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Thread: Small AI tweaks for great effect

  1. #21

    Thumbs up I concur.

    Giving my team the "crouch" command NEVER seems to work. (in my experience).

    Giving them the "copy my posture" command only works if you, as the leader, go prone. Otherwise, they just stand around like usual, unless you put them into "danger" or "stealth" modes, obviously.

    I'm relatively new so this is just based on my limited experience.
    "Time travel; all ya want to do is slap a few hippies, but all you end up with is multiple Kiowalskys!" -Skipper, Penguins of Madagascar

  2. #22
    Is there already a ticket for this (or similar issues) on devheaven? I've searched, but no appropriate results were given.

    The game really needs improvements on this. Played a stealth mission today and the AI got me killed so much that I canceled the mission, cause it was no fun anymore. It is so much annoying to see the AI make no use of the stance possibilities they have. Sure, you could force them to crouch or prone, but that decreases the mobility of the team and in case of a emergency situation (like getting detected or the need to extract fast) you have to change the behaviour and the stance position (and this costs valuable time).
    I don't understand and wonder why the devs don't see these problems. This thread exists now more than a half year and there have only been slight changes to the behaviour modes (nearly none, or just related to bounding overwatch). Even that the community isn't more demanding to get this issues solved is confusing me . Are they all playing solely combat situations/scenarios? I don't believe that.

    I have to say leading an AI squad has gotten more complex than in good ol' OFP days, where the behaviour modes had a real impact on the real behaviour of the AIs. It's a shame to see such a backstep still persisting in such a great game.

    I know AI programming is difficult but since there already are different modes in the behaviour, it can't be that hard to swap the priorities/stance preferences between those modes.

  3. #23
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    You need to hunt down in the mods complete section Gibbets "Copy My Stance" addon ... this will force your team to copy stance always & works like a charm, i never run the game without it (SP). It also has key options to switch it on and off, and if you dont tell your team or men to do any other stance they will always be following your posture.

    EDIT:

    Here you go:

    http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=107058

    So when your men do not follow setting copy my stance from the menu with this on, will force them to always copy you. Sometimes you may have to stand and crouch to get them to do so (rare) but 99 percent works fine.

    For example if you set them aware and your are crouched behind a tree, then send a scout team, they will scoot crouched and running nice and fast. Any mode will force them to still copy you (especially when they become stationary). You can still tell them another stance so certain ones wont copy you, you then set them to copy my stance again and they will fall back in line.

    I would have to agree that current AI stances and modes can render certain AI to think for themselves sometimes and it really needs to be like this addon for vanilla, but ... this works.

    When I'm playing I still don't get the difference between stealth and danger mode

    BTW BIS desctiption of combat modes:

    Combat Mode

    This menu configures the behaviour of your squad members whilst on the move. Also, you have the option to determine which stance they should try and keep.

    • Safe - Your squad moves very quickly. Ignores cover whilst moving often opting to take roads and paths and will not be on the lookout for enemy units
    • Aware default - Your squad moves quickly. Will stick loosely to cover sometimes taking roads and paths and will be looking out for enemy units
    • Stealth - Your squad moves very slowly. Moving strictly from cover to cover in a bounding fashion, one group will stop to cover whilst one group advances, the squad should spend a lot of time in the prone position
    • Danger - Your squad moves slowly. Moving strictly from cover to cover in a bounding fashion, one group will stop to cover whilst one group advances
    • Stand Up - Your squad will stay stood up. Useful for traversing long distances on foot
    • Stay Crouched - Your squad will remain in the crouched position. Useful for close quarters combat, featuring plenty of cover
    • Go Prone - Your squad will stick to the prone position. Useful for quiet movement or long range and low cover engagements
    • Keep Low - Your squad matches your current stance
    Last edited by mrcash2009; Dec 5 2010 at 12:31.

    SICK OF IDIOTS & STEAM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by LeadCommando65 View Post
    Are they all playing solely combat situations/scenarios? I don't believe that.
    Nope!

    Some valid points and I guess we all hope that BIS someday will return to improving the AI.

    Not a proper solution but I suggest you to look into VAC (see sig). The past weeks I've been working on and fix my old A1 VAC-profile and adapted it to A2:OA. Great program and it sure makes commanding your AI teammates more pleasant playing sneaky SP missions.

