Improved unit editor

[seedhe]

I see a potentially major problem with maximum flexiblity of appearance/loadouts. Dont get me wrong I like the idea, just playing a bit of devils advocate here.

There is a pretty steep learning curve in a multiplayer environment (especially in advanced mode) being able to identify the differences between east and west in the current version of the game. We all have the differences committed to memory by now but if you have a guy 50-100m away running towards your position with a uniform you havent seen before and carrying a weapon you cant identify at that distance, theres gonna be tears

[Mr. Snrub]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (seedhe @ 30 April 2003,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see a potentially major problem with maximum flexiblity of appearance/loadouts. Dont get me wrong I like the idea, just playing a bit of devils advocate here.

There is a pretty steep learning curve in a multiplayer environment (especially in advanced mode) being able to identify the differences between east and west in the current version of the game. We all have the differences committed to memory by now but if you have a guy 50-100m away running towards your position with a uniform you havent seen before and carrying a weapon you cant identify at that distance, theres gonna be tears [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
If you&#39;re playing the mission, you should really know what countries (and hence which uniforms) are going to be involved. It&#39;ll just take a bit of time to learn to distinguish between them, as it did before with the US/Russian uniforms.

I suppose if there&#39;s going to end up being 20+ different uniform choices, it&#39;d be a good idea to fiddle around in the editor and have a look at what a Swedish/Egyptian/Chilean soldier looks like and what weapons they use.

[Hellfish6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (seedhe @ 29 April 2003,21:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I see a potentially major problem with maximum flexiblity of appearance/loadouts. Dont get me wrong I like the idea, just playing a bit of devils advocate here.

There is a pretty steep learning curve in a multiplayer environment (especially in advanced mode) being able to identify the differences between east and west in the current version of the game. We all have the differences committed to memory by now but if you have a guy 50-100m away running towards your position with a uniform you havent seen before and carrying a weapon you cant identify at that distance, theres gonna be tears [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Same thing happens in real life.

But, assuming OFP handles MP addons the same way it does now, you&#39;ll probably have to have the addon installed on your system already if you&#39;re playing an MP game with it. I&#39;d assume that you&#39;d have looked at it.

[Hellfish6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkraver @ 29 April 2003,18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Equipment menu

I dont like the idea about only having premade load outs since you wont be able to make a load out with equipment/weapons from different addons makers on the same soldier. But you should still have the opportunity to choose one if you dont want to take the time to select all items.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Again, I really don&#39;t like the idea of a slot-based loadout. I think weight is the way to go. It shouldn&#39;t be too much of a burden on addon makers to include weight, either - just have a CPP value for the weight of an object in kilograms.

[FuseBox]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ 30 April 2003,07:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Again, I really don&#39;t like the idea of a slot-based loadout. I think weight is the way to go. It shouldn&#39;t be too much of a burden on addon makers to include weight, either - just have a CPP value for the weight of an object in kilograms.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
i like that idea but if it was slot based you could add the weight of the backpacks and ammo too (like the more ammo u have the slower u run ingame, the less ammo u have the faster u run)

[dkraver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ 30 April 2003,07:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dkraver @ 29 April 2003,18:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Equipment menu

