New update, new disaster!

With every new update there is a drastic decrease in my enjoyment of Arma 3. I was just now getting my game back to where I wanted it after the "Bootcamp" debacle which ruined the game for a while. I had finally gotten all mods working again except for 5 or so which, it seems, will probably never be fixed. I also installed mods to fix the absurd sway and fatigue which were incredibly annoying and so unrealistic and frustrating it destroyed my immersion. So, I accepted the fact that 1.24 caused parts of the game I enjoyed to be unplayable and for the most part only added things which were either pointless for me or severely limiting, irritating and simply made Arma less enjoyable. Finally the game was back to being......fun.

After that disaster I made it a point to never let steam connect to the internet so as to not let another update ruin the game. A few days ago I made the mistake of launching the game while the internet was connected. Even though I cancelled the download a few seconds after it began it was too late. I couldn't connect to steam again even in offline mode until I finished the update. I told myself that "maybe it was just adding the optional flight mechanics from TOH." The keyword there is OPTIONAL which the sway/fatigue should have been. Adding (forcing) drastic changes to basic gameplay this late should at least be flexible for offline play. Add another bar in the settings right below the the "ai skill" for sway, recoil and fatigue if you are intent on forcing it into the game now. At least the many players who hate it can configure it to their liking somewhat.

When finally getting to play the game I immediately noticed differences. When placing units with Zues they no longer said "waiting for orders", "standing by", ect. Now they were silent. Also, a lot of my favorite sounds from JSRS were changed back to the bland originals. Hand grenades, Artillery, LAV's, static weapons, missiles, ect..But the absolute worst was the recoil, sway, and fatigue were now all back to the dreadful "bootcamp" version. After playing so long with the great weapon sway and recoil from AGM which was near perfect for me, I now have to revert back to the unbelievably bad vanilla version. I was so comfortable with the AGM sway/recoil at this point that its infuriating to have to suffer through the insane "drunken sailor caught in a hurricane at sea" shooting all because of an update I DIDNT EVEN WANT.

Anyone else having issues with the latest update? The last two mostly added things that either should have been in the game at release (door sounds, bootcamp) or that significantly decreased my enjoyment of the game. If BI is trying to make the game unplayable for me they are doing a fine job.

The game keeps getting better and better as time goes on. The new inertia system is great, the RotorLib FM is going to be amazing, the new sound system is a massive improvement from the last one (speed of sound simulation, improved samples), they fixed breath holding so it is as easy to shoot long range as it's always been before the Fatigue update, weapon damage seems to have improved and become more consistent, they toned down the fatigue and weapon sway a little to make it more manageable (it was already fine in the beginning but they were swayed by the large amounts of people complaining about it); as a result of the sway, fatigue and inertia system, the gun handling is beginning to feel really fluid and comfortable. The door sounds are also a nice touch.

If you really don't like the game that much, stop playing it. It's that simple. Spare us your complaining. If you like the game, good, play it. If you hate the game, fine, don't play it. But we all love arma so don't expect to complain about the game to a forum of Arma lovers and expect to get a positive response.

Cheers

There's a "Legacy" branch now that forces v1.24 if you so wish, one of the SITREPS or SPOTREPs I believe mentions the access code required.

@ the_Demongod: Not sure if you're referring to weapon damage to players or AI, but I distinctly recall that RiE (creative director) mentioned that some of what people thought were 'AI soaking damage' was actually hit detection problems.

There's a "Legacy" branch now that forces v1.24 if you so wish, one of the SITREPS or SPOTREPs I believe mentions the access code required.

Yeah, the code for the 1.24 version is Arma3Legacy124

Why should the fatigue system be optional... Finally they do something about the rambo gameplay and it's wrong again. There is a reason why everybody nowadays rides around in helicopters and trucks. Manage your stamina, learn to shoot with the new system. It's not hard.

Soon we will be getting shooting from vehicles. But I bet somebody will find something wrong with that too.

Sheesh.

Why should the fatigue system be optional... Finally they do something about the rambo gameplay and it's wrong again. There is a reason why everybody nowadays rides around in helicopters and trucks. Manage your stamina, learn to shoot with the new system. It's not hard.

