Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Longinius

Ancient Wars

Recommended Posts

Maybe this is to off topic for off topic, but its about war and history and its a discussion without modern politics, so it should be a nice break from the heavier subjects.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone here ever had thought about, or researched, ancient civilizations and the theories that surround them?

As a basis for the discussion, if you dont really know much about it, I offer this article:

http://www.crystalinks.com/ancientaircraft.html

Its a quite wild theory for most people, but I find it interesting to talk about and discuss with people. Since many of the people here like to debate, are interested in history and warfare and have a generally open mind I'd just like to hear your thoughts around this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL

Well im quite interested in ancient history, expecially the less widely known (and even enigmatic) parts such as Bactria after the conquests of Alexander (a greek kingdom on the borders of India) or the nomadic Scythians. I also find the meeting of diparate cultures and the clashes of ancient civilisations quite fascinating, but i would suggest people be wary of a lot of the 'facts' that can be found online. As for the particular link you posted Longinius i think this says it all

Quote[/b] ]Ancient Egyptian Flying Vehicles-....One common thread that often runs between "Alien kidnappings," "sex with aliens," and other "close encounters of a third kind" is a buzzing in the ears just before the encounter.

According to many well informed people, this is a sure sign of telepathic hypnosis.

tounge_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, well, I warned you it was pretty wild smile_o.gif

However, if you start poking around you will find very interesting food for thought even in those texts. Much of that which is mentioned is based on document facts. Like the findings of carvings and hireoglyphs, the stone buildings with melted walls, the pearls of glass, various unexplained artifacts etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uhuh, Longinius i dont know a polite way to say this but this is rubbish. Theres no way Ashoka sent men to the moon and there is no way Atlantis tried to subjugate the ancient world with advanced flying machines. tounge_o.gif

A- Atlantis does not exist, there may be a greek island that got obliterated similar to Thera of the Ancient Minoans but certainly no Atlantis of legend

B- Theres no way the ancient Indians had advanced flying machines powered by gasoline or mercury (WTF?), all the evidence comes from ancient sources from a credulous culture immersed in myth and legend convinced that people can levitate using the power of the mind

C-Atlantis would likely have succeeded in subjugating much of the world with advanced flying machines, in which case we would know more about it

I could attempt to go and type a comprehensive rebuttal of that page but, apart from me not being best qualified, it would be more effort than its worth. Its sheer Lovecraft.

There are plenty of mysteries in archaeology and history but throwing a few of them together, adding some myths and outright lies and then spinning a story out of it is not a good way to proceed for any legitimate historian.

(skeptical) BBC article on the Atlantis controversy- http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/greeks/atlantis_01.shtml

I admit all the sensationalist myths/conspiracy theories are fun to read and speculate about though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote[/b] ]Uhuh, Longinius i dont know a polite way to say this but this is rubbish. Theres no way Ashoka sent men to the moon and there is no way Atlantis tried to subjugate the ancient world with advanced flying machines.

And I never said so either. I offered the article as a basis for discussion since it pretty much sums up the idea that there might have been very advanced civilizations before us, some even so advanced that they had discovered flight. I far from view everything in that article as true or even plausible.

Quote[/b] ]A- Atlantis does not exist, there may be a greek island that got obliterated similar to Thera of the Ancient Minoans but certainly no Atlantis of legend

Thats a pretty mighty statement considering there are still people all over the world convinced Atlantis, in one form or another, existed. What makes you so sure it never did?

Quote[/b] ]B- Theres no way the ancient Indians had advanced flying machines powered by gasoline or mercury (WTF?), all the evidence comes from ancient sources from a credulous culture immersed in myth and legend convinced that people can levitate using the power of the mind

Why would it be impossible? Why would our civilization have to be the first one that reached this point in technological advancement?

Quote[/b] ]I could attempt to go and type a comprehensive rebuttal of that page but, apart from me not being best qualified, it would be more effort than its worth. Its sheer Lovecraft.

Like stated previously, that page isnt to be taken as absolute truth or as the only point of information for this discussion. It is simply about the theory that there might have been very advanced civilizations before our present one.

Quote[/b] ]I admit all the sensationalist myths/conspiracy theories are fun to read and speculate about though

My point exactly. Its food for thought and discussion, of course not something to be seen as fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as a man deeply in love with Australia. I keep reserching the Eureka Stockade. Only happened 50 km from where I live.

What happen is the gold miners and police started a shoot out and it turned into a stockade.

What I'm also interested is the English Invasion/landing of Australia. I know I'm of English/Sweedid decended but they came a kill/poisoned the indiginoes people of Australia. Makes me think sometimes. smile_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Longinius-

Quote[/b] ]" Atlantis does not exist, there may be a greek island that got obliterated similar to Thera of the Ancient Minoans but certainly no Atlantis of legend"

Thats a pretty mighty statement considering there are still people all over the world convinced Atlantis, in one form or another, existed. What makes you so sure it never did?

