The "Love for Details" suggestion-thread

I know of course that they are not mandatory in game-play therms, but really nice anyway and since Arma1 really was lacking of them.

And so i make this thread so we can discuss about some eye-candies and maybe some developers pick-up some ideas and implement them (if not busy with making the real important game-play improvements).

I mean OFP2 already shows some sort of this "love-for-detail" and so it could be nice to stay competitive...

So here comes my personal (wish-)list with some ideas about Love for details in every part of the game.

1. When it rains outside and you are inside a vehicle then it would be nice to see a some raindrops rinse down the winshield/windows.

Nothing realistic simulated, just a static animation... Also a screen-wiper animation would be nice then.

Would truly be awesome in a chopper for instance.

2. When it rains or just had rained and you are going offroad, then some mud could be visible at the tracks, wheels and the parts around them.

3. Love for details means also to me that the g-force of the earth will have a bit more influence on the environment. Since OFP1 it was suggested that tanks should be not able to jump vvery far and then land on the ground soft like a pillow. As a player you should be able to really "feel" the weight of such tanks.

4. More "decals", bullet-casing which stays on ground and s way to change their behavior in the graphical set-up menu.

I mean come'on, even 1998 in Half-life you could set decals like bullet-impact textures and bullet-casings to a certain value in the menu and so they will stay until reached the number and gets then deleted when more happens.

This would be great and each player could set-up this according to their needs/PC power.

5. Impact-Texture realistically spawned at the point the bullet impacts on glass.

Even the oldest games have this feature, where a simple round-shaped "glass-impact texture" (in various sizes depending on caliber) get spawned at exactly the position the bullet impacts.

I hate it that in Arma1 and OFP when the glass starts to get broke it gets completely replaced with a large damage-texture when got a certain damage-value.

6. Proper reload animations created for every weapon independent.

BIS come'on you have your own Motion-Capturing studio, and to not use this asset would be a "shame". Also keep in Mind that OFP2 will have this feature.

7. Real models for dropped ammunition. Get rid of those ammo-bags from 2001, please.

8. Drop empty magazine on the ground when reloading and it was empty.

Maybe include this into the suggested "decals" thing for the graphics-menu, for saving of performance.

9. Proper get-in animations like shown already for OFP2.

Now i would be interested in each others suggestions what means "love for detail" to them. Keep suggesting, i think its still important.

Regards, Christian

It shouldn't rain inside buildings.

The cars should feel more realistic - quick breaking should throw the vehicle a bit of its driving axis

Randomly lit lights in houses. Even better if that would only happen if no fight was nearby.

Random grass height - grass should be taller on a clearing in the middle of nowhere than on a maintained garden.

Cars could get their fuel tank popped by gunfire.

Tires should go flat if destroyed (rather than just "rust away").

Difference in reload speed while performing dry and tactical reload (it's tactical for a reason).

Proper weapon animation (locked slides, ...).

Ambient city noises (people crying, TV,...).

Better tracers (I can't stand the default lasers).

Birds flying away from bushes when player crawls nearby (not only visual, could create interesting gameplay as well).

Changes to stamina - running for too long would cause fatigue (player tripping over - bumpy view).

Possibility to crouch in vehicle guns to hide from gunfire.

Possibility to define what actions you do and do not want to display in the action menu (and in what order).

Properly working bulletproof glass (can stop a few rifle bullets).

Speed drop while exiting road should happen over longer period of time (the quick drop we have right now just because your wheel happened to be outside the road for 1/2 second is just ridiculous).

Weather should change have dependence on vehicles driving.

Dust effect when ground is hit by a bullet should be changed to mud splat after extensive raining.

Well, I already made a topic like this under my old username: Link. Though if it'll take two topics for BIS to listen, then I'll support this one.

Well, I already made a topic like this under my old username: Link. Though if it'll take two topics for BIS to listen, then I'll support this one.  

Was in a wrong section and has not the "proper" name, hehe.

I'll stick with this here, not because i made it, but i'll summarize all suggestions and post it numbered in the first post.

Possibility to define what actions you do and do not want to display in the action menu (and in what order).

I think there is possibility like that in ArmA. I saw that somewhere on http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page . But I find more useful possibility to mount some actions from action menu to keys (like binding in CS). It could work like this: when player hit some key, procedure start listing in .txt document. When it find action which is started by that key and it will be in action menu than it execute this action. This could help more than everything else, because the most useful/using actions player could have directly on keyboard.