I also distinctly remember -Coulum- mentioning that it's actually not too hard to manage the stamina just by once-in-a-while switching to walk, albeit for a few seconds. Of course, don't sprint if you don't have to (i.e. get to cover or to a vehicle get-in position), but there's also more esoteric tips like learning the Fatigue gain/recovery rates... though in fairness, tutorials and early official campaign missions should be more blatant about hinting at these (specifically, what behaviors best mitigate Fatigue).

Soon we will be getting shooting from vehicles. But I bet somebody will find something wrong with that too.

For starters, there would be the likelihood that drivers won't be able to do so, though even IRL it's almost certainly/always a case of "they can drive OR shoot", although in-game it could be that the driver only gets pedal control (no steering) when aiming (and being limited to certain primaries at that), or only being allowed to use a sidearm while retaining steering control...

Why should the fatigue system be optional... Finally they do something about the rambo gameplay and it's wrong again. There is a reason why everybody nowadays rides around in helicopters and trucks. Manage your stamina, learn to shoot with the new system. It's not hard.

Soon we will be getting shooting from vehicles. But I bet somebody will find something wrong with that too.

Sheesh.

In real life you can always rest your weapon on different objects, the enemy side doesn't spot you as easy as the AI does or shot as good, the enemy also is affected by fatigue, aim sway, suppression fire, injuries and so on, stuff for which the AI has nothing to share. Also when someone is shooting near you, the weapon doesn't tremble or any other BS Bohemia, Dice and others do to "simulate" (lol) suppression. Suppression is simulated itself enough by the fear of getting shot.

Also is nice to play with these new features in a campaign that wasn't designed for them. :j:

You do know Steam allows you to choose not to update a game? It's simply a matter of just clicking the button.

Mods aren't and shouldn't be supported by BIS. If any of them don't work appropriately with the current version, wait for the mod creator to update it.

You do know Steam allows you to choose not to update a game? It's simply a matter of just clicking the button.

That is not true, or at least not anymore. Something has changed. The only way to avoid updates is to switch into offline mode.

...

AGM disabled their fatique and stamina because they like the new BIS (s)way.

https://github.com/KoffeinFlummi/AGM/issues/686

Why should the fatigue system be optional... Finally they do something about the rambo gameplay and it's wrong again. There is a reason why everybody nowadays rides around in helicopters and trucks. Manage your stamina, learn to shoot with the new system. It's not hard.

Soon we will be getting shooting from vehicles. But I bet somebody will find something wrong with that too.

Sheesh.

It is optional, in the sense you can dissable those mission side.

The new sway isn't bad at all. I can accurately engage targets at medium-long ranges after running 1 kilometer with ease. The trick is managing the amount of weight you carry, lowering your weapon unless you are shooting, and take short breaks every once in a while. You can't just run everywhere holding your weapon up or carrying 75 pounds. It makes you think, plan things out, and be smart which I quite like.

Yeah, the only downside is that you have more headbobbing with a lowered weapon - wich makes it less comfortable to play...

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

In real life you can always rest your weapon on different objects, the enemy side doesn't spot you as easy as the AI does or shot as good, the enemy also is affected by fatigue, aim sway, suppression fire, injuries and so on, stuff for which the AI has nothing to share. Also when someone is shooting near you, the weapon doesn't tremble or any other BS Bohemia, Dice and others do to "simulate" (lol) suppression. Suppression is simulated itself enough by the fear of getting shot.

Also is nice to play with these new features in a campaign that wasn't designed for them. :j:

The campaign doesn't differ for the player, you just need to manage your loadout better. In the mission where you attack the outpost, I ditched my pack and most of my ammo to get at the mortar. One box of ammo for the LMG, two pistol mags and two handgrenades: no problem. The AI's spotting ability is alright, and you can always dial them down if they're not to your taste. On my side, they are not overly deadly, and not a non-threat. If you don't want to get shot, get into cover. At larger distances, the AI is also woefully inaccurate now: they -are- affected by the new stamina system.

Additionally, the game does not simulate suppression effects right now, and if it does, I do not notice them at all.

