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Thread: AI Discussion (dev branch)

  1. #1141
    Quote Originally Posted by fabrizio_T View Post
    Sadly.

    One thing that bogs me (since i masochistically still play as a AI group leader) is that whenever i command my whole group to move to some spot, while in combat mode, they do move there in perfect formation (wedge) ignoring cover and as walking as slow as possible (not to break that beautiful formation). They skip bounding overwatch alltogether, or at least they fully prioritize hard formation.
    Obviously this kind of behaviour is useless.
    Try the same with enemys around
    Teach the AI how to drive. Give us supression effects for AI. Make AI ragdoll if they get hit. Give us proper animations for throwing Frags. Give us a proper wounding system. Fix the armored vests so that they don´t protect the whole torso. Give us inertia influenced movement depending on the Weapon you have. Make every weapon have a collision model so that players prefer to clean houses with their pistol instead of their heavy MG. Introduce auto lowering of the weapon if it collides with the wall. www.Brigade2010.de

  2. #1142
    Staff Sergeant
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    AI accuracy has been higher lately, again, I guess, some time ago they had difficulties to hit when the enemy was far. I'm not sure. Maybe.

    At 400 meters a rifleman may not see you or try to shoot you back, unless you dance around a while.
    But when they do detect you, it's too often one shot, one hit. That shot may not usually kill you and you have time to try to shoot back .. unless there are more than one lucky-guess-sharpshooter AI.

    At 300 meters you can quite easily hit/kill an enemy if he is standing up and not moving. It's a lot more difficult to hit when he is prone facing you and shooting back.

    Still ...for AI, it seems like the opposite. I dare to say you live longer if you are standing, instead of laying low.

    I did test (at airstrip), 2 AI riflemen 300 meters away, facing you.
    They notice you immediately and start shooting.

    If you stand still, average life expectancy was 15-30 seconds. Results varied a lot, from 10 seconds to 4 minutes 20 seconds

    If you went prone right away, you died in 5-10 seconds. Every time.


    With one AI, the results were more even, but still you had better chances standing still. Well, atleast when prone, you are able to try to shoot and kill the minimal target ..and pray for the lucky shot. Which won't happen, because before you can "zoom" and have a good aim, you are dead.

  3. #1143
    What are the default values for the precision parameters?

  4. #1144
    Quote Originally Posted by Smurf View Post
    What are the default values for the precision parameters?
    Depends on your difficulty settings

  5.   Click here to go to the next Developer post in this thread.   #1145
    BI Developer
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    Author of the Thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzur33 View Post
    AI accuracy has been higher lately, again, I guess, some time ago they had difficulties to hit when the enemy was far. I'm not sure. Maybe.

    At 400 meters a rifleman may not see you or try to shoot you back, unless you dance around a while.
    But when they do detect you, it's too often one shot, one hit. That shot may not usually kill you and you have time to try to shoot back .. unless there are more than one lucky-guess-sharpshooter AI.

    At 300 meters you can quite easily hit/kill an enemy if he is standing up and not moving. It's a lot more difficult to hit when he is prone facing you and shooting back.

    Still ...for AI, it seems like the opposite. I dare to say you live longer if you are standing, instead of laying low.

    I did test (at airstrip), 2 AI riflemen 300 meters away, facing you.
    They notice you immediately and start shooting.

    If you stand still, average life expectancy was 15-30 seconds. Results varied a lot, from 10 seconds to 4 minutes 20 seconds

    If you went prone right away, you died in 5-10 seconds. Every time.


    With one AI, the results were more even, but still you had better chances standing still. Well, atleast when prone, you are able to try to shoot and kill the minimal target ..and pray for the lucky shot. Which won't happen, because before you can "zoom" and have a good aim, you are dead.
    Interesting. I will repeat myself, please provide repro mission and state the version of the game you are using.

  6. #1146
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Centipede View Post
    Depends on your difficulty settings
    So.... what are the default values for each difficulty?

    Last time I changed them on Veteran it was around .7-8 (?) which is too high no matter what and contribute to this aimbot AI feel. As always was.

  7. #1147
    Master Sergeant
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    Please Azzur, create a repro for the behaviour you are observing. This looks like a serious issue.
    VOTE:

    0013952: An AI unit refuses to engage a target or runs far away

    http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=13952

  8. #1148
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonci87 View Post
    Try the same with enemys around
    That's what i did.
    This is an old issue, it was already like this in ArmA2

    ---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Azzur33 View Post
    AI accuracy has been higher lately, again, I guess, some time ago they had difficulties to hit when the enemy was far. I'm not sure. Maybe.

