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an_enlarged_stomach

a-10 feels weird

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i really enjoy the heli flight model but the airplane model does seem somehow not as responsive as it should. suppose this is mianly compared to flight sims like microsoft comabt game and il2

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LOL I don't care about the flight model, "ArmA Made" is good enough for me.

I just want a little thrust.

At low altitudes - the funniest part is typically you put the plane in a dive, then pull back, then dive etc. until you regain airspeed, typically, there isn't enough thrust to recover and you crash.

icon_rolleyes.gif

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This is kinda off topic now.

I originally said that the gau-8 only needs to be more accraute, and nothing much else.

The flight modeling is rather fine.

The gun is already pretty accurate and it already has 21 bursts with the Gau-8, add the 5 sure kill Mavericks, the 30 something FFARs and you'll have an moster larger than the monster it already is. smile_o.gif

The gun is not accurate, crazy_o.gif

It is far more accurate than that in Lock-On, and in videos I have seen it looks more accurate than that. Currently you need to get pretty close to get enough hits on target.

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Its a beautyfull plane but i hate flying it so much that i never use it, it tends to sit on its ass too confused_o.gif .

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On the topic of the A-10 feeling "weird," does anyone notice that sometimes the A-10 just loses power? It's like the engines just can't crank out enough juice no matter what, and whalla, you're a dirt dart.

Typically happens at low-altitudes, while trying to gain some altitude, or bank left or right.

huh.gif

Yes, I have noticed that. We call it a stall. I kind of thought it was a feature. tounge2.gif

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On the topic of the A-10 feeling "weird," does anyone notice that sometimes the A-10 just loses power? It's like the engines just can't crank out enough juice no matter what, and whalla, you're a dirt dart.

Typically happens at low-altitudes, while trying to gain some altitude, or bank left or right.

huh.gif

Yes, I have noticed that.  We call it a stall.  I kind of thought it was a feature.  tounge2.gif

So nice of you to respond. Another great example of why we should develop a way to stab someone in the face over the internet...

rofl.gifnener.gif

Ok folks, is there a documented speed the A-10 stalls at? I would imagine somewhere near 200mph?

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On the topic of the A-10 feeling "weird," does anyone notice that sometimes the A-10 just loses power? It's like the engines just can't crank out enough juice no matter what, and whalla, you're a dirt dart.

Typically happens at low-altitudes, while trying to gain some altitude, or bank left or right.

huh.gif

Yes, I have noticed that. We call it a stall. I kind of thought it was a feature. tounge2.gif

So nice of you to respond. Another great example of why we should develop a way to stab someone in the face over the internet...

rofl.gifnener.gif

Ok folks, is there a documented speed the A-10 stalls at? I would imagine somewhere near 200mph?

I said that mostly to jest, but in all seriousness you have to remember that stalling an aircraft isn't about simple velocity. It's about how much air is moving over the wing - things like banking the plane or having a tailwind can effect it.

Honestly, after putting some more thought into it, I might play around with this some today to see if I can recreate the "dead brick syndrome," to see if I can combat it with flaps and other techniques... it might truly be that a wing is stalling.

Of course, this is all assuming the experiences I've had are the same as your own. Looking back on times I remember hitting the ground, I could believe it was a stall... I haven't seen you flying, though, which may be a completely different story. I'm not a very good pilot, anyway! wink_o.gif

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Ok folks, is there a documented speed the A-10 stalls at? I would imagine somewhere near 200mph?

the RL aircraft has a stall speed in the 'clean' configuration (no flaps, landing gear etc.) of about 120 knots, translated into kilometres an hour, roughly 222km/h, which is somewhat ok, but the ArmA engine has this sneaky little 'feature' of letting you continue holding the same attitude without actually giving any warning that you're falling out of the sky. i won't say they 'stall' because they clearly don't, they just slow down to the point where the speed drops to zero while the airframe still points forward, a result of BI using a helicopter physics model on their fixed-wing jets, which really dosen't work IMO.

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I don't think it's the helicopter physics model at all. I think it's just a very simple one.

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hell, i don't care if i'm given dumbfire ammunition to be honest, as long as there is a flight model that is at least somewhat based on real fixed-wing physics.

Amen to that!

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has ANYBODY thought about the fact that the aircraft isnt fast in real life...

And its supposed to do ground attack and not all fancy high speed turns, and that is usually carrying a f384load of weapons, and that really its not the A-10 thats slow, but the harrier waay to fast compared to the A-10, well the GBU harrier atleast.

The aircraft should act on the way they are loaded. A bit more power would be nice I agree, but then again, you know its underpowered so just dont do the stuff that will make you stall out.

And a CCIP would be very nice, not for the gun imo, but for dropping bombs! The loading of the A-10 in lockon is good, but it can carry far more bombs then that. Ive seen pictures where its absolutly filled up with the triple racks of m-82 500lb bombs...

We need those things underneath the A-10, and also some LGB's, combined with mavericks, and ffar pods, aaaand working ECM! Then maybee a little bit of increased power settings and your done.

Make longer passes if your stalling out in turns. Oh and every aircraft will stall out if you turn very sharply.

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My only problem is not lack of speed but lack of engine power, at or bellow 250 km speed it starts falling and i have yet to pull a manual landing without damaging the aircraft.

For the A10 to be effective it needs to stay up there at the low speeds its meant to fly.

Other than that its a superb addon in all aspects, model, textures, animated parts, interior. Counter measures would have been nice (like the SU) but i noticed that the a.i. doesnt fire strella's at the jets.

Anyone noticed that BIS animated the landing gear on both the A10 and SU-34 inlove.gif .