Learn to manage your stamina. Soldiers do not run everywhere in real life, they walk, or at best jog. And if you watch combat footage, everybody is wheezing all the time once the moving and shooting starts. There is footage from Crimea of Fighters ditching their Vests and Packs altogether to evacuate wounded, to be able to move unimpeded, quicker and for larger distances. The US Army went from the IOTV full plated vest with four plates and soft armor (front and sides, plus groin and neck protectors, as well shoulder protectors in some cases) to a two plate light plate carrier so soldiers could actually move around.

Stamina is far less punishing in this game than it is in real life. Just sit for a moment and get your breath back. And if you're not getting it back, you're overloaded.

Do you really want to play arma 3 with TOTALLY realistic walking speed/stamina, without any new features besides those changes.

It would quickly become very, very boring, especially since you cant like look around and look and every little flower on the ground etc like you do in real life while walking around (It would have to be super high detail to make it interesting enough).

The point being, we dont need it THAT realistic as your giving the real life examples, the stamina is mostly fine as it is right now, if its changed, there will be another flurry of complaints.

Do you really want to play arma 3 with TOTALLY realistic walking speed/stamina

Yes I want to play arma with realistic speed/stanima as close as it gets to reality with gameplay considerations.

Taking consideration of what you take as it effects your movement is healthy for gameplay and not boring at all.

Complaints are always present when such big audience is playing game, and in my opinion is important to separate

mass disagreement apart (often vocal) minority of I want "game tailored for my taste" type of guy.

Complaints are always present when such big audience is playing game, and in my opinion is important to separate

mass disagreement apart (often vocal) minority of I want "game tailored for my taste" type of guy.

Goes both ways, I treat realism advocates as the latter. ;) Not least because (as many others have pointed out) the existing walking speeds/stamina already achieve "Taking consideration of what you take as it effects your movement".

@ InstaGoat: I did notice re: calin_banc's complaint the earlier complaint that the allied AI doesn't account for stamina the way that a player can, hence stuff like your AI possibly getting themselves killed more than before?

The campaign doesn't differ for the player, you just need to manage your loadout better. In the mission where you attack the outpost, I ditched my pack and most of my ammo to get at the mortar. One box of ammo for the LMG, two pistol mags and two handgrenades: no problem. The AI's spotting ability is alright, and you can always dial them down if they're not to your taste. On my side, they are not overly deadly, and not a non-threat. If you don't want to get shot, get into cover. At larger distances, the AI is also woefully inaccurate now: they -are- affected by the new stamina system.

Additionally, the game does not simulate suppression effects right now, and if it does, I do not notice them at all.

Learn to manage your stamina. Soldiers do not run everywhere in real life, they walk, or at best jog. And if you watch combat footage, everybody is wheezing all the time once the moving and shooting starts. There is footage from Crimea of Fighters ditching their Vests and Packs altogether to evacuate wounded, to be able to move unimpeded, quicker and for larger distances. The US Army went from the IOTV full plated vest with four plates and soft armor (front and sides, plus groin and neck protectors, as well shoulder protectors in some cases) to a two plate light plate carrier so soldiers could actually move around.

Stamina is far less punishing in this game than it is in real life. Just sit for a moment and get your breath back. And if you're not getting it back, you're overloaded.

The best example would be at the end of 1st episode, when you run under mortar fire with paratroopers being inserted via helicopters. Yes, getting rid of your stuff becomes a priority and that's why the UI requires changes and also a "drop" button to be added directly to keyboard (plus further animations and gameplay mechanics, etc.).

Indeed, it seems that now the AI doesn't kill you as fast as before and are more human like (with the usual one hit now and then plus superman observation capabilities). Don't know if their accuracy goes down if injured or fire upon though or it's just due to fatigue. An extra bonus, AIs are refusing to act upon my commands at times, however this is old and it makes me rather smile. :) Suppression is still there, but less present, probably because the enemy doesn't aim as well as before.

Using vehicles and all the above is great, but we need weapons resting and shooting from vehicles, including the driver. I'm curious how this will be done since there are tons of clipping issues at the moment. :D

Edited September 1, 2014 by calin_banc

Well, I warned him :)

There's a "Legacy" branch now that forces v1.24 if you so wish, one of the SITREPS or SPOTREPs I believe mentions the access code required.

