Problem with lods

[Chris Death]

Well, i'm working on these cement barriers - my first addon
since i decided to head over from mission making to addon making - but that's another story.

here's a link to the thread in a&d mods discussion so that
you can see what it is, i'm talking about:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....4;st=15

I ran into a problem with my geo lod.

AI is shooting through them - i too tried to shoot through them, it can be done. Not everywhere but near the ends of
the geo lods.

Therefore i got a few questions, before messing around with it at maybe the wrong place;

a)
When using named properties (i got: map : wall - class : wall - dammage : no) for the geo lod - do i need to create a fire lod
too, or should this be covered by the geo lod?
I've read so many forum threads and tutes now, but i couldn't
get really exact answers for that yet (most ppl comming up
with: "forget it i already solved the problem")

:update - i've already tried to add a fire lod:
x: - 25 - y: 1 - z: 0.5
named properties:
LodNoShadow : 1

This didn't help not to let shots through

Maybe i should add here that:

I didn't binarize anything yet because of work in progress.
Could this be the reason that the lods with named properties
aren't doing their job right or is there still something else wrong.

b)
As i've read in brsseb's tutorial, the geo lod must not break through the basic shape - is this true or doesn't it matter, wether let's say the geo lod is not brighter but higher than
the basic shape?

c)
I got 5 meter blocks - 25 meter sections - 50 meter sections lined up close together - then i got the same 3 kinds with about 30 centimeters of space inbetween them.
(also i created for each 25 and 50 meter section a version
with one end piece).

Now AI always tries to run around them instead of walking through the 30 centimeter spaces - even if it's no problem for
players.

Do i need to make AI paths into these gaps, or would that only
lead to the fact that vehicles would then too try to drive through there?

OK these were my questions, i don't think they're too hard
to be answered, as i already mentioned some possible answers


~S~ CD

[BraTTy]

I can help answer some:

Not binarizing (sp) isn't your problem,you are correct that you have a in progress addon and when you binarize you may encounter new problems,but it all should work well before binarize,if anything binarizing may mess it up.

The geo lod can be bigger than the actual model and often it needs to be.Making the geo lod structure larger will help things like:seeing thru your model because you might be able to walk into it some
Making it larger some may actually help alot

The fire lod will only give the AI a basis of where it can shoot,what parts are peneratrable (ie:windows,holes)
And what parts it can hit (put proxies there if they are able to get hit)
So I doubt thats your problem

I think it must be in your geometry lod,so some geometry hints:

Make it very simple,doesn't need to look like your actual model.
Make it like you are making a LEGO structure,with no parts intersecting and such,simple blocks
Do not texture anything there and do not highlight any vertices (shining)
Each part must be named (find components works well)
Each part must have some mass

maybe that helps some

[hardrock]

a) Generally fire geo LOD is covered by the geometry LOD, only make a fire geo if you have a very complex shape that isn't exactly covered by the geo LOD and that has to be more detailed in the fire geo.
For the geometry LOD as well as the fire geo applies: structures have to be convex. Also every single object has to be named with "Component01", where the number is ascending. To achieve this select "Structure">"Convexity">"Component Convex Hull", every single object will be named right and the hull will be a bit transformed to be convex. Now it should neither be possible to walk nor to shoot through (if the faces aren't inverted&#33

b) In fact it doesn't matter if the geo LOD breaks through the basic model or not. The geo LOD only defines where collision is detected between the model itself and other models. Because of that geo LODs can (and should) be very basic, only with some boxes or simple shapes. Brsseb tells that in his tutorials because it doesn't look very good if you run against "air", means against a part of the geo LOD that isn't covered by a visible LOD.

c) Do you mean you place these parts in the editor or already in O2? You could try to make a "Path" LOD, shouldn't matter for cars as well as with forests, ever seen a car trying to drive into a forest in OFP?

[BraTTy]

Now AI always tries to run around them instead of walking through the 30 centimeter spaces - even if it's no problem for
players.

