European Politics Thread.

[Balschoiw]

Are there any numbers that show how people fall back into addiction over the years after an enforced therapy ?
This doesn´t sound like a sound solution to me supah.
It sounds like lobotomy and electro-shocks

[Supah]

Are there any numbers that show how people fall back into addiction over the years after an enforced therapy ?
This doesn´t sound like a sound solution to me supah.
It sounds like lobotomy and electro-shocks

It wont work with some people it will with others. Better to have tried and failed then to not have tried at all. I simply fail to see the good we do these people, their next of kin or society as a whole by letting them die in the gutter over overdoses. Alcoholism is becoming very treatable with certain medication. ATM their just left to run wild and be a nuisance. Ever have someone break into your house and shit in your couch? Happened to some friends of mine. All the stuff they worked hard for destroyed (not even stolen just trashed) and used needles everywhere. But oh yes that person has the right to not be too in touch with society, whiney burglary victims!

[colossus]

Quote[/b] ]Civilians are believed to be among 60 people killed
in clashes between police and rebels in Russia's volatile North
Caucasus, say Russian media reports.

Local officials say 50 gunmen were killed in the city of Nalchik,
the capital of Kabardino-Balkaria province.

Five police officers have also died, and several are being
hostage in a police station, a Kremlin envoy says.

Militants from nearby Chechnya say they attacked government
buildings, according to a pro-rebel website.

Kabardino-Balkaria lies close to war-ravaged Chechnya.

A school and the city's airport, as well as government
buildings, were all caught up in the running gun-battles.

'Extremist's arrest'

Regional President Arsen Kanokov told Itar-Tass news agency
that a third of the 150 rebels who took part in attacks had
been killed.

He also said 12 civilians had been killed.

Dmitry Kozak, President Vladimir Putin's special envoy to the
area, told Russian television that an operation was under way
to free hostages from No 3 police precinct. He did not say how
many hostages were being held.

A source at Nalchik's Republican Hospital told Ekho Moskvy
radio that 20 dead had been brought in, "all people in uniform".

At least 40 injured people had been taken to the hospital, with
more arriving all the time, the source added.

One unidentified security official has told Russian news agency
RIA that the reason for the attack was the arrest on
Wednesday of at least one radical extremist.

Frantic parents

Fighting broke out in the Belaya Rechka area early on Thursday
and spread to several parts of the city.

A local Interior Ministry source told Itar-Tass that rebels
launched a "carefully planned" simultaneous attack on police
stations, Russia's federal security forces, military and drugs-
control offices as well as the airport.

He said a security operation was under way across the city to
track down and kill the militants. Shooting is now said to be
sporadic.

"There was heavy fighting everywhere. Attacks have been
repelled, there have been fatalities and wounded," the official
said, but adding that some of the attackers had been
destroyed and scattered.

A school was also reportedly caught up in the fighting, but a
teacher said all the pupils were evacuated. Parents searched
frantically for their children in the school yard as black smoke
billowed overhead.

The BBC's Emma Simpson in Moscow says this appears to have
been an all-out attack on Nalchik's law enforcement and
security services.

The pro-rebel Kavkaz Center website said it had received
information from rebel sources that a unit of Chechen armed
forces had entered Nalchik.

It said it was a detachment of the Kabardino-Balkaria jamaat,
called Yarmuk. The use of the word jamaat indicates that it is
made up of radical Islamic fighters.

I wonder why they didn't detect this earlier, a big group like that should have been spotted maybe.
Hope this goes better then Beslan and the insident in the theater, although I have doubt about that.

EDIT: Sorry, for got the source BBC News

[Ares1978]

Well me basically? Over here vagrants and hobo's are responsible for the majority of crime and its not like their doing themselves a lot of good. Besides having a group of them hanging out in front of your bussiness virtually mugging your customers when they leave for change doesn't really help bussiness. I doubt their family is that glad with them dying of overdoses on the streets. I am all for imprisonment with therapy and forced rehab.

So you want them locked up because some of them might commit crimes? Because they annoy you?

[Balschoiw]

They are the source of all evil
"Doctor hand me the brainlaser please"

[Supah]

Its not "might" or "some" a large majority does commit crime. It's easy to talk away this behaviour as "those raskal drug addicts". Wait till you are a victim. Another part needs help to overcome alcohol addiction or mental problems. Anyone who has studied alcoholisme in detail knows that almost all alcoholics will deny having a problem. The same with people with mental illnesses, their not mad, the rest of humanity is. Anyway, this is dragging this topic offtopic I believe.

