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Cookieeater

Make grass near player transparent when prone

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People in real life can easily see through grass when hiding because they have 2 eyes. Inside ArmA II they can't because technically everyone is a cyclops. With 2 eyes that are at slightly different distances, one eye can see what the other can't.

This picture is a good example if you have viewed stereo photography before:

x-ray.jpg

The only game that has kind of compensated for it is Battlefield Vietnam where grass near player becomes transparent. It would be much more realistic for people going prone to see through the grass, they'd be more like ambushers instead of sitting ducks.

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And here we go again :-)

Aren't here on the forums already enough topics about grass and how it should be "fixed"?

Don't get me wrong, i am not against your idea entirely, but my personal experience of sneaking around in high grass in RL is little different - whether you can see something depends not only on your mono vs. stereo vision, but also on the character of the grass and its density which plays the most important role.

And usualy, the grass is dense enough to obstruct your view like it is in game now.

When speaking about 5 straws just in front of your face, then yes, you are right, you should be able to see "around" it.

But if we are speaking about area full of grass, then no, no way you could be able to see anything except just grass from your prone position.

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If you end up like sitting ducks during an ambush, then something is very wrong about that ambush plan :p Like, failure to see grass as an obstacle to consider, and failure not to overcome it by choosing a different location.

I don't mind high grass in Chernarus, in fact I want it, but I would like more tactical possibilities to get around it. So that when coming to a location, you can study the grass and deliberately avoid areas of high grass, and choose avenues of approach where you can actually shoot back. Overwatch positions are made a bit too difficult, since hills tend to always be covered with dense trees and tree crowns that block your view.

In Takistan (and Utes), grass doesn't pose a problem at all.

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Hi, to fight with the game's tall grass there's a great mod that actualy makes it better and reduces the performance hit.

- GDT Mod Grass.

The problem with fireback when prone... it's the eye placement; you don't (in the game) rise your weapon to the shoulder and then move the head a bit down to paste your face to the weapon's stock as you would IRL; in the game... you place your eye (when aiming) too lower instead raise your weapon to aim/see above the grass.

Make the grass transparent arround the player wouldn't fix anything as you gonna shoot at distant targets more likely, that mod is the better way of deal with the game's grass as we can't fix how you aim (where you put your weapon for aim down the sights) as that will require a total redo of all the animations related to the weapons aiming or almost 'em all. Let's C ya

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If you end up like sitting ducks during an ambush, then something is very wrong about that ambush plan :p Like, failure to see grass as an obstacle to consider, and failure not to overcome it by choosing a different location.

I don't mind high grass in Chernarus, in fact I want it, but I would like more tactical possibilities to get around it. So that when coming to a location, you can study the grass and deliberately avoid areas of high grass, and choose avenues of approach where you can actually shoot back. Overwatch positions are made a bit too difficult, since hills tend to always be covered with dense trees and tree crowns that block your view.

In Takistan (and Utes), grass doesn't pose a problem at all.

the problem is you can't position your character just right at the edge of a root, a grassless patch of dirt, or pat the grass down slight or elevate your body slighty. so the grass is indeed a problem.

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Is transparency doable in this engine? Or is it just really expensive? Because the first thing that needs to be transparent are the ghost rings on the irons sights of American guns.

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This is a problem but I don't like the idea with transparent grass. Instead I'd be ok with a button making your player get rid of the grass just in front of you, like it is now when crawling. It would also be good if you could push away a few branches and textures on bushes with the same button.

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A miniature grasscutter object would be suitable for this. Place via action for anyone, and script makes it last for about a minute. I'm using the larger grasscutter now, but not everyone can use it (only asst gunners, making them more useful) to "prep a firing position", which also comes with a lowered hesco wall for simple protection.

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Rather than making it transparent, adding shallow DoF when aiming would definitely solve this

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Excellent point, Cookieeater!

And yes, making it semi-transparent would be the most desirable solution.

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Small amounts of lean while prone would help too. Just a small POV shift, either with the TrackIR lean or the lean keys.