Do i need to make AI paths into these gaps, or would that only
lead to the fact that vehicles would then too try to drive through there?

Path wouldn't hurt of course (dunno I mostly fancy vehicle addons)

But it is possible that the AI just can't see where to walk,did you make a "View Geometry" lod.

[Chris Death]

Thx for your quick replies Bratty and hardrock.

This helps alot of better understanding the whole lod thingy.

I can't try it out atm - need to get at least 5 hours of sleep
before goin to work but i think i found a few things
in theory upon your hints.

a) not each lod part of the geo lods is named;
if you meant that.

Let me explain:

i made let's say 5 x 5 basic shapes
+ 5 x 5 geo lods for them
Now there's only Component01 here

Did you mean i would need Component01 - 05? - if so then
everything's clear for that part.

b)
A "view geo lod" i haven't made
path lods neither too

Would i need both then or would be one of these two enough?

wow - i can't await 'till i'm back from work 15 hours from now

thx again for your explanations - this makes much more sense to me now.

~S~ CD

[Chris Death]

OK, i couldn't go to bed before having tried that once more ***

You know what? I got it to work now
No more bullets going through the cement barriers

ctrl-a + "Structure">"Convexity">"Component Convex Hull"
brought 5 times more components then i expected.

This must have happened during copy/paste of the objects.

I then got rid of all useless components (a whole lot of single
points) and did again the: "Structure">"Convexity">"Component Convex Hull" with
all remaining lod objects being selected.

Then the number of components did match with objects being
placed.

OK, AI ist still running around those, but that shouldn't be
a problem upon your advice anymore ***

I believe path's will do the job, since AI is able to shoot through the gaps which lets me think they can see through.

cheers guys

~S~ CD

[hardrock]

If you haven't got a view geometry LOD, OFP will use the geo LOD instead (as with fire geo LOD).

Your path LOD had to be very simple I think. Only a single face for each hole in your model, that had to face the top. It has not to cover the hole exactly, it can be smaller but should reach from one side to the other side so the AI knows that it can get through at this point.

Have a look at the original buildings and woods with ODOL explorer, I think that could help a lot.

[Status_cz]

zwad´s tutorial about LOD ,make sure if you read it carefully.

[Chris Death]

Well, trying to add path lods, i ran into another problem;

First i should say: yes i have read zwadars tutorial, but
i couldn't really find much more info about path lods than
in brsseb's tute.

OK, now my problem:

I've made simple plane objects in path lod inbetween the
gaps of my barriers. Now when i order a man to move to
there, the game just crashes to desktop without a message.

I've also tried to name vertice pairs like: in1 - in2 - etc.
This didn't help either -> crash to desktop.

Then i tried another thing;

Instead of my test barriere, i've used one which has no path lods, but i added the AI paths from 3WX pack, to see if that
helps.

Well, AI started running through the gaps, but again in a certain moment the game crashed to desktop. This btw came even a bit unexpected for me
This certain moment was exactly when one of the AI units was
passing a gap between the barriers.

Without using paths, i couldn't recreate the crash, so i'm quite
sure the ctd is due to the paths.

Is there any rule for paths to be followed (like: minimum size - don't touch geo-lod - exactly on the ground - naming of objects)?

P.S: for some reason i can't get ODOL explorer to work anymore - it did already, but now it doesn't anymore - therefore i couldn't have a look onto the paths in the forrests
like being mentioned here - but i think zwadar did show such
an example in his tutorial.

~S~ CD

[hardrock]

The only thing I could find out in the BIS forests:

It's equal if the faces point to the top or to the bottom.

Every point where the AI can get in/get out is named "in1", "in2", ascending. That means, only ONE point is named, not a pair. If you have a pair, name only one of the two points.

All faces have the property (Shift+E) "Keep height (fence)"

They all lay exactly and totally flat on the X-axis, not below, not above.

It seems that size doesnt matter, but the faces are rather thin.

So, that's all I could find out, hope it helps somehow