Can normal humans create mods?

Hello,

I know this is going to sound extremely vague, but I've got to ask it - how hard is it to create a new model from the ground up for OFP with no prior computer modeling experience? I have a list of things that I *must* have for OFP but don't want to beg others to make them, but I also don't want to start work, invest time, only to find out that it would take an unskilled person 2 years to create a vehicle or helicopter.

So, people that have experience, should I even make the attempt?

Thanks, and hopefully I don't look to ignorant for having asked this

Mike

As you might've already found out modeling for OFP will be extremely dificult and will require some time.

I would advise: get 3D Studio MAX 3,4 or whatever make the model there and then import it in o2. Then make alll the lods and perfect it , then texture.

About the two years......wait and see

If he should get 3D Studio MAX it might very well take 2 years before he can even start using it. That baby costs a bundle.

But, like I've explained to many people over IRC and MSN, do not start your modeling career in O2.

If you have no clue whatsoever about 3D Modeling you shouldn't think about modeling in O2.

So, I suggest d/ling a free modeling tool, check out some tutorials for that and get a good feel for how 3D Modeling works before even trying to model in O2.

Then again, if that free tool can export to .3DS you might not need to model in O2.

Here's three, free, modeling applications:

Anim8or

Open FX

Wings 3D

Cheers, KTottE

Rotor, don't listen to these two bozos

Of course you can learn to use o2. You should however not do the actual modelling in it since that is not what the program is for. The modlling functions are there so that you can make minor corrections to your model.

First, you have to learn the basics of modelling. I suggest you download a free program and find a modelling tutorial.  Learn about models and textures.

Modelling is not at all hard per se. You can learn the basics pretty fast. The problem with 3d modelling is not using the tools, but investing the time and patience it takes to make a good model.

If you are willing to invest some time in the learning process, you will be able to make models for OFP, no doubt about it.

O2 is light a bit different program, so it takes you an half-hour or so to figure out how it works. After that it is no problem to get your work into OFP.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 13 2002,11:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course you can learn to use o2. You should however not do the actual modelling in it since that is not what the program is for.<span id='postcolor'>

O2 is made for modeling, and thats what all BIS models are done with... Its actually a very good low polygon modeler, with some of useful features that at least 3dsmax lacks. It doesnt have all the great features of 3D studio max and other "big" modelers, but it has all thats required for low polygon modeling. The UI might need some time to get used to with lots of key combinations etc. but after you got the hang of it its pretty simple.

I would recommend to get some knowledge on how polygon based 3d engines/modelers, 3d cards, etc. generally work. Important information when doing models for games.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 13 2002,10:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rotor, don't listen to these two bozos

Of course you can learn to use o2. You should however not do the actual modelling in it since that is not what the program is for. The modlling functions are there so that you can make minor corrections to your model.

First, you have to learn the basics of modelling. I suggest you download a free program and find a modelling tutorial.  Learn about models and textures.<span id='postcolor'>

Just a question mate, how is this ^ any different from what I said?

"Don't model in O2"

"Model in some other software"

"Learn basic 3D first"

You really need to read the posts before replying

Anways, Kegetys, are you sure all BIS models are made in O2?

I mean, they do have the .3DS import function.

And as the tool was not intended for release, that function has not been implemented just for our sake.

I really have no clue about this, but it does seem odd that they would have a .3DS import function without using it

And yes, what you said, people should have a basic understanding of 3D, and how it is applied in games before making any serious attempts at making models for OFP.

Cheers, KTottE

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Sep. 13 2002,11:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 13 2002,11:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Of course you can learn to use o2. You should however not do the actual modelling in it since that is not what the program is for.<span id='postcolor'>

O2 is made for modeling, and thats what all BIS models are done with...<span id='postcolor'>

As I see it to tell somebody that has a real modelling package to use o2 instead is misleading them. I mean, you use 3d studio yourself for your models, right?

The undisputable champion of polygon modelling is Maya 4. If you have it, use that. If not, use 3d studio max. If you don't have that use Milkshape or in the worst case some freeware modelling program.

The problem with most modelling packages is that they are bloody expensive, so if you can't access them through work or school, you can probably forget about them.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KTottE @ Sep. 13 2002,12:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You really need to read the posts before replying

Anways, Kegetys, are you sure all BIS models are made in O2?

I mean, they do have the .3DS import function.

And as the tool was not intended for release, that function has not been implemented just for our sake.

I really have no clue about this, but it does seem odd that they would have a .3DS import function without using it <span id='postcolor'>

Its my opinion and my thoughts about the subject, sometimes people have different opinions and views about things but sometimes they have the same opinions

And yes, all BIS models are done with O2 as far as I know. The 3DS import functions is there because Obejtiv was originally made by a single person (cant remember who it was, someone who works in BIS now and he had Objektiv stuff in his personal homepage) and I guess he/she made it for just a generic modeler from which it has been adopted by BIS.