Better tracers (I can't stand the default lasers).

BI said there will be tracers from VBS 2 (or better)

Randomly lit lights in houses. Even better if that would only happen if no fight was nearby.

Ambient city noises (people crying, TV,...).

BI said there will be ambient life of civilians. I hope they will turn the lights and TV on when home. Its better to say: It should be abillity to turn the lights and TV off and on in houses (maybe in streets)

But I disagree with a simple saving problem in Flashpoint. As a spec ops I like darkness more than everything. But to disarm the street illumination I need Bomb (I think in real it should be enough if I shoot the bulb). And If I save after killing the light and then load, the light is cheerfully shining.

Birds flying away from bushes when player crawls nearby (not only visual, could create interesting gameplay as well).

Bi also promised ambient life of animals (hares, boars and also some birds) I trust it will be more of it (domestic animals in villages, like chickens, pigs, cows ... - when spec ops, you should have mission when you have to find yourself something to eat etc.)

Proper get-in animations like shown already for OFP2.

What is shown in videos of OFP2 shouldn't be taking serious, because these are not videos from game. BI also said that moving in bodies of vehicles is now possible in their engine, but

they doun't know if it will be enabled in Arma 2 because of some problems with AI. I trust they fix it up and they enable it. There should be some more get-in animations for vehicles of the same type (cars, trucks and tanks / drivers, gunners, commanders), but not for every single vehicle.

I will be satisfied if:

1. there will be no empty houses (empty house - house is only box without interior, also in prefab block houses (panelák) will be every single flat, because it will be more easier to hide in house like this. The houses and flats could be "enter able" only in specific conditions but it must be "enter able".

2. Ambient life (people and animals) will be generated by PC. And in mission editor will be suitable option editor for this ambient life (like in Mafia or better )

3. There will be ability of reaching fence by more then one way (destroying it by tank). Wire fence should be able to get cliped by pliers or climbed over it could be helpful in "spec ops missions". Argument that no real soldier could ever try to reach fence by getting over in battle is for nothing, let players decide how to get from A to B.

4. Bohemia Interactive fulfill their promises they gave us about Arma 2

P.S. I'm very Very VERY pleased I saw some water else than sea in Videos about Arma 2 , but it still looks bad. At first, try to change colour of the water to dark blue/green. I saw new reflexion model used in Arma 2 on metals so I'm sure its possible to do it better on the water. I trust BI it will be perfect at the end.

Perun yap simple water reflection is standard today... it shouldn't be hard to add reflection into the water and better textures would be nice. It would be give much better look to the water. I dont have the link to a video wich I wanted to show, but in OFP was it possible too, to have very nice transparent + reflective water. A other

But the most thing I hate of the ArmA water is the "hackly look" at the beach for example. Because the isle ground is so "angular".

I think better skytexture's (sharper cloud's for example) could be also great for the atmosphere.

And all the other points of "better details for arma 2" are great ideas, nice thread!

What i'm missing more than the actual reflections from water, is the "transparent" look of water. I think it could look like this (depending on what is on the ground of the see):

Then some nice decent reflections on the waters surface and everything will look great.

Oh yes, in ArmA 2 it would be dreamlike   is it hard to add the transparent water and the reflection to the water textures? So many games has these features BIS could release this too. It would be really great.

no rain inside houses it its not a hole in the roof or ruined house

maybe add some predetermined areas in ground that when it rains a water pool is created on the ground slowly maybe by setposing itself from underground to ontop of ground.

water could maybe be a cube that has water textures and is animated to move up to ground level and have ripple fx in it like rain drops hitting it and also when it stops raining riple fx stops too maybe

More props and static objects or non static objects for mission and island makers to use.

no rain inside houses it its not a hole in the roof or ruined house

maybe add some predetermined areas in ground that when it rains a water pool is created on the ground slowly maybe by setposing itself from underground to ontop of ground.

water could maybe be a cube that has water textures and is animated to move up to ground level and have ripple fx in it like rain drops hitting it and also when it stops raining riple fx stops too maybe

I think this is too much ... but the system you wrote could be more useful for snow. But it means, that whole map should have one more layer (few MB more). I think it will not be implemented in basic Arma 2, but I think maybe year or two after releasing Arma 2 there will be some patches so I believe there will be some option like this.

