Recent development...

[vektorboson]

I'll just have to say this, because it's something that is really going the wrong way.

We had this thread about the whiners and bitching people who never were happy with any addon maker's work. With this mentioned thread and the closure of OFP.info comment system, I think addon makers have an easier life.

First I'll explain how I see the development process for myself. I began as a scripter in the community and my intention was always to exploit the engine as much as possible; besides this, whenever I found a way to do something, I wanted to share it with the community because of one thing: To make the game we all play more enjoyable, realistic and just a better experience.

I always saw it as an open development process. I looked at other people's code, I took ideas from other people's work and I tried, tried and tried. I try to reimplement something or to implement something new, in a way that the community gets something newer and better. Other people profit from this work from me, and they take code and solutions I released, improve it, or they just bundle it with an addon or whatever.

The scripting progress in the community was probably the fastest and the richest, and still new solutions are found and some engine bugs/limitations can be overgone. The scripting progress was basically a scientific one:
People are demanding solutions for their problems; someone tries to solve this problem and he finds probably a way to; the script code is being released either stand alone or with an addon; other people can look into the code, improve it, find bugs or use it as a base for new solutions.

This way you get a huge script repository and we have lots of tutorials regarding scripting and relative topics (resources, dialogs, a.s.o.). Scripting also seems to be more a intellectual challenge than modelling, island making and texturing, which are time consuming and require a lot of patience (of course you need talent and the right tools).

Nevertheless there are many more people willing to share their code and solutions in scripting than in other areas of OFP modifying. My interest in this is, what are the reasons why people don't want to share their models and textures?
Why are people instead trying to do everything possible to prevent people from modifying their addons?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you should give away all your hard work to this "ungratefull" community. I hate it, when someone is using work he didn't do himself and does not give any credit to the original author.

The point is: In the modelling and texturing area everyone has to go either the way creating models and textures from scratch, or he has to ask some addon maker. And in the latter case no-one can guarantee that the addon maker will say yes. Actually I wanted to derive my work from someone's work, but the original author said No.
Guess what? Now I have to go all the hard way in recreating a model from scratch that someone else has already done. It's not hard to imagine that this takes away time from other projects you are doing or you are planning. And this made me really upset.

Instead of switching to an open method of addon developing where all addon resources are free to use for other addon makers (with crediting), we are going the other way, people want to build up their egos instead by restricting the user's rights in using an addon.

The recent usage of new PBOs which you have to edit in a Hex Editor, before you can open them in UnPBO (well I actually didn't try it yet, but I guess I'd find it quickly) is making me sad. I remember where people were willing to help people in Decrypting Resistance PBOs and people thanked for this help.
Now those people who are able to tell someone how to change those PBOs are asses if they tell it. I'm pointing now at CSLA and Inquisitor. It makes me upset because CSLA Mod uses free to use and free to modify Scripts from me, while they chose to say that people who open their PBOs are "cracking" their addons, or they want to rip their addons.

I think that this is not OK, and if people chose the restrict the usage of their addons in such a way, I am going to restrict everything that was created by me in the opposite way.

I'm thinking about a "viral" license like the GPL for everything I created so far. For those who don't know: The GPL is a license which forces you to release the sources to the binaries (compiled software) you gave (free or sold) to someone, even if you were using only portions of GPL code.

It's very easy then: People have the right and possibilty to "secure" their work and restrict usage of their addons. So I have the right to release my work with such a license that forces everyone who is using it, to release their addons in an open and editable format.

Just think about it: You are profiting from other people's work; why should that guy who released his work open and free profit from your work and modify it to his pleasure?

And to make sure: I am in no way for unauthorized usage of other people's work, or for just giving away your work.

All I want is, that if you use free and open work (and tutorials count as free work, too) that you you take over the sense of this open development because there are people who made a lot of basic work just to make it possible for you to create additional content for OFP as easily as possible.

I thank to every addon maker who releases his work free to use and without restrictions, but I thank also those who leave their PBOs easy extractable and their config.cpp unencrypted.
And my biggest thanks goes to everyone who contributed tutorials and documentation about creating OFP content, and the necessary tools of course. Without those people we would be probably in Addon Nirvana.

[toadlife]

So the nutters have found a way to 'encrypt' pbo's eh? Lame.

Quote[/b] ]It makes me upset because CSLA Mod uses free to use and free to modify Scripts from me, while they chose to say that people who open their PBOs are "cracking" their addons, or they want to rip their addons.

Double lame

[hardrock]

I could quote nearly everything you said, VB. It's true, nobody can say he found out all the stuff with O2 and scripting himself. EVERYBODY used others work to see how they did it, and was therefore able to develop new technologies and better addons, now, just because he thinks his work is better or more important he encrypts it so everybody else has to go the same hard way developing addons of that quality. I think it's alright if people binarize their p3ds and cpps to increase the performance, but they at least should also release a pack of with everything decrypted.

Think of mankind: If there weren't schools or hadn't ever been any people who shared their knowledge to others, we wouldn't be sitting in front of this computer, rather we would be hunting our next meal....

If addon makers would release their addons as open source with a detailed readme, everybody else could learn from it and would himself have an easier way developing addons.

But another important point in my opinion is the other way round. Also many addon makers refuse to use "open source" or code from others because they think they have to do everything theirselves, and that otherwise the addon wouldn't be as good. That's simply wrong! If we all work together closer instead of going 200 different ways, the development and also the usage of addons would be much easier.