I dont like the idea about only having premade load outs since you wont be able to make a load out with equipment/weapons from different addons makers on the same soldier. But you should still have the opportunity to choose one if you dont want to take the time to select all items.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Again, I really don&#39;t like the idea of a slot-based loadout. I think weight is the way to go. It shouldn&#39;t be too much of a burden on addon makers to include weight, either - just have a CPP value for the weight of an object in kilograms.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well the way i put it in that editor picture isnt really slot based. You would select the weapon in first box/slot, then push add button. Weapon and weight would then be added to the equipment list, which just show you what is selected.
At the same time as you select the weapon, the ammo field will change to the ammo types for that weapon alone and you can add the the amounts of mags you want with the add button. And again ammo and weights will be added to list. When weapon selection is at none ammo field will not show any ammo. Also reason i made the lines in the equipment field with:
Weapon + ammo (+ ammo + ammo + ammo)
Sec. weapon + ammo (+ ammo + ammo)
Side weapon + ammo (+ ammo + ammo)
Grenades + Smoke grenades + Flares
Equipment.
wasnt to show it like slots. But to show that like now you would only be able to select a main weapon, a support weapon, a side arm and then your grenades and equipment. List could/would then show them in lines after class for a better overview. The Ammo (+ ammo) was if a weapon would have more than one ammo type each ammo type would show insted of one ammo poll alone. I also kept it at those 5 lines becourse i dont think that you should be able to have more weapons selected so you wont have guys running arouns with a weapon poll of 5 assault rifles which i also wrote in the post. But while writing this i think that there should be added a extra line to ammo you wish to carry for other weapons than you have selected.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Under weapons selection you would only be able to choose one main weapon, one support weapon and one side arm so you wouldnt have a guy with 5 rifles.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Same selection for equipment field and the premade kits. Find which you want push add and it will be added to the equipment list.

In the backpack menu its same aswell. Only you cant add a weapon (at least i think you shouldnt be able to carry weapons in the backpack) but i put it there to easier find the ammo after the same system as above, where you select the weapon and then ammo will show in window below. Also you have backpack selection consisting of 4 types as i see it. 3 for normal ammo types with different weight abbility. Could be something like patrol, medium and big backpack. Last would only be for AT and you would only be able to choose between AT weapons/AT ammo in the fields below.

[DM]

I think Dkraver&#39;s editor system is perfect, as it allows for maximum flexibility of the unit and loadout without having to mess around with miles and miles of init code.

Loadout systems need to be weight based, and i&#39;m sure this could be simple to add, simply by adding the line

mass=xx;

in the cpp (and the neccisary game code)

OR by taking the objects defined mass in the p3d (in the geometry LOD)

[Hellfish6]

Thanks for the explanation, Dkraver. Makes sense to me now. Good ideas&#33;

I&#39;m a bit curious, though - what do you consider secondary weapons to be? Like how DFLW lets you carry an M-4A1 with a secondary MP5 and a pistol? Or are you thinking more like the secondary weapon will be an AT or AA weapon?

[dkraver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hellfish6 @ 30 April 2003,19:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thanks for the explanation, Dkraver. Makes sense to me now. Good ideas&#33;

I&#39;m a bit curious, though - what do you consider secondary weapons to be? Like how DFLW lets you carry an M-4A1 with a secondary MP5 and a pistol? Or are you thinking more like the secondary weapon will be an AT or AA weapon?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hmm first i thought of it only as a place for support weapons like the secondary field is now. But now you say it could see the gain for a sniper to have a secondary weapon like a Mp5 or maybe someone in a group to have a shotgun to open doors (if its a thing that can be done in OFP 2) or not having the m79 as a main weapon (thinking vietnam). So i could see one having a weapon for a secondary weapon. It would depend on weight system having a limit where there would considerable loss of weight left for ammo for having two weapon instead of one. So people would have to decide between as a example having a sniper rifle with 10 mags and a berreta with 5 mags or having sniper rifle with 2 mags and a mp5 with 3 mags in their main equipment.
BTW this is just a imaginary example i dont know what the weight diffence would be in real life also what it would be to carry or that it should be the max limit. But should show the consideration to be taken before choosing two weapons instead of one.

[Hellfish6]

I like the idea of having backup weapons. Like your sniper example. Or having an AT weapon.

The hard part is, how do you determine what a secondary weapon is? I mean, what&#39;s the difference in having an MP5 as a main weapon as opposed to a secondary weapon? Dkraver mentioned weight, but would that be accurate enough?

I mean, it&#39;s possible that an MP5K would qualify as a secondary weapon, as would a LAW or AT-4 or Javelin, but would an MP5SD6? What about an M-4A1?

It&#39;s a tough call...