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Beagle

"Tab" targeting issues

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Allmost all armed vehicles in ArmA use "tab" lock and targeting. This won't change anymore, no matter how bad this kind of target aquisition is. Since we have to live with it there should be at least a tweaked behaviour to the "radar". Currently we are able o lock and fire upon "unknown" yellow contatcs... of course we know that yellow "unknown" contacts we can lock on with "tab" are always enemy contacts because we technically can't lock on unknown but friendly contacs with tab.

Suggestion: Remove tab lock for all unidentified (yellow on radar) objects.

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Allmost all armed vehicles in ArmA use "tab" lock and targeting. This won't change anymore, no matter how bad this kind of target aquisition is. Since we have to live with it there should be at least a tweaked behaviour to the "radar". Currently we are able o lock and fire upon "unknown" yellow contatcs... of course we know that yellow "unknown" contacts we can lock on with "tab" are always enemy contacts because we technically can't lock on unknown but friendly contacs with tab.

Suggestion: Remove tab lock for all unidentified (yellow on radar) objects.

Counter suggestion: enable tab locking on all unknown targets.

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Counter suggestion: enable tab locking on all unknown targets.
That's also better compared to what we have currently! Edited by Beagle

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You can disable tab-locking by several methods. Kju has script-only methods, ACE has config methods.

Mando might have both, unsure.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 ----------

Counter suggestion: enable tab locking on all unknown targets.
This is rather a nice method too

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i have a better solution:

Learn how to play without TAB,i did it and it works :D

Yeah but I did not have you and your Kh-29 blind fire technique at base buildings in mind... really.

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LOOOOOOL No one will change anything in arma2.

Btw PR have tab removed.

Watching A3 videos I found same (TAB to LOCK) system already implemented :) May be we can rename TAB button to BIS button ? Joking...

I offered many many many solutions - do you want 1 more ?

Ok here is 1 more.If you read some articles about weapons you can notice that static target can be locked easier than others.

So this is compromise idea.

Keep lock on static targets only and remove from moving with decreasing speed to rockets give more chance for pilots guide rocket with mouse.

We can keep current system for cadets only.

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with decreasing speed to rockets give more chance for pilots guide rocket with mouse.

this is why this solution should be abandonned

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Tab lock has advantages. Eg when you are commanding a tank, or any vehicle for that matter, it is much easier to get the AI gunner to target a specific target using TAB than it it to go through the F2+2+0+2 (for Eg).

I'm pretty sure this is why it was implemented in the first place. The fact that you can solo in an KA52 an spam guided AT missiles is a negative side affect. Well, not even really a negative to me, but I can see how it would make the gunships etc way too powerful/unfair in PVP. I used to think it was a difficulty option, but I don't think it is. It would be nice if people has the option to disable it.

But I don't think its a good idea to get rid of it totally due to my first statement^

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Watching A3 videos I found same (TAB to LOCK) system already implemented :)

Although i dont know if TAB will be in A3 final i hope though you do understand most of A2 is still present under the hood of A3 when videos were done. For example most animations/animation system is still there, however that doesnt mean it will be there when A3 is released as BIS said that will change.

Im hoping for a better solution myself of course, but we will see.

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this is why this solution should be abandonned

go to youtube and look how fast guided rockets flying...

I understand that's most kids wants cadet game full of cheats and exploits.

TAB-FIRE-TAB-FIRE-TAB-FIRE

That's why programers implemented difficulty levels long time ago :)

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Different guided missiles fly at different speeds. Some are supersonic. Slowing them down to unrealistic speeds is not the answer.

Most of the problem is that for these systems, there is usually more involved to setting up the missiles to fire than just selecting a weapon, locking, and firing. The airborne TOW system itself is quite complicated. Most of these systems can't track multiple targets at once.

I think having the missiles track to your current target, whatever that may be, would be better. This combined with longer reload times would help out the slower firing missiles, like the wire guided ones where you need to cut the wires before you fire again.

