European Politics Thread.

[Baff1]

The Russians sell plenty of things usable by the UK.
Their fighter bombers are pretty kickarse, navalised and likely cheap.

We dont have any naval fixed wing aircraft to replace. Nor any explicit need for any.
What theatre would they even be used in?

The F 35 needs stronger landing gear itself. And isn't currently expected to go into full production for another 7 years.

Given that the costs for F 35 are open ended and growing by the day... it's difficult to precisely weigh any comparative costs. However given that they cost over three times as much as a Eurofighter currently, and I would reasonably expect this price to increase...

What other nations have chosen for the F 18 doesn't concern me. Only what is the best buy for ours.

Made in the UK would be a bonus but not a necessity for a successful fleet air arm.


I would also agree that the UK however has entered into some sort of binding contractual agreement with the producers of the JSF to buy some. No idea what though.

[nettrucker]

these are the major corporations who profit from that deal.


Hotchkis and Wiley Capital Management owns 4.86M shares worth $393.31M
First Eagle Investment Management owns 3.84M shares worth $310.95M
Wellington Management Company owns 3.66M shares worth $295.74M
Allianz Global Investors of America owns 3.07M shares worth $248.26M
Veritas Asset Management owns 2.86M shares worth $231.35M
Barclays owns 2.76M shares worth $223.19M
Bank of America Corporation owns 2.48M shares worth $200.23M
Chieftain Capital Management owns 2.16M shares worth $175.08M
Tradewinds Global Investors owns 2.16M shares worth $178.52M
ARONSON JOHNSON ORTIZ owns 1.85M shares worth $149.96M
Geode Capital Management owns 1.84M shares worth $148.90M
Elm Ridge Management owns 1.49M shares worth $108.50M
GOLDMAN SACHS owns 1.49M shares worth $120.69M
Legal & General owns 1.32M shares worth $106.95M
TIAA-CREF Investment Management owns 1.21M shares worth $98.26M
Cornerstone Investment Partners owns 1.15M shares worth $103.01M
Mitsubishi UFJ Trust & Banking owns 1.11M shares worth $89.81M
New York State Common Retirement Fund owns 1.11M shares worth $89.62M
Sumitomo Mitsui Trust Holdings owns 1.07M shares worth $86.21M
CalPERS owns 1.06M shares worth $86.12M
Parallax Volatility Advisers owns 1.06M shares worth $85.46M
Herndon Capital Management owns 1.01M shares worth $82.23M
Pacific Heights Asset Management owns 1.01M shares worth $81.47M
Epoch Investment Partners owns 979191 shares worth $79.22M
Inves owns 898354 shares worth $72.68M
Artisan Partners Holdings owns 878167 shares worth $71.11M
Artisan Partners Limited Partnership owns 866840 shares worth $70.13M

http://stockzoa.com/ticker/lmt/

[PELHAM]

We dont have any naval fixed wing aircraft to replace. Nor any explicit need for any.
What theatre would they even be used in?

In May 1997, the newly elected Labour government launched the Strategic Defence Review (SDR) which re-evaluated every weapon system (active or in procurement). The report, published in July 1998 identified that aircraft carriers offered the following:
Ability to operate offensive aircraft abroad when foreign basing may be denied.
All required space and infrastructure; where foreign bases are available they are not always available early in a conflict and infrastructure is often lacking.
A coercive and deterrent effect when deployed to a trouble spot.

The report concluded: "the emphasis is now on increased offensive air power, and an ability to operate the largest possible range of aircraft in the widest possible range of roles. When the current carrier force reaches the end of its planned life, we plan to replace it with two larger vessels. Work will now begin to refine our requirements but present thinking suggests that they might be of the order of 30,000–40,000 tonnes and capable of deploying up to fifty aircraft, including helicopters."

The Labour Government locked the UK into a binding contract for these aircraft carriers, they can't be cancelled. So we need something to fly from them or are you suggesting they strap cargo containers to the decks and use them as the most expensive freight transports ever built? The need for Aircraft carriers is outlined in the above strategic defence review.

The F 35 needs stronger landing gear itself. And isn't currently expected to go into full production for another 7 years.

Not sure what you mean by that? The F35B/C the UK is intending to buy is in production already? Around 40 aircraft will be completed this year with peak production expected in 2016.
BAE delivers 50th rear fuselage section for F35
I would suggest you start checking facts before posting.
Here is the production line:

The sharp eyed and aircraft savvy will note that's the first production F35A. Here is an F35C testing the electromagnetic catapult expected to be installed on UK aircraft carriers:
edit: May or may not happen - seems they are still undecided over F35B orC?

[VanhA-ICON]

What other nations have chosen for the F 18 doesn't concern me. Only what is the best buy for ours.

We (Finland) bought 64 of those and are now totally screwed with them.
As in current economical situation we have no funds to arm them properly and US refused to sell AMRAAM for them. Then our imbecile government did not take into account that they can't get the armament at a same price as in US.
This was propably one of the reasons Finland did not send any planes to Libya.

[NoRailgunner]

Well there is time one can upgrade stuff and there is time when one need to replace old/obsolete stuff but without politics and lobbies it would be too easy to find & use "the best" solution....

[[EVO] Dan]

The first British F35B had its maiden flight today (or was it yesturday)?

[PELHAM]

The first British F35B had its maiden flight today (or was it yesturday)?

Yes the pictures are here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lockhee...n/photostream/

[Spooky Lynx]

The Russians sell plenty of things usable by the UK.
Their fighter bombers are pretty kickarse, navalised and likely cheap.

Now the only one is Mi-8s which are used for training And if I'm not mistaken, they aren't used anymore.

[Prydain]

The UK cannot just buy Russian hardware off the shelf. This naive nonsense is about on par as saying that the Typhoon is outdated... On that note, can we stop mentioning navalising the Typhoon on this forum? It is getting a bit retarded now, you cannot simply convert existing airframes or, within reasonable time-line or budget, redesign large sections and workings of an aircraft to make it navalised.

As far as the JCA is concerned, BK-1 is a B variant which is not the variant that the UK is procuring. If I am not mistaken the UK is locked into purchasing a few (4, I think) airframes before the production aircraft start to come so that picture isn't anything to get excited about.

[batto]

Good news

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/1...-proxy-illegal