Im sure the Atlantis of myth that many people imagine and that Plato writes of (if taken literally) under no circumstances existed.

From the BBC article i posted

Quote[/b] ]According to Plato, Atlantis was a great island (larger than Libya and Asia combined) in the Atlantic Ocean, but its control extended beyond the 'Pillars of Heracles' into the Mediterranean as far as Egypt and Tyrrhenia (Italy). Its powerful and remarkable dynasty of kings arose directly from Poseidon, god of sea and of earthquakes, though this divine and heroic lineage gradually became diluted by mixing with mortal stock.

Kings descended from Poseidon, an island larger than asia (minor?) and Libya combined sinking into the atlantic? As i suggested, there may be some truth behind this myth though as there quite often is. This is the ancient source on which the Atlantis myth is based. What makes it more credible than a parable from the bible?

The Atlantis i believe -may- have existed would be so far from the ideas of these 'wild' theorists that there is no practical similarity. When the remains of the first ancient aircraft or nuclear silo are excavated give me call....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote[/b] ]When the remains of the first ancient aircraft or nuclear silo are excavated give me call....

And your number is? smile_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Helicopters? Planes? What helicopters, what planes? All I saw was naked women. rock.gifrock.gifwink_o.gif

It's a nice little Rorschach test but nothing really more to it than seeing forms and shapes in cloud formations or connecting stars to form figures.

The latter (star constellations) is actually a very appropriate analogy. They change over time and in each cenury people have mad association to objects that were current back then - for the same set of stars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now I'm reading The Greco-Persian Wars by Peter Green, which details the series of conflicts between the Achaemenid Persian Empire and the assorted Greek city-states, from Marathon all the way through the Pelopennesian Wars. Great stuff. Also my damn seminar professor has us reading a biography on Alexander the Great, so... yeah. I'm up to my ass in ancient wars at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
as a man deeply in love with Australia. I keep reserching the Eureka Stockade. Only happened 50 km from where I live.

What happen is the gold miners and police started a shoot out and it turned into a stockade.

What I'm also interested is the English Invasion/landing of Australia. I know I'm of English/Sweedid decended but they came a kill/poisoned the indiginoes people of Australia. Makes me think sometimes. smile_o.gif

Batdog, Anything that involved Europeans in Australia can be considered mordern history, I assure you! tounge_o.gifwink_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A- Atlantis does not exist, there may be a greek island that got obliterated similar to Thera of the Ancient Minoans but certainly no Atlantis of legend

Wait a second, I read something about this the other month!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3766863.stm

Quote[/b] ]Satellite photos of southern Spain reveal features on the ground appearing to match descriptions made by Greek scholar Plato of the fabled utopia.

Dr Rainer Kuehne thinks the "island" of Atlantis simply referred to a region of the southern Spanish coast destroyed by a flood between 800 BC and 500 BC.

The research has been reported as an ongoing project in the online edition of the journal Antiquity.

Satellite photos of a salt marsh region known as Marisma de Hinojos near the city of Cadiz show two rectangular structures in the mud and parts of concentric rings that may once have surrounded them.

"Plato wrote of an island of five stades (925m) diameter that was surrounded by several circular structures - concentric rings - some consisting of Earth and the others of water. We have in the photos concentric rings just as Plato described," Dr Kuehne told BBC News Online.

Dr Kuehne believes the rectangular features could be the remains of a "silver" temple devoted to the sea god Poseidon and a "golden" temple devoted to Cleito and Poseidon - all described in Plato's dialogue Critias.

Temples of the sea god

The identification of the site with Atlantis was first proposed by Werner Wickboldt, a lecturer and Atlantis enthusiast who spotted the rectangles and concentric rings by studying photographs from across the Mediterranean for signs of the city described by Plato.

The sizes of the "island" and its rings in the satellite image are slightly larger than those described by Plato. There are two possible explanations for this, says Dr Kuehne.

First, Plato may have underplayed the size of Atlantis. Secondly, the ancient unit of measurement used by Plato - the stade - may have been 20% larger than traditionally assumed.

If the latter is true, one of the rectangular features on the "island" matches almost exactly the dimensions given by Plato for the temple of Poseidon.

Mr Wickboldt explained: "This is the only place that seems to fit [Plato's] description."

He added that the Greeks might have confused an Egyptian word referring to a coastline with one meaning "island" during transmission of the Atlantis story.

Commenting on the satellite image showing the two "temples", Tony Wilkinson, an expert in the use of remote sensing in archaeology at the University of Edinburgh, UK, told BBC News Online: "A lot of the problems come with interpretations. I can see something there and I could imagine that one could interpret it in various ways. But you've got several leaps of faith here.

Metal trading

"We use the imagery to recognise certain types of imprint on the ground and then do [in the field] verification on them. Based on what we see on the ground we make an interpretation.

"What we need here is a date range. Otherwise, you're just dealing with morphology. But the [features] are interesting."