O2 is free, and yet very powerful modeling tool. I do "main" modeling with 3d studio max, with some parts done with O2 where O2 is better... But 3dsmax is veery expensive so I cant really recommend it for a beginners (Well, im still a beginner but anyway), O2 is a good tool to start modeling if you know something about modeling/3d engines in general.

@Kegetys: Ok.

I'm just checking

@Denoir:

Not to piss anyone off or anything, but 3D Studio is better as a polygon-modeler than Maya =)

I would know since I've tried using both for my polygon-modeling.

Then, the tools aren't really that much different. It all comes down to personal preference really.

Hey Rotor

All of what these guys have said about modelling is correct.

I begun modelling in truespace then in 3d Studio Max. Now I model for OFP in Oxygen. I find it a very good for modelling, and while there is a learning curve, I'm sure if you persist at it you will get the hang of it..

Two years? I doubt it. But exactly how long it will take is entirely up to you. Shortly i will be posting a tutorial on how to build an aircraft in oxygen. The model is made entirely in Oxygen and it took about two hours from scratch to flying in OFP (without textures).

In the meantime try the tutorials on the Breathe page, they helped me as I am sure they helped just about all the other 'oldtimers' who were in much the same situation as yourself when Oxygen was first released.

Don't hesitate to ask.. it may take a while before someone replies, and if they don't just IM me or send an email..

Welcome to the fold:)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KTottE @ Sep. 13 2002,12:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Not to piss anyone off or anything, but 3D Studio is better as a polygon-modeler than Maya =)

I would know since I've tried using both for my polygon-modeling.<span id='postcolor'>

I disagree

What I lack in 3d studio is proper nurbs to poly conversions and good polygon reduction tools.

Not to say that 3ds is lacking all forms of programmable parametric splines.

It is though very much about your own preference, just as you said. I started many years ago with 3d studio 4 (note: this is not 3d studio max, I am talking about, but the original dos version! ). Later I moved on to Softimage and the transition was murder. After a while I got used to it and would never have gone back to 3ds.

Softimage is good for IK and animations in general but Maya is better for modelling, so I switched to that after a while. The transition there was murderous too. I love it now however. I did some modelling now for OFP in 3dmax 5 and I missed a lot of functions that you have in Maya.

Now, I am not at all some expert at modelling - I'm just a happy amateur as most of us It is just that I have had access to this software from my university the last six years so I have played around with it a bit.

Maya & Softimage are professinal production tools - they are used in more or less all movies - all from Jurrasic Park to the new Starwars movies. 3d studio max is the budget choice. There is a considerable difference in the price tag

When I first got O2, the question was "how to best make a model that will work in OFP"...The choice I had was to either learn 2 different 3D modelling programs (having never made a 3d model in my life) or just learn one.

I chose to just learn one program, O2, basically because I would have to learn how to use it anyway to get the model to work in OFP. The learning curve is steep but not too difficult.

So my advice is, if you know how to model using a different program, then use that program, if you have no experience with modelling then learn how to model in O2.

PS. Don't start off with a helicopter like I did, with so much interior and exterior surfaces, it can be a real pain!

SelectThis

WOOOOw..

You never modeled before that heli selectThis??

Cool..

Anyway.. I'm just going to try, for I accidently became 3d modeler in a mod team I joined when I started playing around with milkshape.. Only before I got any real 3d editing experience I messed up my pc, lost my keycodes etc. (and all of my ofp-maps )

So now I'm just trying again.. But then with o2.

Weeell, why would you want nurbs to polygon tools anyway?

That will make for some insane poly-counts.

If you model with polygons from the get go, you won't need poly-reduction or nurbs to polygons.

But, it is like we all say, a matter of personal preference.

At the end of the day though, Maya is better for stuff like Jurassic Park. There's no denying that.

But right now, Maya is cheaper than 3D Studio MAX. Atleast if you're buying Maya Complete. Which contains everything except the fancy things like Fur and so on.

Maya Complete goes for 20,000 SEK (~$2000) and 3D Studio MAX 5 goes for about 40,000 SEK (~$4000)

And STT is right.

First you should do simple stuff like weapons, and very square vehicles.

I already knew how to model in 3D Studio MAX, so I use that.

Not only because it has support for some sweet plugins =)

but because it takes me about 1/4 of the time to make a model in that as it does in O2.

Now, I don't know if STT is a fast learner, but if you are just getting in to 3D, O2 would not be my choice of software.

With the lack of documentation, and certain important features (O2 Light does not have an extrude function, for one) it can be very difficult to make models with it if you know nothing of how 3D works.

I recommend checking out articles and tutorials at other general 3D related sites to get a hang of how it works, then start modeling for real in O2.

http://www.3dlinks.com

that site has a lot of that stuff, and a lot of links to other 3D sites. There you can also check on some of the differences between Maya, 3D Studio MAX, Truespace and other commercial modeling packages.

Cheers, KTottE

So that's why i couldn find extrude.. lol.. It isn't there at all..

Alas.. I havent got the funding to get 3d Studio Max.. And also not for Maya or whatever..

