European Politics Thread.

[colossus]

Quote[/b] ]Putin: Russia testing new missiles

MOSCOW, Russia -- President Vladimir Putin says Russia's armed forces
will soon have access to advanced nuclear missile systems unlike those
held by other countries.

Speaking to high-ranking military officials Wednesday, Putin said that
while international terrorism was one of the main threats facing Russia,
the country's nuclear defenses also had to be kept up to date.

"We are conducting research and are testing the most up-to-date nuclear
missile systems, which, I'm sure, will be supplied to the armed forces in
the near future," Putin was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.

"What is even more important, these systems will have no analogues in
the other nuclear powers during the next few years."

"International terrorism is one of the major threats for Russia. We
understand as soon as we ignore such components of our defense as a
nuclear and missile shield, other threats may occur."

Putin gave no further details about what type of weapons he was
referring to.

However, The Associated Press quoted Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov as
saying this month that Russia hoped to test-fire a mobile version of its
Topol-M ballistic mission this year. Production of the system could begin
next year, Ivanov said.

AP added that Russia was also reported to be developing a next-
generation nuclear missile capable of carrying up to 10 warheads
weighing up to 4.4 tons, compared with the Topol-M's payload of 1.32
tons. Topol-Ms have been deployed in silos since 1998.

Putin has often pledged to restore Russia's military power, which declined
after the break-up Soviet Union amid severe funding problems.

His latest statement sets an assertive tone ahead of this weekend's
summit of the Asian Pacific Economic Cooperation organization, where he
is expected to meet U.S. President George W. Bush.

Independent military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer said Wednesday's
statement appeared to be as much for show as for military strategy.

"This is intended for the internal audience, an attempt to say that things
are great, that defense is growing stronger and not falling apart as it
actually is," Felgenhauer told AP.

What's the point? If anybody uses this WMD the end is near. I don't want
a Tjernobyl x200. Humanity is so stupid ***

[kerosene]

And with Bush in the White House this is a great oppurtunity for a new arms race, not that Bush needed much encourage meant (mini-nukes, star-wars II, etc.)

As Colossus pointed out they've already got enough to start armegeddon anyway, I'd imagine they'd probably be better off spending the money on conventional weapons for their army, or jet fuel, or methods of training new recruits where they dont have to be beaten to death...

But shit, im not a politican.

[Postduifje]

As Colossus pointed out they've already got enough to start armegeddon anyway, I'd imagine they'd probably be better off spending the money on conventional weapons for their army, or jet fuel, or methods of training new recruits where they dont have to be beaten to death...

How about spending some money on fixing up a proper economy? bombs are bad, prosperity is good...mmkkay

[Ex-RoNiN]

Today is the 31st anniversary of the student uprising at the Athens Polytechnic.

Greece, November 1973

Uprising that brought down a dictatorship

In 1967 a military junta overthrew the government in Greece and established a brutal regime of oppression.

Lyndon B Johnson, then US president, fighting an escalating war in Vietnam, found some time to send letters full of praise to Colonel Papadopoulos, the strongman of the regime.

Papadopoulos was the head of the military intelligence service and a longtime friend of the US. Most European governments remained silent.

In early 1973 there were signs that this gloomy period was near its end.

The first sparks came from the universities. Greek students were not immune to the wind of revolt that was blowing in every country of the world. It was much easier to discuss and exchange ideas inside the universities.

The Polytechnic uprising started as one more student protest. It was 15 November 1973 when a student demonstration some 500 strong entered the Polytechnic School in the heart of Athens.

The students were protesting against the rigging of student elections by the regime and against police brutality.

For a few crucial hours the regime hesitated to unleash the police and its thugs against the students. That was enough time for the anger to explode. In less than 24 hours what started as a student protest became a general uprising against the regime.

Thousands of university students joined the occupation. Numbers gave them strength. The slogans they were chanting became more and more political and radical—“Down with the dictatorship”, “US out”, “General strike" and “People, time for revolution”.

They set up a “free radio station”, a “people’s clinic” for those wounded in the struggle, and a “people’s canteen” to feed the protesters. Groups of students outside of the buildings were distributing leaflets to the crowds going home after work.

The news of the occupation spread like wildfire in the working class districts and at schools. By noon next day thousands of people were there.

Open revolt

School students came in by the hundreds and then by the thousands. Building workers came in carrying a banner saying “People’s power” and joined the occupation.

Small farmers from nearby came too. They were angry against their land being taken from them for the benefit of a rich shipowner.

Bus drivers slowed down to allow the students to pass leaflets to the passengers and write graffiti. Early in the evening 300,000 people had taken over Athens city centre.

It was an open revolt.

The police were unable to smash the revolt. Instead of encircling the Polytechnic the cops found themselves surrounded by angry crowds.

Thousands of demonstrators tried to storm several public buildings, like the Ministry of the Interior or the Ministry of Public Order.

The colonels decided to answer the challenge of the uprising the only way they knew how—with brute force.

