anyway) orders to your own team to withdraw &/or disengage are ignored if one or more units are in contact, even when they are already in column or delta formation.

Removing all ammo if damage reaches say 0.4 might work; interesting idea. Looking forward to the results.

BR

Orcinus

Edited February 19, 2012 by Orcinus

[Rydygier 1302]

Ryd, would a Leader order a group to refrain from attacking &/or withdraw if they were not sufficiently superior to the enemy or there weren't any/enough potential reinforcements in the area?

Hmm. Currently there is no such comparing with engaged enemy after issuing order, only before HAC considering, which group, if any, will be best to engage given enemy. Withdrawn are only groups considered as combat ineffective due to lack of ammo, health status, damage and casaulties (and this is happening, if enemy is to tough). Maybe it is possible, maybe to complicated... must to think about this.

Its funny. I tried really hard to convince withrawning groups to stop firing at enemy and even to stop pay attention on him. Yes, I tried to achieve exactly this blindness, what happens as this issue to you, guys, but without effect. I suppose, there was maded some changes in AI after Arma 2 1.10, that gives this strange effect. Can't reproduce this issue so can't determine, what is its source.

I think, that using of numerous and/or heavy scripts may cause such effects like not reacting AI only, if routines responsible for AI's default actions (FSMs?) such as firing at spotted enemy, have the same or lower priority in access to CPU resources as these scripts (HAC, DAC and so on). I do not know what's true, but I doubt it. Of course, if this effect apperars only when HAC is active, then situation is clear, but if it appears also without HAC, then what can I do?

PS a heads-up: Jedra has just released an in-game GUI that allows the player (or server admin in MP) to adjust all the setting for AI skills - even those somewhat embedded in the game engine. Had a couple of quick test games and it looks great. Should work well with HAC; abdel could make his SAS squad really mean Take a look here:

Yes, saw this thread. However for now I not even to launch Arma, so can't try this, only for quick HAC testing, because also my secondary, old videocard starts to make troubles and I think, that this junk will die soon. Fortunately there is a chance that in a month I will finally have a better one, but it is anything for sure.

---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:32 ----------

Rydygier, oh another thing, I hope you're not tired of solving my problem :P

I've tried to see if the medevac functions properly, I've shoot my teammate but the medevac truck didn't bother to come and aid him.

I'm 600m close to the truck with no enemies nearby.

Reason may be as follows:

- was not injuried seriously enough (they call for ambulance when there is such support in 500 meters radius (and even not necessary to know about, this is default Arma AI behaviour) and when damage is > 0.5 or when soldier can not stand (legs damage 1.0); so also only for this or greater damage ambulance will be sent. This is most probably here, try to add this code to init field of given unit: this setdamage 0.6 and check then;

- was injuried enough, but ambulance was busy in other area;

- some time passes before support mission is issued...

---------- Post added at 23:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

RHQ_Support = ["GAZ_Vodnik_MedEvac","UH1Y","KamazReammo","KamazRe fuel","KamazRepair","Mi17_medevac_RU","ACE_UralRea mmo_RU","ACE_UralRefuel_RU","ACE_UralRepair_RU","U H60M_MEV_EP1","HMMWV_Ambulance_DES_EP1","MtvrRepair_DES_EP1","MtvrRefuel_DES_EP1","MtvrRe ammo_DES_EP1","UH60M_EP1"];

RHQ_Med =["GAZ_Vodnik_MedEvac","Mi17_medevac_RU","UH60M_MEV_ EP1","HMMWV_Ambulance_DES_EP1"];

Oh. There is no need to add into RHQs classnames of units, that are generic in pure Arma 2 1.10, only others (OA, CO, BAF, user maded and so on). This should make no difference however.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Rydygier

[Jingle 0]

Jingle, were you playing in either of those 2 specific groups? If so, what were the leader's orders?

BR

Orcinus

I have been using MCC Sandbox spectator ability to follow and track units (a really useful debugging tool) At the time of the patrol I was actually back at the airfield a long way away from the action but was viewing it in camera mode.

Things I have tried:

1) Reducing units drastically on both sides to see if that makes a difference - Result same.

2) Removing and adding AI mods such as ASR_AI and ZEUS_AI - Result same.

3) Playing as a member of BLUFOR and OPFOR in various situations in the same mission. - Result same.

My conclusions thus far are that engagements are sporadic and unpredictable between enemy units at best. In the above example an AH64 was engaging enemy ground infantry patrols in the same area but the scorpion patrol did not - nor did the militia squad engage the scorpion patrol.

Something is interfering with the AI ability to act as individual units in random encounters.

Recommendations:

Try to streamline the way that HAC works so that there is less internal processes going on at the same time.

Leave the micromanagement of the units ai to the unit and not the commander, maybe for example just set an open waypoint and leave squads formation and danger mode to the individual squad.