Just according the encrypted PBOs: There is a way to decrypt them with a tool called CutPBO
put the PBO in a NONSPACED directory, e.g. C:\Temp\, put CutPBO in the same folder and execute all in the command line as follows: CutPBO MyPBO.pbo

[BraTTy]

I know...why are people so selfish...and what about the modmakers that got O2 before me and learned how to make addons and left.I was starting with only some basic tutorials (thankx Col Klink and Bresseb) and at the time only a few openable addons really (for what I wanted to do anyways)
And I am not one to pry anyways,I would rather do it myself and it would be my work after

Alot of the addons that are protected often have many parts that were not even made by the author

I believe in helping people and I help most any chance I can,often it goes un-noticed ,but thats ok...like the old saying:
Give a boy a fish you have fed him a meal,teach him to fish you have fed him for life

I have some technology that I hide too,mainly because people aren't so giving.I may inform soon,but I plan on releasing in time,in the past I would have informed the community at first chance

Weird that people don't give permission to rework their addons (maybe they get insulted and think its perfect already?)
I would be honored if someone wanted to refresh an addon I did.Not that I have done that many
But in my Corsair I had a friend finish the textures , that work is his now and I very much appreciate it.I couldn't give those away and maybe thats the situation with the addon you wanted to do?

[Placebo]

I think selfish is an unfairly harsh and inflammatory word to use, by definition I cannot see how addon makers can be considered selfish when they're using their own free time to create something to give out to other people for free, that is not an example of a selfish act.

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]by definition I cannot see how addon makers can be considered selfish when they're using their own free time to create something to give out to other people for free, that is not an example of a selfish act.

They're using stuff created in other peoples' spare time (Tutorials and old models) so that they can make their own models.

[BraTTy]

True Placebo , suppose another word is needed.

And I mean no disrespect towards addonmakers and of course the ones that don't share too,I still enjoy just the use of the addon.

I would like to list a few reason why I think someone may not allow disecting or rework of their addons:

1. Don't own all the parts (ie: textures)

2.Worried about duplicate inferior addons that may hinder the originals unusable

3. May rework the addon to an incredible level and embarass the original author(s)

4. Has borrowed parts in it ( parts used without permssion)

5. Doesn't want to give away his work

6. The permission to edit gets extended to other parties without the original authors knowledge (ie: i say you can edit something and release and after release of yours you allow others to do same to yours)

7. Credits to author might not get honored with release

8. Some work within the addon may have flaws and may not be best work and author may be embarassed from that

Those are a few off top of my head

[Balschoiw]

I did never understand those attrocities among mod makers. Well my home is mission editing and sharing is all what it´s about. I would never hade access to all those editor functions without the initial and ongoing help of other editors like RED or others here or the guys at the AEf forums.
Now I try to help people as good as I can as others do also.
It´s always been a coop game
Maybe if the model coding would have been more accesible to a broader community like the editor was, all that "I got something you don´t have" - mentality wouldn´t even exist.

Just my 00,2 cents

[Sanctuary]

I thought that the word community included sharing knowledge and helping other members.

Usually , you learn a lot by studying and observing what other people have done, the same people learned from BIS work by looking at their PBO.
The mission editing community that Balschoiw wrote about, is the perfect example of that. Someone has a problem , lot of people will try to help or will share their own scripts or missions triggers .

I can understand that an addon maker does not want to see his model stolen and released by someone else.
But , i cant understand why an addon maker does not want people to look at their work , to let them learn from those observations.
That is really beyond my understanding.

just my 0,0000002 euros

[Ebud]

long ramble

I think if someone doesn't want someone else to use/modify their work then they are more than entitled to that option. There are lot's of friendly, helpful people around to make up for it. I specifically worked on my jungle island for that very reason and left it all open source, so people could edit it, tear it apart, use it, whatever. Now I don't feel the same way about other things i worked on. Call me selfish or greedy, but there are certain things that I just don't want others using, simple as that. Partly because sometimes it's the mood I'm in. One day a stranger could ask to use something I made and I'll give them the files plus help them however I can, next day I may tell someone to get lost. I think encrypting pbos so that others cannot edit the files for their own use is kinda shitty, but hey, it's THEIR choice, and I sure as hell won't complain about it, and I sometimes don't blame them. The CSLA mod is a good example. They made a totally new experience, not just an addon. I don't blame them for wanting to keep the integrity of the package. It's like when Tonal first came out. It wasn't just an addon, but a whole new populated 3rd world country. Not 2 hours after it was out people wanted to use it to make their own islands. Now it's far from perfect, but it did take 3-4 months to do, and at the time my thoughts were "Screw you, I didn't stay up late for 3-4 months, get no sleep, skip work, blow off friends, tear my hair out, work with a group of people making a small 3rd world country who saw me more than my family and friends just so you can skip the hard work and go straight into wrpedit and make an island in a week. Not gonna happen, YOU spend the time and make your own damn work." Now I could care less as the newness has worn off. Thats why we initially said no to people who wanted to use the stuff, and why I started something to fill that void.

It's not that most addon makers are greedy, ego-maniacs, selfish, etc. If you contact them personally most have no problem helping someone. I think that open source mods/addons could be a good thing only if everyone participated and I don't see that happening soon. Nice idea though.