In the late hours of 16 November tanks, armoured vehicles and elite army units started to move towards the city centre. The police started to fire live ammunition at the demonstrators.

The workers and the students did not abandon the streets and their brothers and sisters inside the Polytechnic. They tried to stop the tanks with barricades and counter-attacks.

But that was impossible. A tank smashed through the central gate of the Polytechnic School at 3am on Saturday 17 November.

The military regime murdered scores of students and workers inside the Polytechnic. The massacre continued through the night on the surrounding streets. Hundreds more were wounded. The uprising was quelled but the regime itself was mortally wounded.

The junta managed to survive for another eight months. The Polytechnic uprising was the beginning of its end.

Sources vary widely in the number of victims, but frequently heared numbers vary between 24 and over 400 people killed. My mum reckons it is the latter - she also lost a few friends that day

RIP to everyone who died for freedom and democracy that day.

[FW200]

R.I.P.

[Postduifje]

...

Practicly the same story, only a different year and place: The velvet revolution in Prague

edit: Although not quite as bloody

[DarkLight]

What's the point? If anybody uses this WMD the end is near. I don't want
a Tjernobyl x200. Humanity is so stupid ***

Yeah this world sucks

[Bordoy]

What's the point? If anybody uses this WMD the end is near. I don't want
a Tjernobyl x200. Humanity is so stupid ***

Yeah this world sucks

Its not the world, its the twats who live in it.

[denoir]

A Dollar-Euro Currency War Taking Shape?

Quote[/b] ]
Europe takes the brunt. US Treasury Secretary Snow insists he favours a strong dollar but few believe him

The United States has already taken up the banner of exporting democracy to unwilling victims and it now seems that the US Treasury is trying to export the US twin deficits by insisting that the US national deficits are a global responsibility, in this case primarily a European one.

The US Treasury Secretary John Snow is on a tour of Europe and will be attending the G20 meeting in Berlin today but it is becoming clear that nothing will be done or said at the meeting to halt the slide of the dollar. On the surface the Bush administration is pursuing a strong dollar policy but it has now become clear that the opposite is most probably true in that the dollar will be allowed to fall even further to encourage the sale of US exports on the world market. At the end of the day, non-US consumers will be asked to pull the US out of a hole by buying its goods. John Snow said yesterday that the responsibility for reducing the U.S. current account deficit does not rest with the US alone, adding that European countries needed to foster growth and a more vibrant economy that would consequently import more US goods. Attack being the best defence it seems.

Yesterday the dollar fell to an all time low against the Euro of $1.3065. Some are predicting that the Bush administration is preparing to let the dollar slide even further some say as much as another 20% but this may be excessive as the dollar is already at 83.31 on the trade-weighted index, a nine-year low.

Shifting the blame and financial burden onto Europeans is an easy bet as it has been some time since European leaders spoke with a unified voice and the chances of European central bankers and the ECB working together to prop up the dollar are nil even if such action proved to be effective. Perhaps as a pre-emptive strike, John Snow said that market intervention was "non-rewarding at best." The Yen and Sterling are also being hit with the pound reaching a four-month high of $1.8639 yesterday and the Yen hitting 103.65.

John Snow insisted yesterday that the United States supports a "strong dollar" sending the US currency into a dive and a record low. Currency traders are not fooled by the rhetoric if rhetoric it is. John Snow in a speech given to the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London said that "the history of efforts to impose non-market valuations on currencies is at best unrewarding and checkered," in other words "save your money and hold on for the ride".

European leaders and central bankers are now genuinely worried, talking up the dollar has been singularly ineffective despite Trichet saying that the brusque movements in the dollar were unwelcome. The US Treasury is laying its cards on the table despite its official announcements and it is now the turn of European leaders to take up the gauntlet and retort with unified action or simply live with the grim reality that European exports will be priced out of the market for the next couple of years, something that the Eurozone economy can ill afford. John Snow will say that Europeans need to make themselves more attractive to foreign investors and need to promote growth, the European think that the US has been profligate and reckless and is trying to shift responsibility elsewhere. So a currency war it may well be. The Bush administration has overspent and is shifting the cards on the table, daring its partners to undermine the global currency and the bulwark of the world's economy. Who will call whose bluff?

It's not a simple thing, currency strength. It's an indicator of how well an economy is doing, and the overall confidence in the economy. At the same time it hurts exports badly - at least in areas where there is competition.

But beyond that, there's alse the very real question of the state of the country. It isn't reasonable either to turn yourself into a third-world country, just so that you can export more stuff.

I'm not sure about the exact ratio, but IIRC the EU imports more from the US than vice versa. So while it might be painful for the European export inudustry to have a very strong Euro, it isn't necessarily bad for Europe as a whole.

[Supah]

Doesn't a strong euro VS the dollar make Oil cheaper for us europeans? I mean we pay for it in dollars but now that that is going down vs the euro shouldn't that get cheaper? In the end cheaper oil is good for the economy Just as the more expensive oil in the US is hurting theirs (if I am to believe CNN)