Please dont take this as a whine - I love and appreciate all the hours put into this mod - Good job Ryd:D

[Rydygier 1302]

Not good.

So I assume, that this problem not appears without HAC? Everyone have this problem? And appears while regular combat mission is issued by HAC? Can anyone test if this will appear when playing on pure Arma 2 1.10?

Hmm. As I said, it is not appears to me at all, so can't hunt'em down, I move blindly here.

Disabling different formations and waypoint behaviours will remove one of the most requested feature for HAC - exactly that: different formations and behaviours depending on situation. It would be a big regress. AI, as far as I know, will not change formation or behaviour on its own depending on situation, so in this case all troops should be all the time in default, aware mode, exactly as in first HAC version. And this is not true solution, means not cure for the problem, only removing troublemaking HAC feature, if really this is troublemaking here (if so, then same problem should occurs without HAC, when waypoint with different behaviours are set manually in editor, so I'm not convinced here).

Micromanagement, if I understeand this word correctly here, is limited to minimum and only to specific situations (disableAI target and autotarget for cargo vehicles when on cargo missions (but cargo system is off by default, so can be easily tested without), smoke placing when withdrawing (also may be turned off), setting direction of watching on defensive position, turning off engine for idle vehicles... its all, I think). I see no way, in which this may affect regular combat behaviour, but I already said that before. HAC not deals with micro AI in any other way that by choosing default implemented in Arma waypoints modes (if this modes are crippled, then this is Arma issue, not HAC's). So, simply, do not know, what to do with this. I have no where to start, an idea, nothing. :(

In the future I plan to improve code effectiveness, if I'm able to, but this means probably writing nearly all HAC code in different way (and for know I do not know, in which way), this means lot of work and lot of time needed for this, and time is currently luxury, that I haven't to much. And I see, that before this I will need to buy newest game version, because obviously my pure Arma do not share such problems with new OA/CO, and this will not happened soon, I afraid.

Also there was said, that this kind of code do not overloads CPU, because is low priority. And in fact, there is no any FPS impact because of HAC for me, I have low-end computer, regardless, if there is one Leader or all of them, that means eight. Only difference is, that issuing orders take more time for each Leader (probably their scripts share always same amount of CPU resource, but in first place, beacuse cycles aren't executed simultanousy, but alternately).

Hmm. Perhaps someone have a time and possibility to prepare short youtube presentation, how exactly this blindness looks like? This may help a bit too...

PS Shortly: while haven't OA, CO and so on, I can't do anything about that until you, guys, provide to me a repro mission with this issue present and pointed, based on pure Arma 2 1.10 (and without any other mods/addons). I can not fix the problem, which I know only from the description of the other players, when these descriptions aren't and can't be sufficient to understand, what exactly is going wrong, and which I am not able to see and diagnose in my own gameplay, with some useful tools, in fully controlled by me environment etc. Sorry...

Edited February 20, 2012 by Rydygier

[humvee28 10]

Hi there!

A little Problem Report :

Crews of Vehicles (in motorized / mechanized Infantry Groups) disembarking with the Infantry, and don´t moving back into it, leaving the Vehicle behind.

Rarely they´re moving back into the Vehicle, but the Squad won´t mount up (even if the next Waypoint is Kilometers away).

Especially the first Thing is very annoying. Any Chance to fix this? :)

[Rydygier 1302]

Especially the first Thing is very annoying. Any Chance to fix this?

Good news - already reported and fixed for next release. :)

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

About this annoying blindness issue:

Very long shot, still there was changes in this in 1.60, so someone can test it:

There is some reveal script, that provides Leader's knowledge about known enemy and friendly positions to all team leaders. For this purpose is used reveal command. Who knows, maybe this sets knowsAbout parameter to low for 1.60? Can't test this, so you, guys, must to test it for me. :)

So. First, there is variable RydHQ_KnowTL. Adding RydHQ_KnowTL = false tu HAC config will turn off revealing, but only for human controlled Team leaders, so probably not help. To disable this for all you need to do as follows:

1. for testing use script version.

2. In this version's files find "Rev" sqf for used Leader(s)

3. Open this file in some editor or notepad.

Code looks like this:

if (isNil ("RydHQ_KnowTL")) then {RydHQ_KnowTL = true};

while {(true)} do
{
waituntil {sleep 1; not (isNil ("RydHQ_KnEnemies"))};
sleep 20;
_players = [];
if (RydHQ_KnowTL) then 
	{
		{
		if (isPlayer (leader _x)) then {_players = _players + [_x]};
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends;
	};
for [{_z = 0},{_z < (count RydHQ_KnEnemies)},{_z = _z + 1}] do
	{
	_KnU = RydHQ_KnEnemies select _z;
		{
		if ((_x knowsAbout _KnU) >= 0.01) then {{_x reveal _KnU} foreach ([RydHQ] + _players)}
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends
	};
for [{_z = 0},{_z < (count RydHQ_Friends)},{_z = _z + 1}] do
	{
	_KnU = RydHQ_Friends select _z;
		{
		{_x reveal (vehicle (leader _KnU))} foreach ([RydHQ] + _players)
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends
	}
};