But, let's face it, when the engine will be able to do this and will have suitable water system, the terrain things will be dreamy.

About transparency of water ... I don't find this too BIG. In every game which was released up to now there is graphical side of game more better then Arma 2(screens), but its because ofp/arma/Arma 2 is designed to be simulator for long distance battles (Arma 2 promises it should be simulator of whole WAR ) . In crysis there is maybe wonderfull transparent water, but there isn't view distance 8 Km (and AI at the freezing point). Games like Arma 2 are full of halfways (compromise) so there couldn't be everything. First thing is that multiplayer gaming must be ideal. Vehicle physics must be improved and AI should be better than it was too. After that, there comes some details.

*edit: But i've noticed one detail which sould be fixed: When player is leaning and shooting, gun recoil makes gun move vertically, but in real it should move on itself up-down axis.

(link to video with water in Arma 2, it is hard to see it, but it is in the scene when flying over the city in heli)

When it rains, you can hear the raindrops fall on your helmet. Brothers in Arms had this, and it's very cool.

working windscreen wipers on vehicles? or would that be to demanding? maybe add a stand that can be put up and down on bikes?

I think the grenade throwing needs to be improved. As of now it's almost impossible to aim without a crosshair and it's very hard to judge distance that the grenade will go.

To help with aiming, I think it would be useful if our character put his left hand foward to aim. Where ever the the had is pointing is where the grenade should land (assuming it's in range). If we hold the mouse button down, then we hold the grenade and it gives us extra time to aim.

The thing that bugs me the most in ArmA is the way that side arms are presented and handled. It seems, perhaps to me only, that the rifle "operation" was just copied over to the pistol and the operator's attachment points and posture was changed to fit the profile(I'm sure it goes deeper than that).

This, I feel, can be fixed by identifying why a soldier needs a pistol and then making adjustments to meet those needs.

I have come to understand that a pistol, in the field of war, is usually the second option for assault granted you have ammunition for it. The first option usually comes in the form of a rifle. With this in mind, we see that the pistol is only required when the primary weapon has failed (jam), depleted ammunition or is no longer of viable use at the current range (scoped rifle).

From the above, we gather that after certain requirements are met the pistol is now the only thing between us and the opposition. That should require a soldier to be as proficient with his pistol in CQB as he were with a rifle at range. In ArmA, this is certainly not the case. By design, the pistol in ArmA is plagued with sighting issues making it more of an ornament than a weapon.

This is the part where I nit-pick. I think the current presentation of the pistol from the operator's perspective is not correct. It feels very far away. Perhaps the distance is right but the profile and size of the weapon are off. This throws my aiming off since I have to zoom-in on the iron sights to get a good sight picture but this limits my peripheral vision and further complicates engaging multiple targets. I like to think that R6: Raven Shield did it best. The operation and presentation were pretty good; although, there was room for improvement there as well.

Lets not forget, in the occurrence of a weapon malfunction, it is always faster to swap to a pistol than to clear a jam. For this to work properly we would obviously need to incorporate weapon malfunctions and the opportunity to clear them.

I'd like to see this sort of speed and animation in-game as well:

Here @ 1:36

Since we are on the subject of malfunctions:

I've noticed (mostly while sniping) that a missed shot will sometimes hit a weapon or piece of equipment a soldier is carrying followed with a puff of sparks. Since the game engine is detecting the hit on the player, perhaps it could be taken a step further and actually render a weapon more prone to malfunction or completely useless [depending on the ballistics of the impact round(s)]

I am, by no means, an expert of ballistics or weapons. However, I do own and operate a few pistols frequently.

On the subject of pistols may i suggest that all players are given a menu to "Holster Pistol" and so officers may still be armed and be able to walk naturaly.

Yeah i have a animations suggestion for the Developers, I think people would apreaciate sitting inside cargo of vehicles in first person view ofter if you could see some hand animations and stuff from the characters sitting there.

working windscreen wipers on vehicles? or would that be to demanding? maybe add a stand that can be put up and down on bikes?