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KTottE @ Sep. 13 2002,07:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If he should get 3D Studio MAX it might very well take 2 years before he can even start using it. That baby costs a bundle.

But, like I've explained to many people over IRC and MSN, do not start your modeling career in O2.

If you have no clue whatsoever about 3D Modeling you shouldn't think about modeling in O2.

So, I suggest d/ling a free modeling tool, check out some tutorials for that and get a good feel for how 3D Modeling works before even trying to model in O2.

Then again, if that free tool can export to .3DS you might not need to model in O2.

Here's three, free, modeling applications:

Anim8or

Open FX

Wings 3D

Cheers, KTottE<span id='postcolor'>

Thanks for the links mate, I downloaded the Wings 3D program, and it has the ability to export as .3ds and .obj, has anyone used this program to create models to import into OFP before?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KTottE @ Sep. 13 2002,15:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Weeell, why would you want nurbs to polygon tools anyway?

That will make for some insane poly-counts.

If you model with polygons from the get go, you won't need poly-reduction or nurbs to polygons.<span id='postcolor'>

Because the only real modelling is nurbs modelling With the great poly reduction and optimization tools, it is no problem.

The polygon optimization functions in Max are a disaster. Instead of producing something at least a bit symmetrical it creates a web-like structure of the polygons. The Multi Res modifier is even worse

In Maya you have your nice nurbs model that is easy to work with. When you want it polygonized you just define a couple of LOD levels (you can even specify polycount) and it generates them with very good results.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But right now, Maya is cheaper than 3D Studio MAX. Atleast if you're buying Maya Complete. Which contains everything except the fancy things like Fur and so on.

Maya Complete goes for 20,000 SEK (~$2000) and 3D Studio MAX 5 goes for about 40,000 SEK (~$4000)

<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, the prices have dropped very much. Maya Unlimited 4.0, that I am using, goes for about 7,000 €/$. The first Maya that I used (1.0) had a price tag of about 100,000 € (the same for Softimage|3D) - then my university had three or four licenses, so you had to wait in line to borrow the package for a week. Now it is part of a site license: i.e unlimited number of licenses for students. So there has been quite a change

Wow guys, thanks for all the info. I never expected to have so many people helping me. OFP is truly a great community!

I'm beating myself in the head for not learning Maya when I had a chance - the computer lab at my old High School had 3 dozen computers all with Maya on it, and a teacher that knew quite a bit about the program (even though he was a total ass). While my friends were making people and bouncing balls, I was surfing the web... sheesh, hindsight is 20/20!

Anyways, it seems that the best route I'm seeing here is to try and enter myself into modeling using basic learning tools with better-supported freeware beginner programs, then transitioning into Oxygen. I'd rather not pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a program if I don't have to, and I doubt I will model for anything other than OFP. I guess I need another hobby, so I might as well give it a go.

Its looking pretty daunting already... not only do I have to make the model, but then I've got to apply the flight stuff to it, and the instruments on the panel, and the actions, and the seats, and where the troops sit... sheesh!!! I've got quite a bit to learn!

Any other advice appreciated

Mike

Just about Maya. You can download a free version of Maya Personal Learning Edition

Im pretty new too, i've had some experience playing around with milkshape but i like O2 better for modelling.  I know a few things about O2 now and i've modelled a gun and im trying to get it in the game...

heh, when i first got my computer it had 3d studio max installed on it! I thought it was just a dvd player lol so i deleted it... oh man i probably wasted like Å1000.

Coming from an engineering background (work), I actually model in Mechanical Desktop 6 (Autodesk) - which is slightly different in that it is a "solid" parametric modeling program. Once happy, I import to 3DS Max 5, and then finally import into O2.

If you want to produce real "nuts and bolt" models based on parts and assemblies, I think it's prolly the best way. But then again, it's what I've used for more than five years.

Prospero

Autodesktop.. hmmm

we've got something called Prodesktop at my school, sounds a lot like what you use. i think its easier to use programs like O2 tho, much easier for me...

I've been blessed with having the possibility to use MAX 5 by my school and it has my vote even though the price as mentioned earlier is sky high. (around 5000 euros here in Finland,you can get a nice car with that kind of money) Max 5 boasts many features that most users propably never use, mainly complex animation features.

But if going for reasonable price and great possibilities one should try Rhinoceros NURBS modelling software. Rather easy to learn great results. More 3dCAD than MAX so exact modelling is possible.

Check out

Rhino3d

Don't mean to crack open a gone by discussion I appear to have missed.But there is lots of useful information here.

I am begineer modeler and now I'm lost about nurbs and such?

I havent heard any OFP specific reference and alot of what mentioned isn't needed , right?

I've gandered at some of the free modeling programs,but I only want to make and import models for OFP so I just have been trying to learn O2lt.

I was wondering how long it took SelectThis to learn O2? He said he only has used mainly O2.

One thing I do notice is that O2 has detailed message forums and real time expert help on OFP specific modeling.

You guys amaze me when you say you made something in a few hours.

Some of the messages in this topic should be included in a newbie faq