Replace this code with this one (copy and paste over current code):

if (isNil ("RydHQ_KnowTL")) then {RydHQ_KnowTL = true};
/*	
while {(true)} do
{
waituntil {sleep 1; not (isNil ("RydHQ_KnEnemies"))};
sleep 20;
_players = [];
if (RydHQ_KnowTL) then 
	{
		{
		if (isPlayer (leader _x)) then {_players = _players + [_x]};
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends;
	};
for [{_z = 0},{_z < (count RydHQ_KnEnemies)},{_z = _z + 1}] do
	{
	_KnU = RydHQ_KnEnemies select _z;
		{
		if ((_x knowsAbout _KnU) >= 0.01) then {{_x reveal _KnU} foreach ([RydHQ] + _players)}
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends
	};
for [{_z = 0},{_z < (count RydHQ_Friends)},{_z = _z + 1}] do
	{
	_KnU = RydHQ_Friends select _z;
		{
		{_x reveal (vehicle (leader _KnU))} foreach ([RydHQ] + _players)
		}
	foreach RydHQ_Friends
	}
};

*/

This will turn off all reveal routine.

4. Play with so prepared script version and see, if blindness is still present, or maybe disappeared...

But this affects only Leader's and players knowledge... Also must to analyze this code, seems, like there is some mistake (redundant and useless last foreach).

Edited February 20, 2012 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1302]

Also, if someone want to investigate more deeply, here is some small and handy debug tool, that I just wrote for this purpose:

_KA = 0;
_en = objNull;
_in = "";
_i = "";

{
_LU = leader _x;
_ne = _LU findNearestEnemy (vehicle _LU);
if not (isNull _ne) then {_KA = _LU knowsAbout _ne} else {_KA = 0};
_in = "markKA" + str (_x);
_i = createMarker [_in,position (vehicle _LU)];
_i setMarkerColor "ColorBlack";
_i setMarkerShape "ICON";
_i setMarkerSize [0.1,0.1];
_i setMarkerType "DOT";
_i setMarkerText (" - " + (str _KA));
}
foreach AllGroups;


while {(true)} do
{
sleep 1;
	{
	_LU = leader _x;
	_ne = _LU findNearestEnemy (vehicle _LU);
	if not (isNull _ne) then {_KA = _LU knowsAbout _ne} else {_KA = 0};
	_i = "markKA" + str (_x);
	_i setMarkerPos (position (vehicle _LU));
	_i setMarkerText (" - " + (str _KA));
	}
foreach AllGroups;
}

This shows on map refreshed every second markers, that indicates "knowledge" value about nearest known enemy for each group (0 is uknown, 4 is max value). To use this, make above code a sqf file, eg KAM.sqf, put that file into mission folder and execute same way as HAC script version, by nul = [] execVM "KAM.sqf"; in init.sqf or some init field.

I'm curios, what values will show this for "blinded" groups...

Of course this tool may be used for any other purpose too, but KAM (KnowsAbout Monitor) is only makeshift tool, so will not delete markers of destroyed groups and will not generate markers for groups spawned after executing of this script.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Rydygier

[humvee28 10]

Sorry if i have overseen something, but what do you mean with "blinded" Groups?

[Rydygier 1302]

It is strange issue reporting by some HAC users. Quote Jingle:

I am still encountering issues with units not engaging. I am thinking it is because I have a lot of ai running around the map and the cyclic patterns of the orders and multiple scripts running causing this issue. One example being a Scorpion patrol encountering a militia patrol and ignoring them.

Like something blinded some units...

[humvee28 10]

Ok, will keep an Eye on it (haven´t seen this Issue myself till now).

[Jingle 0]

Good effort matey running the kam.sqf atm with myscenario - nothing come up as yet, however it is not as if the units dont know about the enemy its more the unwillingness to open fire on them - I had the same scenario with HAC first time around when my strykert drove past a load of enemy groups only to be fired upon much later on, seems to be selective fire orders (which may be nothing at all to do with HAC - possibly something to do as you said with the changes in ai since 1.60) however will help you as much as I can - just a question are any of the commands given out by the commander HOLD or NEVER fire?. Anyhow will debug as much as I can to help resolve this issue.

[Rydygier 1302]

just a question are any of the commands given out by the commander HOLD or NEVER fire?