Well it seems we can't even open doors on vehicles in Game2 (tho the very old Game2 info say we would be able to, and I believe you can in VBS2, so we might be able to), so this is kinda pushing it I would say. Wipers would be really awsome if your window actually got covered in water and became hard to see out of, actually making them usefull and not just eye candy.

Yes you can open doors in ArmA, you just have to have the following in place:

* Doors modeled

* Doors selectioned

* Doors animations model-config'd

* User actions config'd

You could do that even in OFP, it's hardly a 'z0mg secret VBS hax'. It just takes time and effort.

Windshield wipers in all fairness is a bit trickier. You could in theory make the windshield a hidden selection and swap screens based on the state of a var controlled by a useraction and checking the weather, though you might run into z-buffer alpha-sorting, not sure. It would definitely go wonky if you tried to stack multiple hiddenselection alpha's to create a pseudo-blend.

Yes you can open doors in ArmA, you just have to have the following in place:

* Doors modeled

* Doors selectioned

* Doors animations model-config'd

* User actions config'd

You could do that even in OFP, it's hardly a 'z0mg secret VBS hax'. It just takes time and effort.

Windshield wipers in all fairness is a bit trickier. You could in theory make the windshield a hidden selection and swap screens based on the state of a var controlled by a useraction and checking the weather, though you might run into z-buffer alpha-sorting, not sure. It would definitely go wonky if you tried to stack multiple hiddenselection alpha's to create a pseudo-blend.

I know its possible to mod openable car doors in OFP/ArmA, but I was not refering to mods. I was refering to the dev version of the game and simply saying since we can't even open doors (something thats much easier to do, but not in the game), its unlikely the devs would add wipers.

Yes you can open doors in ArmA, you just have to have the following in place:

* Doors modeled

* Doors selectioned

* Doors animations model-config'd

* User actions config'd

You could do that even in OFP, it's hardly a 'z0mg secret VBS hax'. It just takes time and effort.

Windshield wipers in all fairness is a bit trickier. You could in theory make the windshield a hidden selection and swap screens based on the state of a var controlled by a useraction and checking the weather, though you might run into z-buffer alpha-sorting, not sure. It would definitely go wonky if you tried to stack multiple hiddenselection alpha's to create a pseudo-blend.

I know its possible to mod openable car doors in OFP/ArmA, but I was not refering to mods. I was refering to the dev version of the game and simply saying since we can't even open doors (something thats much easier to do, but not in the game), its unlikely the devs would add wipers.

And how/why would the dev's do it any different? Unless you're referring to a hope/expectation that every last bit of functionality was modeled in place in the delivered version.

Marek and Ondrej have both made repeated comments explaining that they have to make practical business decisions limiting how much work can be done, to maintain budgets and schedules. Ultimately, a whole lot of people are going to be 'unsatisfied' in one direction or another, because at some point you have to close the project and move on.

Them's the facts of life in the gaming market. I suppose that if BIS focused more of their attention on additional point-release content, there could be more shiny, but at the cost of decreased budget for on-going maintenance and patches etc.

With game market development, you have to beg and borrow your money up front, which comes with all sorts of strings attached. Those limitations then get transposed into content deliverable limitations.

One of the points made by codemasters in their presentations is this whole foundation. Basicly, while they're not admitting they're evidently still having issues getting the rendering system shiny and stable with heavy loads, they have emphasized that they've shoveled truckloads of cash to create exponentially more content variety. There's no innovation there yet in tech that they're bragging about that doesn't already exist to a degree in ArmA, early prototype tech demos, or even OFP for that matter.

That's one of the problems with the traditional business model, it may have worked in the past, but now it breaks down with newer projects because they're too big for that system.

I just played a bit ArmA(I), flying a MI-17(MG).

I placed an independent AI with a KA-50, that has the order to attack enemy forces inside a city.

The KA-50 was hit by to many rounds and had to do an emergency landing. I was giving him support with the MI-17 and then landed near to him.

The pilot was injured, but he ran like mad into the town to continuing with the fight.

Wouldn't it be better to jump into my MI-17 to get out of the battlezone?

In situations like this, you can clearly see the stupidness in the AI. He should either be able to "decide" that it's saver inside the MI-17 or I need an option to give this AI an order to follow me.

It would make the game feel more alive.

MfG Lee

I just played a bit ArmA(I), flying a MI-17(MG).

I placed an independent AI with a KA-50, that has the order to attack enemy forces inside a city.

