Welcome to bird bbs
\"Bird of Prey\"
One thing that has always, always amused me is that everybody screams for realism in their addons but next to nobody goes for realism in their missions. 99.2% of all the missions I've played in OFP (including the BIS missions) are totally fanciful from a military standpoint. You're either an elite special forces operator trapped behind enemy lines going against a total hodgepodge of enemy forces or you're a member of an elite special forces squad dropped behind enemy lines going against a total hodgepodge of enemy forces.
The missions I make for my little MP group are, I think, pretty realistic. One of our favorites right now involves a US Tank Company (14 tanks, reinforced with 2 M-3 CFVs plus the company support element) moving to contact an Iranian reinforced tank battalion (31 T-72 tanks plus a BMP infantry company and battalion scout platoon). It's awesomely fun, and charging across the desert areas of Tonal (for lack of a more appropriate desert map) in the commander's hatch of one of King Homer's M1A2s is a fantastic feeling and it's totally multiplied when you've got an entire company of tanks on-line and firing away.
I realize that not everyone has served in the military, let alone a combat unit. But I think that the resources are out there for any mission maker produce realistic missions just the same as there are resources that allow addon makers to produce hugely detailed and realistic addons.
It seems to me that mission makers are more concerned with cinematics and over-the-top action than they are with realism. I say to you: REALISTIC MISSIONS CAN BE FUN TOO!
This TDG idea is brilliant - if one or two or three mission makers start churning out a TDG once a month or so I think we'll see the quality of missions increase dramatically as more people are exposed to realistic military situations. There's a massive back catalogue of these TDGs and nearly all of them involve small unit tactics, which is perfect for OFP. Surely someone can find an interesting scenario they would want to make.
I think the whole idea is that if someone made a mission like this then you could find your own solution within OFP. You'll be able to know what went right or wrong and you can run it over again and again.Originally Posted by (Silver Falcon @ Dec. 31 2004,08:31)
Realism is quite a relative term. For example: would you call a film Band of Brothers relistic? It is based on true history, but I thing there are many not much realistic scenes or details. I´m mission designer and to be frank I rather vary it. Once I make rather realistic mission next I make some less realistic one (however I try to let it be at least logical and realistic in other ways than the theme - for example some infiltration features that OFP lacks).
Some players like realistic ones, some not...
This time I replaced leader of OP85 project which tries to come with realistic campaign for specnaz however there are not many sources of specnaz doctrines so again it is a bit relative term. At least from the time I design the themes of new missions I give more attention to reconnaisence and logical partysan defensive doctrines in mountain terrain.
Those TDG should be done as MP ones, since OFP have some quite different rules due to AI.
AI may be the OPFOR, but I´d rather not send AI MG to cover me from building, its also hard to let half of your squad throw granades at right disperse on enemy at right time and use leapfrog withdraw under covering fire.
Munch Studios & Bohemia Interactive Studio designer
True. But I think there are ways to make missions more realistic than most are. For example, in a Soviet-style OPFOR you'd never find T-72s and T-80s mixed together at the battlefield level. Same with BMP-1s and BMP-2s. One Division may have T-72s and BMP-1s, but you won't find one platoon with BMP-2s and another with BMP-1s in the same company. Squad compositions are another big thing - modern US infantry squads are NOT the same as what OFP groups are. Russian style tank platoons almost always have THREE tanks, not four.Originally Posted by [b
Mission briefings are another big thing. If someone would just take the time to make a good Warning Order or FRAGO for their mission briefing then that would enhance the mission tremendously. Even small things like spelling and proper terms. I absolutely hate it when I play a mission and some mission maker talks about an "M-1A1 Squad" or "Apache Squadron". If people would just to a little bit of research then you'd realize that these things don't exist and it helps ruin the atmosphere of a mission when you say it. All this information is publicly available.
I think one of the root causes of mission making not being as popular as addon making, and relating to that why we have so few missions for so many addons, is that people WANT realism and almost NOBODY gives it to them. I think the FDF mod did a great job with their missions because in a lot of cases they did them realistically.
One of the projects that the community is working slowly and silently toward that I hope to become involved in is the WWIII project, headed up by the CSLA mod. When this project gets off the ground, I promise that if I have anything to say about it, the missions will all be based in real doctrine and tactics. If you're a scout team leader on the intra-German border you'll have a detailed OpOrder telling you the entire situation, your forces will be exactly as American organizations were at the time and you'd be attacked by a realistic Soviet force (say, a Motor Rifle Company or Tank Company with artillery support).
One of the things I'm hoping to see as a result of this thread is the posting here, hopefully made a Sticky, of the Tables of Organization and Equipment (TOE) for those forces that are bit harder to find. I've many field manuals, etc. detailing U.S. and Soviet TOEs, but I'm hoping we can get the Tables for Finnish, Polish, Czeck, British, etc. forces posted, if not here, then made avail at OFPEC. Most mods are including squads and "platoons", as found under Groups/F2, but perhaps they can be persuaded to include in a read-me the Tables for their forces, from team/section up to battalion.
Your points are qite true, however its not easy to get all informations of such "details".
I quite spent a lot time searching for informations about Russian Naval Infantry and VDV in 1985 and their equipment and units, but I can´t realy say have enough information to be sure to give the campaign very high realism. It quite realistic for people that are concerned with military units and so on, but some russians concerned with especialy those units may laugh.
It would not be a bad idea to create a topic with links to sites containing information about various things to improve level of realism in missions.
Of course, people should post only information from very sure sources, not post their toughts what is realistic as peaople vary in the level of knowledge or personal experience.
Also, those points you wrote seems to me just like details, which gives the feeling only to realistic concepted mission.
It needs good knowledge of Russian and NATO doctrines and it is not easy to learn in week, because officers of both sides studied it a few years. So the point is as I wrote to create a topic with chosen information providing relatively fast brief to such stuff.
I'm pinning this because I think it's definately worthwhile. Post any tactics, organizations, scenario ideas or resources based on real-world militaries here.