Mass and weight - model interaction

Not sure if this is O2 modeling or Configs ....

I've come to the conclusion there must be something other than the mass assigned in the GEO Lod that determines how one object displaces another.

For example

If I take the BIS boats (each about 1-2tonnes);

- Small ones can just push the bigger ones

- Bigger ones can more easily push little ones.

- But my 400 tonne ship bounces off either and can barely push either.

There seems to be either a LOD Property or a particular LOD itself or an obscure config parameter that give the mass some actual inertia, power or kinetic energy ..... but stuffed if I can "switch it on"

Anyone got some ideas? Thx

Quote[/b] ]Anyone got some ideas? Thx

mass is assigned per vertex in Geometry lod. nothing else

try to add some more mass to points nearer the board,that actually interfier with other objects.

Just an idea though...

as i said in your thread - it won't be a big surprise if objects bigger 50-80m won't work correctly in game. Try to scale down your ship and see if smth changes

this only occur with water vehicle i think. you cant run against a tank and move it, works with biggest boats easily. landcontact points seem to be related in some way. rhib has no land contact lod at all i noticed. could be a config entry that defines the flow of mass in water. sometimes a rocket hit (12kg) punshes a 40 tons boat like a billard ball, giving all energy to the boat making it speeding across the map. same rocket hits 10 times with a normal hit. unpredictable. i had some strange thoughts about this allready including water deep, tide, time of year stuff like that.

@bdfy

I count myself as 1 of the pioneer experimenters with the GEO size limit, so thats nothing new.

I've tried both under and over sized, its still a problem with both.

@Scars

But have you seen those excessive reactions with BI boats? I can't say I have (in ArmA anyway).

So thats why I'm thinking its something missing from mod'ed boats.

I changed my boats from the LandContact method to the BI method of floating, the GEO Lod hull (and yes, a 120 meter long one does also float) and the problem is no better.

I might try adding my config to a standard BI boat P3D and see if that shows where the problem originates.

Quote[/b] ]I've tried both under and over sized, its still a problem with both.

ok, can you say why ofp nimitz was made i several parts ? was it size limit troubles or smth else ? why it was made as biulding not ship that time ? I guess some bugs with size forced Hawk to do so ? If i'm right are those bugs eliminated in Arma?

Quote[/b] ]I changed my boats from the LandContact method to the BI method of floating

means you eliminated land contact lod and add autocenter=0 property ?

yeah gnat, you right the bis boats acts "normal" or lets say predictable, the zodiac will bounce against rhib and get reflected with loosing energy. i tried it aswell with no landcontact lod and was more then surprised that it really worked in some way( the boat starts flying sometimes, like the zodiac). at the moment i have a landcontact with around 40 points for a app 120mx25 hull trying to build the waterline best as possible related to the geometry lod. it fixed some issues i had with helideck and landing on helideck (pressed boat down before, no matter how soft i landed). anyway i allready had the rocket hit boost effect again.

some questions:

how does your geometry lod model look?

hull is nearly 1:1 in my case

wich max mass values did you test?

alot between 10000 and 750000

did you notice any difference at all when its above lets say 20000? not really

do you have a class entry in geometry lod and wich? class=vehicle lately (doesnt seem to do anything, rhib doesnt have any at all??)

we should try to countertest the findings we made, could help to track the problem down.

@bdfy

deleting landcontact and let the geometry do the work. autocenter=0 i never used with this, but isnt used in rhib either as far i know. but sounds like orth testing.

In my experience these extreme reactions are caused by one object getting under another. It’s a 'feature' of the game engine.

Try extending your geo lod lower and making sure any other objects cant get under it.

what about setting the simpliest ship addon (just a huge box) and see hot it works ?

i tried. i like puzzles

ftp://www.armedassault.info/_hosted/libmod/bdfy_test_ship.pbo

Just huge boxes configured as ships.

It's ok to collide with huge box near the center, but if you try to hit it near the  nose or  stern - you can turn it up with RHIB

On the deck there're troubles too - it's ok to move near the center, but run to the nose or  stern - you'll fall.

I can only think there's size limitation for geometry shapes. That's why Nimitz was made in parts - and if you want to port it looks like you have to do it the same way

Sorry, been busy spending what little time I have helping the Our Weapons lads by get a hovercraft pac up and running.

@Scars

Quote[/b] ]at the moment i have a landcontact with around 40 points

Why so may points? Just 4-6 work fine

Quote[/b] ] i had with helideck and landing on helideck (pressed boat down before, no matter how soft i landed).