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The AI can see perfectly in grass, it isn't fair for the player to be at such an obvious disadvantage. It can 'see' and shoot through hospital tents too.

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Doesnt making grass transparent feel strange and unnatural to you?

First of all it would be semi-transparent. Second - making the grass semi-trans. is reaching for a relatively simple solution, and solution that would work. Now put your finger close to your eyes and look at something a hundred meters away. Magic! :p

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i would see that working for sure! its just my personal taste that says me it would appear odd

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Certainly not 100% how you see IRL but, as I said, it's the solution that is available. Besides, there's at least one game out there that has semi-transparent grass.

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The AI can see perfectly in grass, it isn't fair for the player to be at such an obvious disadvantage. It can 'see' and shoot through hospital tents too.

As we all know hospital tents are concrete and can't be shot through. Please BIS fix this!

Just like bushes! I mean I shoot at AI, then run behind the bush and AI shoots me through that bush! It's unrealistic!

First of all it would be semi-transparent. Second - making the grass semi-trans. is reaching for a relatively simple solution, and solution that would work. Now put your finger close to your eyes and look at something a hundred meters away. Magic! :p

Now put a hand behind that finger. Wow you can see "through" the finger but can't see through the hand 5 cm away! Making grass near your eyes transparent surely will change things.

Edited by metalcraze

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Maybe Anti-Aliasing + ATOC improves that issue? That'll still mean we'll have to use high end PC to use that advantage.

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As we all know hospital tents are concrete and can't be shot through. Please BIS fix this!

Just like bushes! I mean I shoot at AI, then run behind the bush and AI shoots me through that bush! It's unrealistic!

Heh, maybe it's me but I'm seeing a more-than-average number of posts that cannot comprehend AI prediction/ knowledge in any other way than "cheat" :D

Now put a hand behind that finger. Wow you can see "through" the finger but can't see through the hand 5 cm away! Making grass near your eyes transparent surely will change things.

I think the notion is that making nearby grass semi-transparent is a cheap way to simulate you being able to see around grass due to either micro-head movements or binocular view. I'm in favour.

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I think the notion is that making nearby grass semi-transparent is a cheap way to simulate you being able to see around grass due to either micro-head movements or binocular view. I'm in favour.

Yup. Nothing more, nothing else. No brainer.

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Rather than making it transparent, adding shallow DoF when aiming would definitely solve this

I´d prefer to see this implemented.

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I´d prefer to see this implemented.

I think I missed that. What is shallow DoF?

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Heh, maybe it's me but I'm seeing a more-than-average number of posts that cannot comprehend AI prediction/ knowledge in any other way than "cheat" :D

I think the problem is due to people getting used to console shooters way too much. You know that kind where if your character has a direct view on enemy - you are exposed, however the moment the character is behind some non-transparent object no matter what it is - it's a 100% safety.

ArmA just breaks their world.

I think the notion is that making nearby grass semi-transparent is a cheap way to simulate you being able to see around grass due to either micro-head movements or binocular view. I'm in favour.

Except if they will make a grass near you transparent - you will just see more grass behind it which is my point.

And the moment you go making transparent anything further than what's close to your nose - is the moment you lose any kind of realism, not mentioning that it will look silly and you will have even more people complaining about this visual bug.

If AI really saw through the grass all the time nobody would've been able to play the game normally. - the problem lies within the grass being too hard for some people that don't want to learn to play. I'm not saying that AI sees what we see of course and there are some things where its "eyes" can be superior - BUT

It can be shocking especially to OFP/ArmA1 players where "prone" position was player's ultimate Cheat of Doom as that instantly made you barely visible to AI (just like it is now) while you still were able to see the AI just as well (I, of course, too had a really hard time adapting at first when AA2 came out)

This problem is greatly seen on Takistan where in a prone position in a grass you alone can easily wipe out half of AI squad before they even spot you and will be able to do anything to you.

Edited by metalcraze

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