[Ares1978]

Its not "might" or "some" a large majority does commit crime. It's easy to talk away this behaviour as "those raskal drug addicts". Wait till you are a victim.

Even if it were the majority, it's still might and some. They should be arrested for the crimes they do commit, not just for being in a state that might drive them to commit crimes. If you're so afraid, get a gun.

[Ironsight]

Not sure to put this in the European Politics or War on Terror topic.

From BBC.com

Quote[/b] ]Dutch police make terror arrests

Six men and a woman were detained in raids in The Hague, Amsterdam and nearby Almere, the national prosecutor's office said.

They include one man recently acquitted of planning terror attacks.

Police did not comment on reports of gunshots in The Hague during Friday's arrest operation.

Riot police moved in to strengthen security at the Binnenhof castle in the city where Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende and others have offices.

The BBC's Geraldine Coughlan reports that the arrests come a day after renewed threats against two members of parliament, Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders.

Both are outspoken critics of radical Islam.

Rearrested

Among those held on Friday was Samir Azzouz, a Dutch teenager of Moroccan origin who had been acquitted in April of plotting attacks on Amsterdam airport, government buildings and a nuclear reactor.

"He is suspected of preparing attacks, together with other persons, on several politicians and government buildings," the prosecutor's office said on Friday.

No details of the other six suspects, said to be aged between 18 and 30, were immediately given.

The Netherlands has been on a terror alert since the London bombings in July.

Police were injured by a hand grenade in The Hague last year when they arrested two terror suspects following the murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.

BTW: Samir Azzouz was not the only one who got rearrested Jermaine W. got rearrested too. The last on has been accused of being a member of the "Hofstad Group" a Dutch muslim terrorism organisation who also slaughtered Theo van Gogh.

From CNN.com

Quote[/b] ]7 held in Dutch anti-terror raids

Friday, October 14, 2005; Posted: 7:42 a.m. EDT (11:42 GMT)

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- Dutch authorities detained seven suspects in a national anti-terrorism operation Friday, officials said.

The chief suspect in the raids in three cities was Samir Azzouz, a 19-year-old Dutch national of Moroccan descent who was acquitted of terrorism charges earlier this year.

Azzouz was allegedly in the process of purchasing automatic weapons and explosives, "probably to carry out an attack with others on several politicians and a government building," a prosecution statement said.

Can't believe they haven't nailed Azzouz earlier. Does there actually need to happen an attack before someone goes to jail.........

[GoOB]

Come on goOB, I don't know what romantic perspective you've been led on but most homeless people here are either:

1. Junkies
2. Alcoholics
3. Mental Patients

Yes, but that still doesn't change the fact that in one of your posts you simply wrote them off as a nuisance, and being bad for business. They may be to some people, but why the ones that do not commit crimes should be arrested and forced into rehab is beyond me. Some actually CHOOSE being homeless, for other reasons than those mentioned, but yeah. Most of them qualify under one or more of those categories you listed. And I'm sorry if my post made it seem like I didn't beleive that.

But the fact that they may be junkies or whatever doesn't change their value as individuals. And that they shouldn't be considered a nuisance, since they are a product of the society they live in. They aren't socially outcast because they are alcoholics or drug addicts, they are drug addicts and alcoholics since they were socially outcast before they became what they are now. So IMO some form of preventive measures should be applied. Instead of forced rehab and therapy.


And I don't have friends who have worked with homeless people, Iv'e done it myself (soup kitchens, "blanket detail" etc.). And it might have given me a "romantic perspective" but I admire many of the people that are homeless that I have spoken to. Since many of them really struggle to try to keep clean, whilst being pushed out of dirty subway stations into a -18 degree night. And that without a minimal ammount of help from any form of authority. They stay alive, in spite of not really having anything to live for.

[denoir]

Although I disagree that they should be preemptively locked up, supah does have a point. To become homeless in Europe (most of it anyway), you must really really fuck up. Just "bad luck" isn't enough as the social grid covers that. Those that slip through that grid have to put in an effort. So you won't find many homeless people that are not drug addicts or hopeless alcoholics that have been given help, but refused it in one way or another.

One notable exception, at least here in Sweden are the mental cases. Unfortunately they can fall off the grid, thanks to a very messed up line of thinking on the part of the government. Since the 70's the policy (based on ideology rather than medical reasoning) has been to try to integrate moderately mentally ill people into society. The idea was that mental institutions are inhumane and that these people are better off living in society - that it would increase their chances of living normal lives. And sure in some cases it works, but in others it don't. Thanks to that very questionable ideology we have people on the streets who should really be in hospitals.