    At 400 meters a rifleman may not see you or try to shoot you back, unless you dance around a while.
    But when they do detect you, it's too often one shot, one hit. That shot may not usually kill you and you have time to try to shoot back .. unless there are more than one lucky-guess-sharpshooter AI.

    At 300 meters you can quite easily hit/kill an enemy if he is standing up and not moving. It's a lot more difficult to hit when he is prone facing you and shooting back.

    Still ...for AI, it seems like the opposite. I dare to say you live longer if you are standing, instead of laying low.

    I did test (at airstrip), 2 AI riflemen 300 meters away, facing you.
    They notice you immediately and start shooting.

    If you stand still, average life expectancy was 15-30 seconds. Results varied a lot, from 10 seconds to 4 minutes 20 seconds

    If you went prone right away, you died in 5-10 seconds. Every time.


    With one AI, the results were more even, but still you had better chances standing still. Well, atleast when prone, you are able to try to shoot and kill the minimal target ..and pray for the lucky shot. Which won't happen, because before you can "zoom" and have a good aim, you are dead.
    Please BIS, double check for AI regressions between this build:
    http://forums.bistudio.com/showthrea...=1#post2489229
    and current beta build.

    Hopefully you'll find some.
    bCombat infantry AI Mod / ArmA 3:
    Official thread: [OPEN BETA] [SP] bCombat infantry AI Mod
    Project page: https://github.com/fabrizioT/bCombat

    bDetect project / ArmA 3:
    Project page: https://github.com/fabrizioT/bdetect_arma3

    Youtube Channel:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/MrFabrizioT

  9. #1149
    Staff Sergeant
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    Quote Originally Posted by klamacz View Post
    Interesting. I will repeat myself, please provide repro mission and state the version of the game you are using.
    Dev version, I tried it few times again with todays build, didn't see much difference between prone and standing this time.

    I didn't think repro helps much in this case. It was so basic 1 (or 2, grouped) AI riflemen against 1 player rifleman at measured distance (300) on the (Stratis) airstrip.
    No waypoints, no obstacles. Aligned and facing eachother.
    Unit skill at half way (editor edit unit), difficulty veteran, enemy AI skill 0.85.

    - And the results varied a lot, maybe too much to draw any conclusions, other that laying low doesn't have any advantages, on the open airstrip.
    That is not exactly a normal game situation.

    http://koti.welho.com/ktiihone/dra/s...one.Stratis.7z

    I would think that it is harder to hit a smaller target, but (on that hard flat surface) AI was as lethal no matter what my stance was.
    Skill settings, personal difficulty settings, I don't know how much effect they have in this. Maybe I should lower them.
    And normally you wouldn't lay on the airstrip receiving bullets.
    Last edited by Azzur33; Oct 8 2013 at 15:48.

  10.   Click here to go to the next Developer post in this thread.   #1150
    Quote Originally Posted by Azzur33 View Post
    Skill settings, personal difficulty settings, I don't know how much effect they have in this. Maybe I should lower them.
    The point relates to the next chunk of work I'd like to invest in the AI. Mr Klamacz is rather tied up with various tasks now but, on the side, he's taking a closer look at the skill configuration and how it really manifests in game.

    The goal will be to overhaul the way configuration options are presented to different groups - players and mission makers - giving us a more predictable test-bed and mission makers a more meaningful (and better described) set of configuration options. I'll share an extract from the initial analysis. Please share any general reactions.

    Work is a bit delayed on this for a few reasons (like TF Radio Protocol, such work requires a cross-departmental task force - UI, Program, QA, Sandbox Design) but the thought is that it will be, in the long run, beneficial to finally lock down these fundamental aspects of AI so that the ongoing tweaks and refinements can be implemented and tested with more confidence. The AI (like some other aspects of the game: video options, etc) is really an incredibly powerful beast, but massively complex to fine-tune. We need to cast a splendid new light on the basic inputs to better unlock the potential of the AI in the wild.


    Best,
    RiE
    Last edited by RoyaltyinExile; Oct 8 2013 at 16:31.
    Arma 3 is a combined arms military game with an infantry focus. Built upon appropriate, useful and engaging elements of simulation, it's an accessible platform for a variety of official and community playable/sandbox content, based on the principles of authenticity, diversity and opportunity.

    Dans son oeil, ciel livide où germe l'ouragan,
    La douceur qui fascine et le plaisir qui tue.

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