Is not used SendSimplyCommand "cease fire". "Blue" (never fire) waypoint mode is set only for support missions; also in Arma 1.10 I tested blue mode for withdrawing infantry and they still was shooting at enemy, only not so willingly. More often is used green mode (defend only - should not fire first, but should fire back; in withdrawing, non-combat recon, rest, main flanking maneuver before last stage...). HOLD waypoint is used only once, for AI Leader's unit to prevent changing position.

[katipo66 94]

I'm sure (but not 100%) ive seen the no engage issue before without HAC, troopmon2 is a great tool for debugging, its an easy mod to use which allows you to view all units infantry/vehicle/Armour/air and shows behavior and waypoint types etc.

I think the issue with mech crews abandoning apc's is because the vehicle has taken damage, ive observed a bit off their behavior and mostly they seem to do a great job of disembarking and supporting APC'S

I'm getting awesome gameplay with this and all from the simple 2 commander option and with half the units used in the more complex demo.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Katipo66

[orcinus 121]

Of course this tool may be used for any other purpose too, but KAM (KnowsAbout Monitor) is only makeshift tool, so will not delete markers of destroyed groups and will not generate markers for groups spawned after executing of this script.

Heh, that could be the basis for just the script I need to enable a leader to call in reinforcements when in danger of being over-run. Easier than the way I've been attempting (a trigger area round the leader activated by the ratio of known enemies [the old Kn parameter] to friendly units, with extracting the numbers etc. being a bit tricky with my limited skills). Better to use a script.

Won't have much time for testing in the next week, however; still averaging 14-hour workdays on major project.

BR

Orcinus

[Rydygier 1302]

If this is usable for you, then I'm glad. If there is needed only certain number of enemies in certain radius, then trigger is easiest way, but if there is needed given sum of knowledge about hostiles, then method will be a bit more tricky. My script gives Kn value only for one, closest enemy per group (and this may be same hostile unit for many allies), I'm not sure, if this is sufficient data.

BTW I'm curious about effect of some tests, that I will make right away - what if to place close each other two enemy groups, all with manually set blue or green mode... Theroretically shouldn't open fire at all... Also I wonder if there is some difference between A2 1.10 and OA 1.60 in this case...

[orcinus 121]

If this is usable for you, then I'm glad. If there is needed only certain number of enemies in certain radius, then trigger is easiest way, but if there is needed given sum of knowledge about hostiles, then method will be a bit more tricky. My script gives Kn value only for one, closest enemy per group (and this may be same hostile unit for many allies), I'm not sure, if this is sufficient data. .

Ah, I didn't now that the Kn parameter sums observations in a way that one enemy may be counted several times. Hmm. Actually, losses could be a better route, especially if the casualty rate starts to climb consistently relative to known kills (are those counted? Are they / could they be reported to the leaders?). I need to think about this sometime when I don't have the dreaded lonely axon syndrome :eek:

[abdel 1]

Reason may be as follows:

- was not injuried seriously enough (they call for ambulance when there is such support in 500 meters radius (and even not necessary to know about, this is default Arma AI behaviour) and when damage is > 0.5 or when soldier can not stand (legs damage 1.0); so also only for this or greater damage ambulance will be sent. This is most probably here, try to add this code to init field of given unit: this setdamage 0.6 and check then;

- was injuried enough, but ambulance was busy in other area;

- some time passes before support mission is issued...

---------- Post added at 23:14 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------

Oh. There is no need to add into RHQs classnames of units, that are generic in pure Arma 2 1.10, only others (OA, CO, BAF, user maded and so on). This should make no difference however.

I've made a very simple mission, A commander + me and 1 unit within my group + Medevac Humvee.

Also I sat the damage to 0.6 to that unit in my group, nothing happens the commander send the Humvee to a waypoint "Res A".

I'm using ACE, does it affect this process?

[Jingle 0]

Just tested with the KAM.sqf:

There doesnt seem to be a problem with the knows about of any unit I have encountered with this script, from various areas i have plotted round the map I did notice that the AI were often unsure what to do, example on an airfield was a mechanised Bradleuy infantry unit whom disembarked (including the crew) there was a mexican stand off between that unit and a takistan army grenadier at about 20 metres, a crewman and the takistani soldier were aiming at each other (Knows about 4 btw), then the rest of the squad remounted the bradley which moved about 40 m directly away from the soldier (at this point the stand off was still occuring). Then there was a hail of cannon rounds from the bradley and the takistan soldier was no more. Maybe im thinking it is more to do with the new command behaviour to do with vehicles rather than the HAC, btw great tool and ty for the support so far ryd, will carry on debugging for ya.

Oh and finally - I may have made a bit of an error with unit types (meaning the scorpion patrol) as the patrol was Independant - not opfor - my mistake and hands up on that one. Oh and the fact I had the unit type arrays listed before the RYD_DEBUG etc etc part of the config seemed to cause a few problems on my behalf (my fault soz) that part is sorted now.

Thx again Ryd - you are a machine dude:)