War on drugs?

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

I think you should read it because
a) its about the nightstalker mod, not OFP2
b) it still only has infantry combat - which is not why a lot of people play OFP.
c)

Quote[/b] ](pathy) i hope BIS doesnt make a war on drugs campaign

[Pathy]

Quote[/b] ]I don't want a 'game' of shooting ill-equipped, untrained, hopeless, cowardly 'enemies' who just cannot fight back effectively. It's not fun just to own the enemy with no chance of being defeated, as any kind of 'war on drugs' campaign would be.

There are over 25000 guerillas, all well armed and equipped, organised more like proper armies, who know the jungle like the back of their hand. Please, before you assume these guerilla organisations are a bunch of retards, like everyone seems to do to every army the US have come up against, do some research.

Infantry combat is the main element of OFP....the majority like infantry combat....want evidence, look at the custom missions available for download, and the majority of them are infantry missions.....

I only hope BIS doesnt make one, because its what my mod are doing, not because its not a good idea......

Stop trying to twist quotes to suit yourself, and get your facts straight.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

Where are these guerillas?

South America? Ballocks.
They have almost no training and zero assets (support, artillery, etc etc.)

Infantry combat is a large part of OFP. The majority, however, like OFP the way it is, not completely changing the dynamic of the game and removing what are some of the greatest aspects of the game.... vehicles.

99% of the missions I've played and are popular on the servers I play on involve vehicles.... fighting with them or not.

Please, don't assume everyone else is stupid, and don't make up statistics.

Fighting 'terrorists' in the 'war on drugs' is not a fun scenario. Accept it.

Likewise, fighting as the forces of Giap vs the Americans in Vietnam wouldn't be that fun either, although they did win the war. Because although they acheived their objectives, they didn't do *that much* fighting- apart from the failed offensives- which also wouldn't be fun to play through as infantry because it was a massacre.

I say again: fighting against enemies who are (relative to the forces you play as) untrained, badly equipped, poorly led and whose tactics are: avoid fighting
OR
human wave attack.
is just not fun in a game. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Its too easy.

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]Fighting 'terrorists' in the 'war on drugs' is not a fun scenario. ***Accept it.

You may accept that. We will not coerce you into downloading our mod. However, I'm sure other people will be entertained by jungle combat.

Quote[/b] ]is just not fun in a game. ***It's like shooting fish in a barrel. ***Its too easy.

Ever play a mission in the Tonali jungles? Even ultra-low skill TRF forces can rip your squad of elites apart in seconds.

[Pathy]

Agree with M21man

And i dont make things up, you obviously didnt take my advise and get your facts straight. You are bluffing 100% of the way.

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Quote[/b] ]Today, the war is being waged on an unprecedented scale. Conflict is endemic in eight of Colombia´s 32 departments, affecting 20 percent of the total population and claiming over 40,000 lives since 1990. Nearly half of Colombia's land area (excluding major cities) is currently controlled by the FARC or ELN. Within this vast area, many pockets of territory are held by the paramilitaries, most of whom are affiliated with the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC).

These are not some minor groups. If you are in doubt, just ask some colombians or people who know the country well.

Poorly equipped?

Quote[/b] ]The FARC is considered to be financially self-sufficient, raking in a staggering $600,000 million a year from kidnap ransoms, extortion payments and "taxes" levied on local drug production and trafficking. The group has an estimated 15-20,000 seasoned fighters, and possesses some 30,000 automatic weapons along with a small air force of planes and helicopters.

Stop acting like US SF are invincible, and everyone else is crap. Its not true, and there are many real life examples to show it.

If you dont like the idea, dont download it, but dont go making up stuff and trying to discredit others ideas.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

Quote[/b] ]Fighting 'terrorists' in the 'war on drugs' is not a fun scenario. Accept it.

You may accept that. We will not coerce you into downloading our mod. However, I'm sure other people will be entertained by jungle combat.

I was not talking about your mod.

Quote[/b] ]

Ever play a mission in the Tonali jungles? Even ultra-low skill TRF forces can rip your squad of elites apart in seconds.

Not often, because I *hate* HD weapons.
But that situation might be to do with the unsuitability of the OFP1 engine to jungle warfare - it can make it look pretty good, but the AI has to 'cheat' to be effective in it - in other words, they can see through foliage (especially if another member of their squad can see you) and you can't really use the dense foliage for cover from sight, making it ... unrealistic. And not fun. In my opinion.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX]

Agree with M21man

And i dont make things up, you obviously didnt take my advise and get your facts straight. You are bluffing 100% of the way.

The following may help you in extracting your head from up your crack

http://www.lapress.org/Article.asp?l...1&artCode=2592

http://www.colombiaupdate.com/Member...20020216131039

http://www.sponsor.org/world_issues/.../colombia.html

Quote[/b] ]Today, the war is being waged on an unprecedented scale. Conflict is endemic in eight of Colombia´s 32 departments, affecting 20 percent of the total population and claiming over 40,000 lives since 1990. Nearly half of Colombia's land area (excluding major cities) is currently controlled by the FARC or ELN. Within this vast area, many pockets of territory are held by the paramilitaries, most of whom are affiliated with the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC).

These are not some minor groups. If you are in doubt, just ask some colombians or people who know the country well.

Poorly equipped?