@ the_Demongod: Not sure if you're referring to weapon damage to players or AI, but I distinctly recall that RiE (creative director) mentioned that some of what people thought were 'AI soaking damage' was actually hit detection problems.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. The damage seems to be much more consistent, there don't seem to be shots getting "lost" upon impact.

With every new update there is a drastic decrease in my enjoyment of Arma 3. I was just now getting my game back to where I wanted it after the "Bootcamp" debacle which ruined the game for a while. I had finally gotten all mods working again except for 5 or so which, it seems, will probably never be fixed. I also installed mods to fix the absurd sway and fatigue which were incredibly annoying and so unrealistic and frustrating it destroyed my immersion. So, I accepted the fact that 1.24 caused parts of the game I enjoyed to be unplayable and for the most part only added things which were either pointless for me or severely limiting, irritating and simply made Arma less enjoyable. Finally the game was back to being......fun.

After that disaster I made it a point to never let steam connect to the internet so as to not let another update ruin the game. A few days ago I made the mistake of launching the game while the internet was connected. Even though I cancelled the download a few seconds after it began it was too late. I couldn't connect to steam again even in offline mode until I finished the update. I told myself that "maybe it was just adding the optional flight mechanics from TOH." The keyword there is OPTIONAL which the sway/fatigue should have been. Adding (forcing) drastic changes to basic gameplay this late should at least be flexible for offline play. Add another bar in the settings right below the the "ai skill" for sway, recoil and fatigue if you are intent on forcing it into the game now. At least the many players who hate it can configure it to their liking somewhat.

When finally getting to play the game I immediately noticed differences. When placing units with Zues they no longer said "waiting for orders", "standing by", ect. Now they were silent. Also, a lot of my favorite sounds from JSRS were changed back to the bland originals. Hand grenades, Artillery, LAV's, static weapons, missiles, ect..But the absolute worst was the recoil, sway, and fatigue were now all back to the dreadful "bootcamp" version. After playing so long with the great weapon sway and recoil from AGM which was near perfect for me, I now have to revert back to the unbelievably bad vanilla version. I was so comfortable with the AGM sway/recoil at this point that its infuriating to have to suffer through the insane "drunken sailor caught in a hurricane at sea" shooting all because of an update I DIDNT EVEN WANT.

Anyone else having issues with the latest update? The last two mostly added things that either should have been in the game at release (door sounds, bootcamp) or that significantly decreased my enjoyment of the game. If BI is trying to make the game unplayable for me they are doing a fine job.

+1 to all - I also do not understand why fatigue and weapon sway are not an OPTION for the customer (SP) to turn on and off (or tweak down). I play A3 a tremendous amount less than I did A2.

Why aren't they an option? because they do nothing but improve the game and it would be silly to put all of Bohemia Interactive's work to waste by disabling it. It makes the infantry combat feel much more real and interesting, and it forces players to manage their load carefully, as well as keeping tabs on their speed/distance of movement. It is a great enhancement to the game. It just takes learning. All it does is make it so that those who have practiced or have more skill will have an edge over those who have not.

Why aren't they an option? because they do nothing but improve the game and it would be silly to put all of Bohemia Interactive's work to waste by disabling it. It makes the infantry combat feel much more real and interesting, and it forces players to manage their load carefully, as well as keeping tabs on their speed/distance of movement. It is a great enhancement to the game. It just takes learning. All it does is make it so that those who have practiced or have more skill will have an edge over those who have not.

Your AI suck at it though? Keeping up with managing themselves (hell, with how AI is now your BluFor AI, they can barely survive any firefight without constant micro mgmt.).and if you are playing SP (and are an adult who works 50+ hours a week) A3 is continuing (without allow options to disable or to tweak these varying AI attributes) to make it less enjoyable to play. At end of the day that is the purpose for those that buy it.

What has working hours got to do with this?

Oh yeah, for the nth time, you can disable fatigue if you please to do so.

Each update makes the game better.

All of the good updates thus far are the ones that make the game deeper and more complex.

Sway, Stamina, Weight system, realistic flight model, upcoming shooting out of vehicles.

all of those are realism updates I am excited to see how the Marksman DLC improves the shooting fingers crossed that it adds wind and other factors so long range shots are nowhere near as easy mode like they are now.

You have to break a few eggs to make an Omelet...