[60141] AI formation - Thoughts ...

[mrcash2009]

Hi,

I notice the most recent deals with more AI formation control. So it prompted me to post a thread on this.

I still notice that after using latest patch I get (still get) the following (and im not suggesting patch has made things worse BTW) ..

1. If Im walking ahead steady and change formation on-the-fly, AI shift into formation well enough.

2. If Im walking and then change formation, and then turn 90 degrees AI will still bunch up and wont shift into there places at all well while walking. Unless I stop still. Then AI will auto think "oops quick into formation" and start jostling for position. If I then move before they all get into position some out of formation will start to follow and not find thier spot while walking .. I stop, and finally those will slot into place.

So .. is there a way, and was the patch supposed to help so doesn't take the leader to stop still each time and wait until they all slot into place for them to work things out?

Its as if AI cant force themselves to find positions as smooth as when leader (me) is walking straight, when turning they then need a "stop and wait for them to work it out moment".

What do others think of this?

[Fireball]

Well, they do adjust after you walk on for a while, it just takes longer

And for some soldiers it's impossible to get into the new formation since they cannot/should not run faster to catch up next or ahead of you for the new postition - do you want an outpowered soldier in the battle just for the sake of a formation change while running?

[the_shadow]

i got another formation related "wish" for future patch...

would it be possible to make the AI soldiers trying to keep formation even in battle?
so they DONT run away 300m ahead of you and the other soldiers..
or the entire squad dispersing into a 500x500m area getting killed..
thats just not very realistic..

if they could try to keep within say 20m from the squad mates and trying to stay somewhat in formation (but still moving from cover to cover ofcourse) it would feel a lot better..

AI fighting in formation, now THAT would be realistic and challanging.

[vasmkd]

How about a "stay close under any circumstance" command

[SAbre4809]

What I notice about the formations is,

1. when you make a 'return to formation' command it orientates the squad in the direction you are looking(good).

2.Then While moving forward, say north they constantly orientate towards that direction, if you then turn right to head east they are still orientated north (good imo), but while you continue walking the orientation slowly changes to east(proportional to distance moved, so run=fast change, walk=slow.

3. Then if you stop dead, they seem to sometimes keep orientation but sometimes change to face somewhere else, where and why and don't know(bad).

No. 3 changing/being fixed would be awesome as it really iritates me when I am approaching a enemy position in the woods(close contact) and stop to check things out, check flanks etc, then they go and turn to face somewhere else say 90 deg right and the guy on the far left of the formation is now MUCH closer than I wanted him to be and potentially dead in seconds, while the other side are further and my line or wedge hasd turned into a file, but as soon as I move they try get back again.

[Alex72]

I would also like AI in your squad that are in a couple of vehicles to stay together. Ordering your AI into 3 cars where you drive the first will leave the other 2 to their fate lol. If you drive real slow they can catch up, but not if you floor it (or drive with normal speed "W"). The second car manages to keep on a little better than the third wich usually gets lost all the time.

I guess there is no easy solution to this though. Wouldnt really want magical "catch up" system. Hope there will be some improvements around all this though as the game is really getting good.

[ACF]

If formations are too rigidly enforced the group is going to look too artificial. To counteract the bunching on formation/direction changes, perhaps it would help to:
i) delay the response a bit to give a unit more time to 'think' where it needs to be.
ii) during this pause, units kneel or lie down, not stand and shuffle. This is especially relevant to those on the inside flank of the turn.
From the simulation point of view, confusion and loss of formation is a realistic consequence of formation/direction changes: random wandering gets punished, planning and forethought get rewarded.

Regarding the_shadow's comment on units breaking formation: I do wonder if the 'engage at will' logic is a bit too aggressive compared to 'engage'.

Am I reading this right:

[60129] Fixed: AI subordinates now move faster (use less cover) to catch up when leader is way ahead of them.

The 'suicidal leader' fix is to make the rest of the group more suicidal? Not quite what I had in mind (Bug 2171 > 2551) but it is an improvement.

[walker]

Hi all

For the record IMHO the AI maintains formation better than humans. In MP most leaders do not give Line Of March (LOM) often enough. At each waypoint and change of direction the leader should issue the new LOM. The need to pause when changing LOM is as others have said simulated by the AI in the time it takes to change formation. I will say that humans keep up better some of the time, except when they seem to daydream, though their ability to maintain actual formation is sketchy. A Gap in the line is a very human action even with the the map and a marker system. I think the real problem with most human players is a failure to understand the concept of the line.

For AI
Judicious use of the "Aware" and "Danger" states helps maintain formation. If you need the AI to move quickly to formation set them to aware. To counter act the increased risk from using "Aware" in contact tell the AI to "Stay Crouched" after it. Then go back to "Danger".

As a leader tell the AI to advance. It stops you from being the suicidal leader. if you have a large force of AI split them into two groups so you have tactical flexibility. Widening your line by telling one group to flank a couple of times reduces the effectiness of enemy cover, but as always do as the tactical situation and topology of the ground demands.

Kind Regards walker

[AnimalMother92]

zGuba's gameplay mods fix this pretty much. it has a feature that makes squads stick together even under combat w/o looking artificial. but a real BIS fix would be nice too

[Mr_Centipede]

zGuba's gameplay mods fix this pretty much. it has a feature that makes squads stick together even under combat w/o looking artificial. but a real BIS fix would be nice too

True to that... if the reason the AI is moving all over the place, thats because the AI leader issuing engage/attack command. So that means his AI subordinate will break formation and find a 'better' firing position.

What zGuba did was using enableAttack false, so the AI will not issue engage command, unless by some calculations the odds for engaging is good, then the AI leader will have enableAttack true again.