Quote[/b] ]The FARC is considered to be financially self-sufficient, raking in a staggering $600,000 million a year from kidnap ransoms, extortion payments and "taxes" levied on local drug production and trafficking. The group has an estimated 15-20,000 seasoned fighters, and possesses some 30,000 automatic weapons along with a small air force of planes and helicopters.

Stop acting like US SF are invincible, and everyone else is crap. Its not true, and there are many real life examples to show it.

If you dont like the idea, dont download it, but dont go making up stuff and trying to discredit others ideas.

Don't change your story, and don't twiust what I said.

I was talking about fighting 'terrorists' as US special forces (because that's who we'd probably be playing as)

Playing as one of the drug factions or the columbian military vs the other one would be a LOT better than that, although the shitty equipment would still be a problem.

The Farc has shitty equipment. They are well armed for drugs manufacturers NOT well armed for an army.

If you think I think the US SF are invincible (or even good) then you are deeply mistaken. They do, however, uncontravertibly, have huge amounts of high tech, effective, extremely destructive kit. So much so that a game where you played as them vs a third world basically mercenary army would not be fun because it would be... too easy.

Playing as a 3rd world mercenary army vs another equivalently trained / resourced army would be better.
Playing as the US, or russians, or even British, french, german, whatver VS an equivalent or slightly better enemy would also be good.

That's why resistance and CWC was good- you had enough equipment to get the job done but it wasn't a case of 'oh noes we are in the shit send in a wing of B2 bombers to level the jungle!' or 'Hooray we have thermal goggles, satellite imagery and lots of fire support and they have a couple of AKs and a pickup.'

Once again - I'm not talking about your mod. I'm talking about OFP2, which is not as free to do cool stuff as a mod is. You don't have to worry about idiots in the high street stores not buying your mod because it doesn't appeal to them. OFP2 has to have some degree of mass market appeal, which means if the war on drugs is in it, you *will* be playing as the 'brave american soldiers who are wiping out this horrible disease' - note the quote marks - and it will not be fun.


Your mod is fine with me. I'm sure it will be great. Its just not suitable for a game in itself, not because its a bad idea but because people are stupid, ignorant sheep who will not buy something that goes against their perceptions - which is why there aren't any games centering on playing as a german infantryman in WWII.
Centering on - not featuring.

Once again - thats quite well armed for a drugs ring, but not at all well armed for anything thats fighting a high tech, well supplied enemy like the US.

[IceFire]

Hi tech isn't everything Baron.

Think about this, The US has incredibly hi tech and powerful satelites and drones that can see the licence plate on a car from outer space, but how did we catch Saddam? Not using any satellites.

But by laying in wait for tips and "sightings" to come in and slow methodical "stalking".

Technology only does so much. Even when you know how to use it. You need manpower to win a guerilla war.

[m21man]

Quote[/b] ]If you think I think the US SF are invincible (or even good) then you are deeply mistaken. They do, however, uncontravertibly, have huge amounts of high tech, effective, extremely destructive kit. So much so that a game where you played as them vs a third world basically mercenary army would not be fun because it would be... too easy.

It doesn't matter if a 7.62 round is fired by a cheap, crappy rifle or an ultra-sophisticated wonder gun, it'll still kill you. In close range combat, having a rifle with 20 fancy attachments won't save you from someone with extensive experience in the jungle and a lot of backup.

[Pathy]

Exactly HOW did i change my story? I simply provided evidence, and you did not.

I said:

Quote[/b] ]There are over 25000 guerillas, all well armed and equipped, organised more like proper armies, who know the jungle like the back of their hand. Please, before you assume these guerilla organisations are a bunch of retards, like everyone seems to do to every army the US have come up against, do some research

Now these guerillas are known as FARC and ELN.

You responded by saying

Quote[/b] ]Where are these guerillas?

South America? ***Ballocks.
They have almost no training and zero assets (support, artillery, etc etc.)

So i provide evidence to back this up

Quote[/b] ]The following may help you in extracting your head from up your crack

http://www.lapress.org/Article.asp?l...1&artCode=2592

http://www.colombiaupdate.com/Member...20020216131039

http://www.sponsor.org/world_issues/.../colombia.html

Quote[/b] ] ***
Today, the war is being waged on an unprecedented scale. Conflict is endemic in eight of Colombia´s 32 departments, affecting 20 percent of the total population and claiming over 40,000 lives since 1990. Nearly half of Colombia's land area (excluding major cities) is currently controlled by the FARC or ELN. Within this vast area, many pockets of territory are held by the paramilitaries, most of whom are affiliated with the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC). ***

These are not some minor groups. If you are in doubt, just ask some colombians or people who know the country well.

Poorly equipped?

Quote[/b] ] ***
The FARC is considered to be financially self-sufficient, raking in a staggering $600,000 million a year from kidnap ransoms, extortion payments and "taxes" levied on local drug production and trafficking. The group has an estimated 15-20,000 seasoned fighters, and possesses some 30,000 automatic weapons along with a small air force of planes and helicopters.

So where exactly in there did my story change?

Oh and $600,000 million is alot more than most "third world" countries fund thier armies with. Combine that with them NOT being third world, having an extensive knowledge of terrain that other countries would not, and you have a massacre waiting to happen....The VC defeated the US with bamboo sticks dipped in rat shit, despite all the technology of the US