Yeh, same. Weird, never did that sort of thing if OFP if I remember.

Quote[/b] ]how does your geometry lod model look?

Yeh near same. 1 big box with only about 10 segments. A test. It doesnt follow the shape of the Res Lod hull. But it still "floats"

Quote[/b] ]wich max mass values did you test?

Tested 50 to 400,000. Not a great deal changes

Quote[/b] ]class=vehicle

Yep, had already tried that. Copied all of the Properties I saw in the Sample BI boats ..... but no luck. Think I might try copying the whole LOD maybe

Quote[/b] ]we should try to countertest the findings we made, could help to track the problem down.

Yep agree, but Im running hot and cold on time I can devote to this stuff

@Rock

Quote[/b] ]caused by one object getting under another

lol .... sure, but not in these cases. Its just 1 big brick bumping into another big brick.

@bdfy

Quote[/b] ]That's why Nimitz was made in parts

Thats not news. I've said that before. But even several of those Nimitz bits still *just* break the size limit because sometimes you can fall through the deck.

The effect can also come and go depending on where you place it on a map. Its as though OFP & ArmA have a map "grid" that objects need to fit within.

A new effect never seen in OFP is visual clipping of over-sized Resolution LODs. This is how the Kuznetsov was made. 1 big Res LOD with a whole bunch of smaller invisible GEO and Landcontact LODs.

This problem means even that carrier has to be redesigned after porting from OFP.

Well, when I get back to it I'll post some more results ....

Quote[/b] ]Thats not news. I've said that before. But even several of those Nimitz bits still *just* break the size limit because sometimes you can fall through the deck.

So limit exists ? I've tried Nimitz in Arma - deck bugs are still in there. Would be great to hear exact limit value...

Quote[/b] ]lol .... sure, but not in these cases. Its just 1 big brick bumping into another big brick.

ships in Arma/Ofp lift their noses while moving. More speed - nose is more lifted. My test boxes are quite fast - you can even hit the deck of object like nimitz in collision

maxspeed=500

the small one is pretty fun to ride around with.

its incredible how high its get out of the water, and how long it takes to get back after stopping. think you can get over a rhib easily.

strange is that the bow waves particle effect seem to be fixed in center of o2, and has nothing to do with the size of the boat. wich could be an idicator that o2 doesnt recon the size of the object. the unwanted effects are very strong in your testmodels. when i bumb in the side of my vessels it nearly react natural. only bow and stern i am able to move it away with another vessel.

increasing the faces of the object maybe helps, i had more problems with a simple geometry lod as with a identical hull in geometry lod.

but it really seems that it got worse then it was in ofp.

Quote[/b] ]maxspeed=500

You know - just test values  I reuploaded the example. added small box with normal mass center

From what i see collision is normal for small ship with normal mass center (if it's low - you can tilt it with high hit.)

Thus i think that all the trouble are due to vessel size. Can't see eany changes with ofp engine...

Yeap looks like some engine limitation to the "water" classes. More geometry problems, when you using "ladder" object near your ship and want to climb up, your own "soldier geometry" will move off "ship geometry". Happens only when you use "water" as the base class.

Another horrible limitation, that theres (as I know) no config string for "canfloat=true" for APC's and cars... So you floating APC or amphibios unit cannot move faster than 30 km/h on water:( Even when you trying to speed up it through "setvelocity" cycle script.

Well, even though the proper Geo limit is 64m I'm getting some good results with a full sized Geo Lod 100m+

The biggest pluses Im seeing so far;

- Don't seem to get the high speed rebounding ship when its hit by a missile etc (not yet anyway after several hours of test). Seems solidly stuck in the water as it should be.

- Slow turns, as a ship should

- Can hit any part of the hull with another ship or missile/projectile. (haven't check the push&shove dynamics yet)

Part of the trick seems to be get some hull into the water /under the waterline and put some weight down there.

Ooohhhh! Small note to above;

I was accidently using LANDCONTACT as well and that actually overrides the GEO Lod waterline.

Using the GEO lod only tends to make the ship float high, but adding a LandContact makes in float near those defined points, plus seems to push some geo lod hull into the sea to anchor it.

And I'm still yet to see an unwanted high-speed reaction to missiles

same experience on my vessel, but i still have strange reactions if i drive against from 0° or from 180°.

and if i leave landcontact completly it is much to high.