    /KC
    Last edited by KeyCat; Dec 5 2010 at 14:16.
    >> The journey is the reward! <<

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    I use Pilflus (profile is in my sig) but this is XP only it seems, some complain issues with vista and wont work with win7.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    Gibbets "Copy My Stance" addon ...
    Nice addon, but this would only partly solve the issue.

    The point is that AIs need to change their stance individually and intelligently. Since there is the bounding overwatch feature, where the AIs are moving one after another to make an approach, every unit needs to change their stance independently, appropriate to the "local" situation given. I wont repeat what the thread starter already has laid out. These changes would resolve the issues everyone should be experiencing. But it seems most people don't notice or found backdoors to undergo that issue (like the addon you mentioned), since I don't feel that there is enough feedback on this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    BTW BIS desctiption of combat modes:
    Yeah, the description sounds good, but in reality it's not like that. You see some of those points in approach, but for example the stances taken by the AIs aren't adequate.
    Last edited by LeadCommando65; Dec 5 2010 at 14:46.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcash2009 View Post
    I use Pilflus (profile is in my sig) but this is XP only it seems, some complain issues with vista and wont work with win7.
    Thanks for reminding me of the free alternative and you actually made me update my long overdue signature as well

    Will try out the latest version of Gibbets "Copy My Stance" addon (had some issues with his first one) but still wishes for improvements in stock A2...

    /KC
    Last edited by KeyCat; Dec 5 2010 at 14:03.

  8. #28
    Second Lieutenant mrcash2009's Avatar
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    I have to confess going back to the OFP I realised i had this thread mixed up with another that has a very similar title with "tips" on using AI ... so yes what I posted may help but isnt directed to the OP, sorry, my confusion.

  9. #29
    I am glad this thread has generated some attention. Like many others I believe the default AI is on the conceptual level a rather capable opponent, its failure lay mainly in the individual AIs execution of said tactics/plans.

    Unnecessary exposure, lack of noise discipline, and unwillingness to exercise tactical patience gets more AI soldiers killed than strictly necessary. It is my firm belief that it is possible to greatly enhance its (the AIs) tactical expertise by introducing some simple—yet harsher rules of engagements as presented in the original post.

    Being written in pre-BAF days, the Original post itself is somewhat dated. As of 1.56 there are subtle changes in how the AI handles itself mostly for the better. Even so many of the tweaks and concerns presented by myself and other posters are still quite relevant


    Persistent squad issues in arma2
    :: Atrocious pathfinding
    :: Bounding Overwatch often renders the squad combat ineffective
    :: Ineffective ROE changes (stealth doesn’t make the squad stealthy)
    :: AI teammembers incapable of following human TL up or down certain slopes etc
    :: Cumbersome user interface
    etc


    The original post probably deserves to be updated.


    Thanks,
    -k
    ARMA 2 Mission packs:LITE Coop mission package + LIMA coop mission package (ACE + ACRE) + More ACE + ACRE missions. + Aliabad coop Mission Package+ Fireforce Takistan NEW
    ARMA 3 Mission packs:Fourplay Coop Mission Pack NEW
    Kill things, break stuff. Repeat as necessary.

  10. #30
    The AI should be taught to see the Field of View (sight cone) of dangerous threats that they "knows about". For example, if the group was patrolling down a street when they get ambushed by a vehicle with a heavy machine gun covering the street they are in, they should factor in the view cone (field of view) when they are recalculating their positions and pathways. They should avoid the view cone of the threat and their behavior should move them out of it if they sense they are caught in it.


    Initially they seem to respond fairly well to the discovery of the ambush, they usually, but not always, move to the sides of the street and try and make use of corners and walls for cover. However, what they do next is what will ultimately get them all killed.

    Once the alarm-response is finished, they start "micromanaging" themselves, moving and repositioning themselves oblivious to the kill-zone that the street has become... minor AI adjustment behaviors see the AI moving back into the view cone of dangerous enemies where they promptly get machine gunned down.

    When AI are picking and plotting their navigation nodes, they should detect when a Node is covered by the View Cone of an enemy and then treat it as invalid... a new conditional branch of their FSM should dictate what to do when this happens. For example, AI that become "trapped" because their only valid node is covered by an enemy FOV, should call out that they are trapped ("I'm pinned down, help!"), they should then deal with the invalid node if they can.... other allied AI should suppress the enemy covering the Node with gun fire to free the trapped trooper, or toss smoke on the node to block enemy view cones, then move through it and not stop on it.

    Sometimes I think in the effort to make the AI as human as possible in both behavior and response.... they end up being even more robotic then ever. I think this is one of those situations...

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