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My only problem is not lack of speed but lack of engine power, at or bellow 250 km speed it starts falling and i have yet to pull a manual landing without damaging the aircraft.

For the A10 to be effective it needs to stay up there at the low speeds its meant to fly.

Other than that its a superb addon in all aspects, model, textures, animated parts, interior. Counter measures would have been nice (like the SU) but i noticed that the a.i. doesnt fire strella's at the jets.

Anyone noticed that BIS animated the landing gear on both the A10 and SU-34 inlove.gif .

Yeah, but at 250 a plane should stall out... Just fly faster its easy really. Besides think about the weapons underneath the aircraft at that speed.

Its a heavy piece of metal! With even heavier pieces of metal strapped underneath it.

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Make longer passes if your stalling out in turns. Oh and every aircraft will stall out if you turn very sharply.

quite true. but, see, in real life, in those cases, you're stalling out because somehow you've wrenched the stick back hard enough to make the angle of attack (difference between flightpath and the direction the wing is pointing) too large - not because your speed has decreased.

thing is, this dosen't happen in ArmA - you can easily stand every plane on it's tail at full power. unfortunately, to make up for it, BI made it so your speed starts to drop when you have the slightest bit of backstick. it's just wrong.

Yeah, but at 250 a plane should stall out... Just fly faster its easy really. Besides think about the weapons underneath the aircraft at that speed.

true, but really, at full power, a plane shouldn't get near to that stalling speed in the first place.

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true, but really, at full power, a plane shouldn't get near to that stalling speed in the first place.

quite true. but, see, in real life, in those cases, you're stalling out because somehow you've wrenched the stick back hard enough to make the angle of attack (difference between flightpath and the direction the wing is pointing) too large - not because your speed has decreased.

smile_o.gif Lots of people dont fly in smooth lines and good curves, they want their reticle on target asap after every pass.

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My only problem is not lack of speed but lack of engine power, at or bellow 250 km speed it starts falling and i have yet to pull a manual landing without damaging the aircraft.

For one, that's more of an issue with wing lift and not so much engine power.

Second, it's likely that this problem is only exacerbated by the fact that you (the player) doesn't get direct control of vehicle thrust. Instead, the controls given to players change a target velocity, and the game automatically adjusts thrust to maintain that velocity. In fact, it seems like to me that this may very well be the root of this entire problem.

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My only problem is not lack of speed but lack of engine power, at or bellow 250 km speed it starts falling and i have yet to pull a manual landing without damaging the aircraft.

For one, that's more of an issue with wing lift and not so much engine power.

Second, it's likely that this problem is only exacerbated by the fact that you (the player) doesn't get direct control of vehicle thrust. Instead, the controls given to players change a target velocity, and the game automatically adjusts thrust to maintain that velocity. In fact, it seems like to me that this may very well be the root of this entire problem.

Yeah that's really weird. You can keep a very exact speed (say 300kmph) by going 400kmph, then removing the throttle, waiting for the speedo to tick down to 300, then putting in throttle till you just hear the sound change.

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I dream of the day when flight sims and combat sims are one.   yay.gif

I agree with this statement 100%.

I also feel that the A-10's flight model needs to be tweaked.

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The lack of thrust I can kind of deal with. Mostly the planes just need to keep better speed in shallow turns. That, and the throttle needs to actually be a throttle.

The thing that gets me is the utter lack of rudder authority on all aircraft. The rudder is a primary flight control, every bit as important as the elevator and ailerons, and it is the main control used for fine-tuning gun aim. To have no rudder control above 100 mph is ridiculous. It takes me five miles just to aim the gun five degrees to the left. It's really like there's an auto-rudder effect that overrides my inputs, since I can clearly see the rudder move in turns.

The gun dispersion is too high, but that's easily fixed. It's listed at 15 mils in the data files. The gun should put 80% of rounds within a 5 mil circle in real life. "Dispersion = 0.006250" seems about right, since I really doubt ArmA uses a normal distribution for dispersion. (The number in the config is just in radians. It works exactly as you'd expect for vehicle weapons, but small arms seem to have half the dispersion listed in the config--or maybe I'm just imagining it.)

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The thing that gets me is the utter lack of rudder authority on all aircraft.  The rudder is a primary flight control, every bit as important as the elevator and ailerons, and it is the main control used for fine-tuning gun aim.  To have no rudder control above 100 mph is ridiculous.  It takes me five miles just to aim the gun five degrees to the left.  It's really like there's an auto-rudder effect that overrides my inputs, since I can clearly see the rudder move in turns.  

Hey Mate, i stuck this up in the bugtracker - i think it's exactly what you're talking about.

Lack of constant, authorative rudder control on all aircraft (mainly fixed wing)

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Would you mind to bring up the throttle also in bugtracker?

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The flight model issues aside, i was doing a little more flying in the a10, and theres ways to use it properly. It's not so bad that thing thing drops out of the sky. If your stalling out while flying this model, you'd do just as bad with the real thing.

The limitations are just a bit different. If the AoA guage worked that would help alot, but it doesnt. So just be carefull of your flight path. Dont try to turn violently onto your targets. Pass over them and get a visual ID, then roll into them.

If anyone isnt fimiliar with a good "roll in" I'm sure me, or one of the other guys could make a video. It works really well with the crappy flight model. lol

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Absolutely agree with most statements.. The A-10 seems drawn to the ground like i have said on several occasions as is it's attached to a giant magnet and the ground is the opposing magnet..

if you don't get the A-10 to about 300 mph before trying to turn it you go down.. if you don't keep the nose up at all times, you go down..

It could really use a fix.. big time.. It's not accurate at all.. to low of an idle speed maybe.. no thrust... definitely needs a fix though..

Air combat for ps2 had it right I think..

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