There is a lot more that is problematic as well. Most missile systems I think have certain pre and post launch constraints. IRL, you have a narrow corridor for SACLOS systems in general. For laser systems there is backscattering problems and problems with missile vs. laser energy orientation. I think locking in general should take longer.

The current system is suitable for something like the longbow fire control radar. Tab, fire spamming with that is more realistic, since it can track and prioritize many targets. The actual details of locking, firing, and the like of this system, I know nothing about.

Edited by Max Power

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Why not just put in Javelin delay on locking?
I don't know why not but the lock delay is only for a few missiles in game...but you can lock more then missiles in ArmA with Tab.

Dragon, Metis and TOW and NLAW have instant lock.

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Do those weapons seriously have tab lock capability even with difficulty "Auto Guided AT" disabled? I can't remember.

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In today's military we have systems where a pilot can simply look at another plane outside of the boresight area and lock that vehicle with the flick of a switch so it's entirely possible that in 30 years that kind of "Tab targeting" would be available for many different weapons systems and platforms.

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Do those weapons seriously have tab lock capability even with difficulty "Auto Guided AT" disabled? I can't remember.
Yes they do...you don't need to tab of course...just point and shoot, autolock does the rest.

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

In today's military we have systems where a pilot can simply look at another plane outside of the boresight area and lock that vehicle with the flick of a switch so it's entirely possible that in 30 years that kind of "Tab targeting" would be available for many different weapons systems and platforms.
We are talking about 2011 and 2014 timeframe...this is ArmA II section not ArmA III SciFi section.

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..this is ArmA II section not ArmA III SciFi section.

Have I told you how much I like you Beagle?

:)

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Get your head out of the past and search how modern/future targeting and cueing system do/can work.

Yes CO/A3 is not an Ubersimulation - BIS simplified things for the sake of gameplay. Or do you really think that flying close to Mach 1 over BIS islands last long enough to go through all procedures and switches via mouse/keyboard clicky?

Its just a huge difference if you are in an vehicle or if you have to use keyboard/mouse controllers + monitors/tiny screens to mimikry reality.

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Or do you really think that flying close to Mach 1 over BIS islands last long enough to go through all procedures and switches via mouse/keyboard clicky?

Yes I think If I drive column with 10 tanks and someone lock and kill me out of optical view just pressing 10 times it is exploit bug or cheat what ever you called and broken game play.It is not only mine opinion.Problem that people who writing on forums and who playing actual game abit different.

People who playing game try game found bugs and erase from hdd check other game.People who write on forums looks like only write on forums - not playing at all :)

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also idea how to simply implement locking system:

For vet mod only

Keep TAB to lock target only to identify it but rocket should follow mouse cursor ,pilot should switch on in free-view mode (* on numpad) and using mouse guide rocket until it hit target.

It not required graphic changing only coding.Additional chat and time delay welcome.

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also idea how to simply implement locking system:

For vet mod only

Keep TAB to lock target only to identify it but rocket should follow mouse cursor ,pilot should switch on in free-view mode (* on numpad) and using mouse guide rocket until it hit target.

It not required graphic changing only coding.Additional chat and time delay welcome.

Oh god, not this shit again.

So fire and forget missiles, for example: radar guided hellfires would somehow be better/more realistic if you have to optically guide them to the target?

We already had this derp fest of "lol optically guide all the things! its moar real!!!", please lets not do it again...

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So fire and forget missiles, for example: radar guided hellfires would somehow be better/more realistic if you have to optically guide them to the target?

.

go to youtube write hellfire in searchbox watch videos and AFTER THAT tell which system is more realistic

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go to youtube write hellfire in searchbox watch videos and AFTER THAT tell which system is more realistic

I don't base my knowledge on youtube thanks ;)

The Longbow radar/FCS presents the gunner with a list of targets, prioritised by threat. He just picks the one he wants to fire missiles at, then fires ze missiles. Very much like the tab-lock system (except tab-lock doesn't prioritise)

I'll re-quote:

please lets not do it again...

Manually guided missiles should be manually guided.

Fire and forget missiles should be fire and forget.

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