The fabled utopia of Atlantis has captured the imagination of scholars for centuries. The earliest known records of this mythical land appear in Plato's dialogues Critias and Timaios.

His depiction of a land of fabulous wealth, advanced civilisation and natural beauty has spurred many adventurers to seek out its location.

One recent theory equates Atlantis with Spartel Island, a mud shoal in the straits of Gibraltar that sank into the sea 11,000 years ago.

Plato described Atlantis as having a "plain". Dr Kuehne said this might be the plain that extends today from Spain's southern coast up to the city of Seville. The high mountains described by the Greek scholar could be the Sierra Morena and Sierra Nevada.

"Plato also wrote that Atlantis is rich in copper and other metals. Copper is found in abundance in the mines of the Sierra Morena," Dr Kuehne explained

Dr Kuehne noticed that the war between Atlantis and the eastern Mediterranean described in Plato's writings closely resembled attacks on Egypt, Cyprus and the Levant during the 12th Century BC by mysterious raiders known as the Sea People.

As a result, he proposes that the Atlanteans and the Sea People were in fact one and the same.

This dating would equate the city and society of Atlantis with either the Iron Age Tartessos culture of southern Spain or another, unknown, Bronze Age culture. A link between Atlantis and Tartessos was first proposed in the early 20th Century.

Dr Kuehne said he hoped to attract interest from archaeologists to excavate the site. But this may be tricky. The features in the satellite photo are located within Spain's Donana national park.

I read up on Tartessos and I have to admit that a link between Atlantis and Tartessos is very likely. However, I don't buy into any of this "secret energy forms and travelling to the moon crap", I just think that they were a few centuries ahead of the Eastern Mediterranean, after the Minoan Culture was all but wiped out by the explosion of Thera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember something from Ancient history class. There may have also been a civilisation in the mediterranian that could be beleived to have been Atlantis. One such island was had a massive volcanic eruption that caused massive waves and the likes. They suspected that it was a fishing civilisation with a large naval power. But the large wave had destroyed most of its navy, and other civilisations took advantage of the situation and invaded.

I wish we did more on it, but our only source was a video we watched and some shoddy notes. The teach was gone that day.

*edit*

Nevermind, Hellfish6 had it at the end. I didn't see that last part of his post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember something from Ancient history class. There may have also been a civilisation in the mediterranian that could be beleived to have been Atlantis. One such island was had a massive volcanic eruption that caused massive waves and the likes. They suspected that it was a fishing civilisation with a large naval power. But the large wave had destroyed most of its navy, and other civilisations took advantage of the situation and invaded.

I wish we did more on it, but our only source was a video we watched and some shoddy notes. The teach was gone that day.

You are talking about the Minoan Culture smile_o.gif They are the ones that built the palace at Knossos on Crete, amongst other ancient structures. They are also the ones that used Daidalos and Ikarus to build the catacombs for the Minotaur for them.

Yeah, the same Daidalos and Ikarus that later flew off Crete by using their own, home-made wings. Unfortunately, one of them flew too close to the sun, the wax used to hold his wings together melted, and he fell into the sea. smile_o.gif It all fits wink_o.gifbiggrin_o.gif

Anyway, the Minoan Culture found an abrupt end when the volcano on Thera (or Santorini) exploded and took half the island with it. You can walk on the (still active) volcano, btw smile_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nevermind, Hellfish6 had it at the end. I didn't see that last part of his post.

rock.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nevermind, Hellfish6 had it at the end. I didn't see that last part of his post.

rock.gif

He mentioned the minoian civilisation and explosion of thera at the end of his post. I couldn't remember that part of my history that well, and I only noticed after posintg that Fish had mentioned them already.

*added*

AHHHH! I'm losing my mind today. YOU posted that. Not fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
as a man deeply in love with Australia. I keep reserching the Eureka Stockade. Only happened 50 km from where I live.

What happen is the gold miners and police started a shoot out and it turned into a stockade.

What I'm also interested is the English Invasion/landing of Australia. I know I'm of English/Sweedid decended but they came a kill/poisoned the indiginoes people of Australia. Makes me think sometimes. smile_o.gif

Batdog, Anything that involved Europeans in Australia can be considered mordern history, I assure you! tounge_o.gif  wink_o.gif

no wonder i failed Australian history tounge_o.gif

But I count it as ancient for some wierd reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tex [uSMC]-

Quote[/b] ]Also my damn seminar professor has us reading a biography on Alexander the Great, so... yeah. I'm up to my ass in ancient wars at the moment.

Good stuff, ive just been reading one myself. Its a good time as theres a bunch of films on Alexander around/on the way at the moment of which Oliver Stones looks biggest and best. Not totally sure about the casting of Colin Farrell as the man himself though. Hmmm

Ex-RoNiN-

Quote[/b] ]Anyway, the Minoan Culture found an abrupt end when the volcano on Thera (or Santorini) exploded and took half the island with it. You can walk on the (still active) volcano, btw

Yeah, beautiful place too (black beaches, topless women). smile_o.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×