The KA-50 was hit by to many rounds and had to do an emergency landing. I was giving him support with the MI-17 and then landed near to him.

The pilot was injured, but he ran like mad into the town to continuing with the fight.

Wouldn't it be better to jump into my MI-17 to get out of the battlezone?

In situations like this, you can clearly see the stupidness in the AI. He should either be able to "decide" that it's saver inside the MI-17 or I need an option to give this AI an order to follow me.

It would make the game feel more alive.

MfG Lee

Thats not poor a.i. rather simple editing.

The game is editable and flexible.. you could use getdamage or canmove to check the status of the helicopter and them tell the pilot to try and enter the Mi-17... or not .

There are many possibilities for such situations.

I just played a bit ArmA(I), flying a MI-17(MG).

I placed an independent AI with a KA-50, that has the order to attack enemy forces inside a city.

The KA-50 was hit by to many rounds and had to do an emergency landing. I was giving him support with the MI-17 and then landed near to him.

The pilot was injured, but he ran like mad into the town to continuing with the fight.

Wouldn't it be better to jump into my MI-17 to get out of the battlezone?

In situations like this, you can clearly see the stupidness in the AI. He should either be able to "decide" that it's saver inside the MI-17 or I need an option to give this AI an order to follow me.

It would make the game feel more alive.

MfG Lee

However, if the AI would have had a truck or a Stryker you still would have wanted them to continue the attack, and after all you 'ordered' them to attack the city, no matter if they had a suitable vehicle/sufficient group or not.

You can't have it all, there has to be a default setting for the AI to continue waypoints or not after their transport has been destroyed.

Yes you can open doors in ArmA, you just have to have the following in place:

* Doors modeled

* Doors selectioned

* Doors animations model-config'd

* User actions config'd

You could do that even in OFP, it's hardly a 'z0mg secret VBS hax'. It just takes time and effort.

Windshield wipers in all fairness is a bit trickier. You could in theory make the windshield a hidden selection and swap screens based on the state of a var controlled by a useraction and checking the weather, though you might run into z-buffer alpha-sorting, not sure. It would definitely go wonky if you tried to stack multiple hiddenselection alpha's to create a pseudo-blend.

I know its possible to mod openable car doors in OFP/ArmA, but I was not refering to mods. I was refering to the dev version of the game and simply saying since we can't even open doors (something thats much easier to do, but not in the game), its unlikely the devs would add wipers.

And how/why would the dev's do it any different? Unless you're referring to a hope/expectation that every last bit of functionality was modeled in place in the delivered version.

Marek and Ondrej have both made repeated comments explaining that they have to make practical business decisions limiting how much work can be done, to maintain budgets and schedules. Ultimately, a whole lot of people are going to be 'unsatisfied' in one direction or another, because at some point you have to close the project and move on.

Them's the facts of life in the gaming market. I suppose that if BIS focused more of their attention on additional point-release content, there could be more shiny, but at the cost of decreased budget for on-going maintenance and patches etc.

With game market development, you have to beg and borrow your money up front, which comes with all sorts of strings attached. Those limitations then get transposed into content deliverable limitations.

One of the points made by codemasters in their presentations is this whole foundation. Basicly, while they're not admitting they're evidently still having issues getting the rendering system shiny and stable with heavy loads, they have emphasized that they've shoveled truckloads of cash to create exponentially more content variety. There's no innovation there yet in tech that they're bragging about that doesn't already exist to a degree in ArmA, early prototype tech demos, or even OFP for that matter.

That's one of the problems with the traditional business model, it may have worked in the past, but now it breaks down with newer projects because they're too big for that system.

Dude your really reading way to much into what I was originally saying... I was just pointing out to Casimir, that since nothing else on cars other then lights works, its very unlikely there would be working wipers. Thats it...

My only other point was that early game2 previews said doors/hoods would be fully functional, and I do believe they are in VBS2... so its possible they would in fact be in Game2.

Where you got into this debate about how they would actually be done, or big business debate is really beyond me

The old door discussion .

BIS would have to do animations for getting in the cargo, gunner and driver seats of all the helicopters and APC's so it would be quite hard, it would also be a nightmare for addon makers.

No doubt it would be nice but regarding the vehicles i think BIS still have a long way to go before they consider this stuff.